BEV Yaris?

[priusnoob]

Do you guys think that say by 2025, Toyota will hopefully have a BEV Yaris? 

This is all we really have from Toyota on BEVs

https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/toyota/35083987.html

I'll probably keep the Prius for a while even though my "needs" are now closer to a Yaris and the Yaris is considerably cheaper on insurance. In the future, I may well buy a Hyundai Ioniq 6 assuming that Toyota doesn't still have a viable BEV. If the Yaris could be electrified and have 200 miles of range, I may well then buy that car. I imagine that's ultimately probably doable given that the VW e up gets 160 miles of range and it's similar in size to the Toyota Aygo

Anyway, tl:dr, do you think Toyota will eventually release a BEV of the Yaris, and if they don't, what car would you buy instead? (Assuming you'd be in the market for a BEV) 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Toyota already has two BEV's on sale in China. The BZ4 will begin production next year and other models under the BZ name (which seems to be their title for BEV vehicles - similar to Ioniq and ID series) will follow so doubt there will be an electric vehicle under the Yaris brand.

As regards the e-Up, Skoda and Seat has ceased production of their equivalents, and VW has long been monitoring the profitablity of the whole Up range. Conceivably they may pull out of this sector as have PSA and Ford.

In the UK, new hybrids will still be available for sale until 2035.

[flash22]

There are 7 cars on the EV platform the gen4 Yaris is on the new hybrid driveline (3 Cyl 1.5l, newer gen gearbox/motor/inverter and a lithium pack)

BEV is still in its early development imo the Battery technology isn't there yet - real world 250+ miles on a full charge will be the turning point

 

The Corsa-e has been out a while now (it's a Peugeot 208- shock, horror) that has a real world range of 120-150 miles per charge

The new toyota BEV is due 2022 probably in japan at first (e-TGNA platform) its called the bx4X (Subaru Solterre) and is C-HR sized

[priusnoob]

1 hour ago, flash22 said:

There are 7 cars on the EV platform the gen4 Yaris is on the new hybrid driveline (3 Cyl 1.5l, newer gen gearbox/motor/inverter and a lithium pack)

BEV is still in its early development imo the battery technology isn't there yet - real world 250+ miles on a full charge will be the turning point

 

The Corsa-e has been out a while now (it's a Peugeot 208- shock, horror) that has a real world range of 120-150 miles per charge

The new toyota BEV is due 2022 probably in japan at first (e-TGNA platform) its called the bx4X (Subaru Solterre) and is C-HR sized

Real world 250+ would definitely be a turning point especially for those who have to go up and down the country every so often, though as I'm buying a house with a driveway, that's less of an issue for me

[priusnoob]

1 hour ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Toyota already has two BEV's on sale in China. The BZ4 will begin production next year and other models under the BZ name (which seems to be their title for BEV vehicles - similar to Ioniq and ID series) will follow so doubt there will be an electric vehicle under the Yaris brand.

As regards the e-Up, Skoda and Seat has ceased production of their equivalents, and VW has long been monitoring the profitablity of the whole Up range. Conceivably they may pull out of this sector as have PSA and Ford.

In the UK, new hybrids will still be available for sale until 2035.

Thanks. Here's hoping that at the very least, Toyota release a BZ vehicle that's roughly equivalent to the Yaris in both size, efficiency, and low insurance costs. The Aygo is even better in that regard but has a tiny boot space. 

Obviously, the BEVs will be far more reviving than current ICE cars but there's variations of efficiency within BEVs too

Ie : miles per KwH instead of mpg

https://www.carwow.co.uk/blog/most-efficient-electric-cars#gref

[Cyker]

I hope so - I really really want a Yarisy BEV, but it all depends on Battery tech - I for one wouldn't even consider buying an EV that can't do 300+ miles at 70mph, but with the current state of batteries there is no possible way you could fit enough batteries into a Yaris to get even close to that without massively compromising the interior or giving it a 3 inch lift 😄

Heck, right now I think there are maybe 3 that can do that in the real world, and none them are south of £40k and they're all giant land boats.

In fact, partly because Jemca messed up my unreliable money pit petrol Yaris (Which I intensely hated anyway - I will never forgive Sadiq Khan for making me get rid of my Mk1 D4D with his stupid ULEZ!! 😭), and partly because the industry is moving toward short-ranged giant EV land boats instead of small normal-ranged ones (I refuse to call any vehicle that can only do 150-200 miles 'long range'!), I gave up waiting for such an EV and just blew all the money I was saving for one on a Mk4 Yaris instead!

Still slightly in shock as I have a rule about buying new cars (i.e. don't), but it helps that it is a damned good car - They fixed everything I hated about the Mk3 Yaris' driving dynamics and made it genuinely efficient - With the Mk3 you had to drive it efficiently or it'd get worse mileage than the non-hybrid model, but this one I've been hooning around like I used to in my old D4D and it's still reporting 68mpg! It's such a joy - I've really missed being able to just drive around for fun without worrying about fuel usage!

The problem with the EV industry at the moment is they think having chargers everywhere can compensate for a small Battery, but I don't want that - It needlessly increases journey times and worse, with the sharply increasing price of public chargers (I saw one that was 70p/kWh at a services!!! WTF?!) will be expensive, and this is price without Tax! If they tax public charging like they do fuel at current prices, the p/mile will be worse than petrol or diesel!

I think the only way EVs will make any financial sense is if you can home charge and get to 99% of your regular destinations and back on the car's capacity. If you only public charge, they are already more expensive to run than my old Yaris D4D used to be! (But to be fair that car is an outlier - I've never owned another car that could do 800 miles on 40 litres of diesel! Even my Mk4 can't get close to that on the motorway! Not far off in town and A-roads tho'!)

[flash22]

Jemica - Enough said, especially Bromley and Croydon 🤬

[Cyker]

Yeah, they really don't give a flying one, more interested in covering their backsides than actual good customer service.

Unfortunately they are the closest dealer to me, but at this point I'm seriously considering driving out of my way to the Hills one from now on just because they've been so awful!

That's one thing I miss on this forum - The dealer rankings; I bet PartsKing misses it too - His dealership was always #1!!! 😄 (And for good reason I might add!)

 

But yeah, I reckon we're a good 10-years from decent EV's. Who knows, maybe we'll have Mr Fusion by then, and will get 1000 miles of range from stale beer and a banana skin! 😄

[MikeSh]

A PHEV Yaris would be perfect for us.

We had a 300 mile EV but it was ridiculously expensive and public charging is still a mess. So it was only 'good' for a 120ish miles each way from home - anything longer was just hard work and uncertainty. The EVangelists can live with that, enjoy it even, but it's not for ordinary folk.

With a PHEV most of our miles would be home-charged EV and the occasional longer trips topped up with petrol if there wasn't a public charger readily available.

But there are no Yaris size PHEVs, so I got a simple hybrid.

[flash22]

If your interested in the subject, check out EVM on YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCigsK5EITQdgrY6f5qwRxkw

[Mike J.]

1 hour ago, MikeSh said:

But there are no Yaris size PHEVs .....

Yes there is ......

I would have bought a Yaris PHEV, but obviously it didn't exist. So I went for the best city car - the BMW i3 with range extender. Better performance, head lights and turning circle than the Yaris hybrid. Pre-conditioning is great, plus the 1/3rd the cost of 'fuel'. With the internal petrol generator, it is like a PHEV. Downsides: reliability and instability during high crosswinds when compared to the Yaris.  

[MikeSh]

55 minutes ago, Mike J. said:

BMW i3 with range extender.

LOL. We looked at that about 5 years ago. Didn't go there for several reasons, one being the stupid rear doors.

But you're right it's almost Yaris size - still a bit larger.

The range extender is iffy for us. Only about 80 miles per fill, so not much less inconvenient than charging. And they don't offer it in the UK anymore, so I'd be looking at running a second-hand BMW out of warranty 😗

[priusnoob]

16 hours ago, Cyker said:

I hope so - I really really want a Yarisy BEV, but it all depends on battery tech - I for one wouldn't even consider buying an EV that can't do 300+ miles at 70mph, but with the current state of batteries there is no possible way you could fit enough batteries into a Yaris to get even close to that without massively compromising the interior or giving it a 3 inch lift 😄

Heck, right now I think there are maybe 3 that can do that in the real world, and none them are south of £40k and they're all giant land boats.

In fact, partly because Jemca messed up my unreliable money pit petrol Yaris (Which I intensely hated anyway - I will never forgive Sadiq Khan for making me get rid of my Mk1 D4D with his stupid ULEZ!! 😭), and partly because the industry is moving toward short-ranged giant EV land boats instead of small normal-ranged ones (I refuse to call any vehicle that can only do 150-200 miles 'long range'!), I gave up waiting for such an EV and just blew all the money I was saving for one on a Mk4 Yaris instead!

Still slightly in shock as I have a rule about buying new cars (i.e. don't), but it helps that it is a damned good car - They fixed everything I hated about the Mk3 Yaris' driving dynamics and made it genuinely efficient - With the Mk3 you had to drive it efficiently or it'd get worse mileage than the non-hybrid model, but this one I've been hooning around like I used to in my old D4D and it's still reporting 68mpg! It's such a joy - I've really missed being able to just drive around for fun without worrying about fuel usage!

The problem with the EV industry at the moment is they think having chargers everywhere can compensate for a small battery, but I don't want that - It needlessly increases journey times and worse, with the sharply increasing price of public chargers (I saw one that was 70p/kWh at a services!!! WTF?!) will be expensive, and this is price without Tax! If they tax public charging like they do fuel at current prices, the p/mile will be worse than petrol or diesel!

I think the only way EVs will make any financial sense is if you can home charge and get to 99% of your regular destinations and back on the car's capacity. If you only public charge, they are already more expensive to run than my old Yaris D4D used to be! (But to be fair that car is an outlier - I've never owned another car that could do 800 miles on 40 litres of diesel! Even my Mk4 can't get close to that on the motorway! Not far off in town and A-roads tho'!)

I've noticed that too. Bigger cars = cram a bigger Battery. 

 

Solid state batteries will hopefully mean that smaller cars like the Yaris can get a decent range too

[priusnoob]

12 hours ago, MikeSh said:

A PHEV Yaris would be perfect for us.

We had a 300 mile EV but it was ridiculously expensive and public charging is still a mess. So it was only 'good' for a 120ish miles each way from home - anything longer was just hard work and uncertainty. The EVangelists can live with that, enjoy it even, but it's not for ordinary folk.

With a PHEV most of our miles would be home-charged EV and the occasional longer trips topped up with petrol if there wasn't a public charger readily available.

But there are no Yaris size PHEVs, so I got a simple hybrid.

Understood. I think the biggy is also that a lot of people live in terraced houses, so parking is an issue. It'll be less of an issue for me once I buy my house as it has a driveway 

 

This company installs EV charging for terraced houses too

 

https://green-mole.co.uk/car-charging-points-terraced-houses/

This is reasonable 

https://www.carwow.co.uk/news/4681/hyundai-ioniq-6-ev-electric-car-price-specs-release-date#gref

 

But again, not a Toyota and Hyundai's got a lot better over the years 

[TonyHSD]

There are plenty of small ev cars now that can do 100+ miles range, although may be ok for most town drivers it’s  not enough to make you feel comfortable if you don’t own driveway with own charger, plus  inconvenience of having to plug your car 3-4 times a week. There are still plenty of free public chargers too. My gf bought a New Ionic electric, lol what a wonderful car and she had 1400 miles done in 7 weeks she hasn’t spent even a penny on electricity to date, she charge at her place that has free charger for the residents, the places she goes also has one and she even done a 400 miles trip to Wells and back, again free, that’s unbelievable. Her dashboard shows 5.2miles per kw/h, or something like that which seems to be a good number, I can do perhaps better but that’s another matter 🙂. Electric cars are great but the issue is that if you need a range you need a large car with large Battery and large wallet 😉., where small standard car like the Yaris hybrid you can drive with 10 ltr of fuel in, or fill up and go for 400+ miles without worrying about refuelling again. 

[flash22]

13 hours ago, Mike J. said:

Yes there is ......

I would have bought a Yaris PHEV, but obviously it didn't exist. So I went for the best city car - the BMW i3 with range extender. Better performance, head lights and turning circle than the Yaris hybrid. Pre-conditioning is great, plus the 1/3rd the cost of 'fuel'. With the internal petrol generator, it is like a PHEV. Downsides: reliability and instability during high crosswinds when compared to the Yaris.  

Insurance is a killer on the i3 - Group 26-29 vs the yaris hybrid being Group 12-14

[Mike J.]

1 hour ago, flash22 said:

Insurance is a killer on the i3 - Group 26-29 vs the yaris hybrid being Group 12-14

My insurance went up from £210 (Yaris) to £250 (i3) a year. If you have a non-zero VED Yaris, you are quids in.

[flash22]

When i got a quote on a 1 year old I3 it was nearly triple what i was paying on my previous car (full no claims), that's what you get for living in the south-east

just an example, an 18 year old just passed their test, 1.0 car £1.8k to 4.4k on their own policy

 

My yaris is a 2016 - Zero VED and congestion charge exempt (apart from the registration fee)

[priusnoob]

6 hours ago, flash22 said:

Insurance is a killer on the i3 - Group 26-29 vs the yaris hybrid being Group 12-14

Yup. This is one of the biggies. At least the Hyundai is only £70 more expensive than the Yaris for me. Interestingly enough, the VW e up cost even more despite being in a lower insurance group. 

[priusnoob]

5 hours ago, flash22 said:

When i got a quote on a 1 year old I3 it was nearly triple what i was paying on my previous car (full no claims), that's what you get for living in the south-east

just an example, an 18 year old just passed their test, 1.0 car £1.8k to 4.4k on their own policy

 

My yaris is a 2016 - Zero VED and congestion charge exempt (apart from the registration fee)

I'm paying £1200 for the Prius. I don't live in the SE but I do live close to a city so swings and roundabouts. 

[Cyker]

Insurance group numbers are virtually meaningless - My old Mk1 D4D was the same to insure as a 1.8 Celica! Where you live is the biggest factor (Here - £1000, my brother, £150 - Everything else the same!).

EV's are getting shafted for insurance at the moment tho' - They are way more expensive than they should be; I assume insurance companies thing the owners are saving so much money on running costs that they want some of it 

I did have a laugh when I was buying my Mk4 tho - Toyota automatically generated a quote to go with the 3-day driveaway insurance, and they came up with £1200!! I was like, wat...

Ended up going with a certain amused agreeable canine company for £480, which was pretty good since the non-crazy averages were around £600.

A good tip to save money on insurance, other than playing them off against each other, is to find as many old ladies as you can who don't drive much and have clean licences, and put them on your insurance as named drivers. My mum and my mate's mum are saving me £150, even tho' they've never even touched the car 

I also tried putting my dad on but it went up by £50...

 

@TonyHSD - 5 miles/kWh is very good - Most EVs are in the mid-high 3's, which actually puts them on par with a good diesel (Or my Mk4!) for running costs if a public charger is used! Your GF is definitely doing the EV thing right! 

That is one of the big problems with EV's if you're buying it to save money - You HAVE to be able to charge it at home or you'll never make back the difference of just buying a second-hand dino juice car.

It does seem Hyundai/Kia have found the secret of an efficient EV drivetrain - Their cars consistently get more miles per kWh out of the Battery than anyone elses, even Tesla!

[Mike J.]

11 minutes ago, Cyker said:

It does seem Hyundai/Kia have found the secret of an efficient EV drivetrain - Their cars consistently get more miles per kWh out of the battery than anyone elses, even Tesla!

It seems Teslas are far better, check out US mpge figures here. The i3 is still good due to low weight.

[MikeSh]

1 hour ago, Mike J. said:

It seems Teslas are far better, check out US mpge figures here.

But then other (UK) results have shown the Kona and Niro being better than Teslas.

I'd say they are probably similar and class leading, but will depend on the actual usage.

On that note I will add that with EVs the range/'mpx'/whatever varies far more with the use profile than with ICE. In particular the regenerative braking is a big factor which you get lots of in urban driving and sod all on the motorway. It's a new game for most people.

[Cyker]

2 hours ago, Mike J. said:

It seems Teslas are far better, check out US mpge figures here. The i3 is still good due to low weight.

Those are just the official BS test figures; Take with much salt. Probably cheating with regen to get the figures up.

In real life (Or at least the many youtube videos I've watched ) where regen isn't a factor, the Hyundai and Kia EVs seem to be much better at getting into and staying in the 4-5mile/kWh zone than the Teslas do.

Tesla have been getting better; The Model 3 in particular - It's partly because the Tesla were mainly using AC induction motors before, whereas Hyundai and Kia were using the much more efficient permanent magnet motor type (As does Toyota!), but I believe Tesla have also switched to permanent magnet motors in the Model 3 (IIRC it has both types if you go dual motor).

Teslas also have a handicap because they seem to have much more base-line power draw - I suspect the computer systems and HVAC stuff on them use more power than most other manufacturers.

 

[TonyHSD]

Thanks, yes she is doing alright although there is a space for improvement. When she had the car the first few weeks was cold and the dash was showing 3.8m per kw/h then went up to 5.2 m per kw/h and been consistently there. She uses the car almost entirely for London driving in rush hour both mornings and evenings. She is lucky as she pays nothing for charging, her apartments place has free residents charger and that makes a big difference. The car currently shows 193 miles with 100% Battery. I think this ionic is one of the best simple Ev’s currently on the market. Has great efficiency, average purchase price of £30 k, it’s big enough for family use , same as Prius and its well made, not the best looking exterior but really good interior indeed, and feels so much like Toyota product, from the unlocking the doors and getting into it, to push the start button and select drive, pretty much same as my Auris, the first few meters of driving are also similar., then I wait to hear the ice kicks in but nope, nothing the car accelerates and silence remains ⚡️🚗🔋. If it was 100 miles more range at £30k price with unlimited mileage and 5 years warranty just one more for myself would have been on order of yet but the 190 on dash range it’s simply not enough for me . My last night shift back home with 260 miles done, even Tesla will struggle to do it. 👍 Toyota hybrids are best for me at the moment.