Paddle shifts

[FiestaRed]

I had a test drive in a Corolla this morning and the car had paddle shifts behind the steering wheel. Looking at the specs on the main Toyota website, I think they're only available with a 2.0 litre engine. I had requested a test drive in a 1.8 litre car.

I'm beginning to think the dealer sent me out in a 2.0 litre car now. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Luke717]

47 minutes ago, FiestaRed said:

I had a test drive in a Corolla this morning and the car had paddle shifts behind the steering wheel. Looking at the specs on the main Toyota website, I think they're only available with a 2.0 litre engine. I had requested a test drive in a 1.8 litre car.

I'm beginning to think the dealer sent me out in a 2.0 litre car now. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

It would be the 2.0, Mike - only that engine config comes with steering wheel paddles.

I have the 1.8 engine in an Excel hatchback. In my research before buying this car a year ago, I test drove both. You can get a bit more welly accelerating in the 2.0 and it can make a difference when getting past a truck, say, in a hurry. For me, that wasn't of much interest as a reason to go for the slightly bigger engine that added £1200 to the car price. I like the 1.8 - plenty of horses for my use and terrific fuel economy.

[FiestaRed]

Thanks for the reply Neville, really appreciate the help.

Apart from the paddles, is there any other visual way to see which engine a car has please? I think I'd be a bit unhappy if it was a 2.0 litre engine I had tested thinking it was the 1.8 litre and when the 1.8 car I'd ordered came and I found it 'sluggish'.

[Luke717]

8 minutes ago, FiestaRed said:

Apart from the paddles, is there any other visual way to see which engine a car has please?

Yes, the hatchback with a 2.0 engine has fake exhaust tips at the back. The 1.8 doesn't. Not sure but I believe it's the same with the TS as well.

[FiestaRed]

Brilliant Neville, thank you. That's something I should be able to spot and will look out for if I go for another test drive in a '1.8 litre'.

[Trewithy]

Also the 2.0 has a smaller boot space due to the raised floor in the boot to accommodate the 12 volt Battery as there is not enough room under the bonnet with the 2 litre engine.

[Roy124]

But my floor in a 1.8 is raised.  I have a spare wheel so it might be part of that fit.  The Battery for the 2.0 is indeed in the boot. Lift the bonnet; if there is a Battery it's a 2.0.

As for overtaking a truck, the first time I tried it in the demo car I was pushing 80 before I realised.  Even in Eco mode the 1.8 is quite happy at 4,000 revs and Battery to boot. Still goes like the proverbial. 

[TonyHSD]

Another difference to spot is in the gear levers, the 1.8 has a B mode where the 2.0 has an S mode with +&- for manual shifting via gear knob or steering wheel paddles. 

[Roy124]

Tony, what is the function of the paddles?  I have driven a Bentley and Lamborghini which both had paddles though I could see little benefit in the Bentley. 

In a car with CVT, no gears to change down. 

[TonyHSD]

3 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

Tony, what is the function of the paddles?  I have driven a Bentley and Lamborghini which both had paddles though I could see little benefit in the Bentley. 

In a car with CVT, no gears to change down. 

These are here for regenerative braking instead of the B mode, and fake sense of manual gear change while under acceleration, although it will be difficult to sense anything as there are no gears at all. I think B mode set up on 1.8 makes a lot more sense. 👍

[Roy124]

Kidology rather than real function and a chance to market the higher spec (profit).

When we bought our Corolla it was from a clean sheet and most gadgets were novel.  The salesman matched the high spec 2005 car for a near spec 2020 Corolla that met our price spec too.  The only thing he pushed was a red car in the show room in January but was happy to accept a 1st March delivery.

[Luke717]

I can't really see the point of gear-shifting paddles on a CVT transmission in a hybrid car. What am I missing?

[TonyHSD]

36 minutes ago, Luke717 said:

I can't really see the point of gear-shifting paddles on a CVT transmission in a hybrid car. What am I missing?

When you drive downhill and you want to use engine brake you can flip to B on your car but the 2.0 owners can switch to S on the gear knob and use the paddles to slow down with regenerative braking and add some juice to the Battery, same with most electric cars. I never try myself and can’t comment how works but the B mode on the 1.8 version is useful. 

[Roy124]

Quite, I drove two conventional automatics over 150 000 miles and used the ability to downshift on only one particular hill.  The rest of the time I was content to let the car sort it out. 

[FiestaRed]

39 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

When you drive downhill and you want to use engine brake you can flip to B on your car but the 2.0 owners can switch to S on the gear knob and use the paddles to slow down with regenerative braking and add some juice to the battery, same with most electric cars. I never try myself and can’t comment how works but the B mode on the 1.8 version is useful. 

Today was my first drive in an automatic Tony, when you mention 'flip to B' is that something you can do as you're driving? I didn't realise that you could move the lever, I thought once it was in drive it stayed there until you parked up.

[Catlover]

As Tony said B is used for going downhill, it’s not for general braking. And Yes you can select or deselect B while you are moving.  Rounfd the part of Cheshire not many hills, but get round Macclesfield and I went down a hill with B assisting with braking (you probably still be using foot brake). There was a big artic in front of me and he had to stop as his brakes were smoking, the smell was horrible.

In an earlier post, after your test drive, you mentioned the drive was most relaxing. That’s how I find driving the Prius, sooooo relaxing.

[PeteB]

B mode is mainly there to give extra control when descending hills, but will usually give worse fuel consumption because it causes the engine to create extra drag by compression in the cylinders without adding any fuel.  Because of this, there's less energy left to turn the Motor/Generator so less energy goes into the Battery.  Back in the early Prius days some owners with electrics backgrounds connected am ammeter to the car and proved it.  B Mode only makes a difference when decelerating and you'd have to use it a lot to see a measurable difference in mpg.

In 19 years and over 330,000 miles in Hybrids, I've only found B mode genuinely useful a handful of times on holidays in places like Scotland, Devon and Isle of Man on very long, very steep hills after the HV Battery had 'maxed out' (that is reached the charge state that Toyota has set as an absolute maximum [100% of the Battery gauge, about 80% true]).  This condition only occurs some time after the 8th bar lights up on the gauge.  The only other very rare time has been in snow/ice to help give more controlled braking. 

I believe (but am not 100% certain) S-mode also adversely affects economy, but the level of braking can be varied by selecting a different 'gear'.  Unlike B Mode it also makes an apparent difference when cruising or accelerating very gently by artificially changing the engine revs, but once you give it some welly the CVT takes over regardless of which 'gear' is selected.  Apart from a brief spell of experimenting, I've never yet found a use for S Mode, but haven't driven on big enough hills to max out the battery in a car equipped with S Mode.

[TonyHSD]

Same here, I can use B mode every day since I live at the bottom of a long downhill maxing out the Battery is something normal to me and happens on daily basis, however I rarely use B mode, most of the time I correct my slowing down with the brake pedal. What I noticed though is that if you let the car coast downhill without touching any pedals the car will roll freely with very little regenerative braking and will accelerate but if you use the brakes even just for a few seconds and then release the car will continue to roll but with slightly higher regenerative braking (more resistance from the motor-generator) and the car will keep more steady speed, does anyone else noticed something similar ? 

[Trewithy]

I have also noticed that when descending a long hill whilst in Cruise Control the car will auto apply B mode to stop the car running away and keep it near the set speed.

[Luke717]

11 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

When you drive downhill and you want to use engine brake you can flip to B on your car but the 2.0 owners can switch to S on the gear knob and use the paddles to slow down with regenerative braking and add some juice to the battery, same with most electric cars. I never try myself and can’t comment how works but the B mode on the 1.8 version is useful. 

Yes, I can do exactly that with the B gear selection in the 1.8: regenerative engine-braking as you descend a hill that also charges the Battery. A very handy feature. 

[Luke717]

10 hours ago, PeteB said:

B mode is mainly there to give extra control when descending hills, but will usually give worse fuel consumption because it causes the engine to create extra drag by compression in the cylinders without adding any fuel.  Because of this, there's less energy left to turn the Motor/Generator so less energy goes into the battery.

According to the manual for my 2020 Corolla (the 668-page PDF you download from Toyota), the B gear selector and the S paddle option perform the same function. From page 87 in the manual:

Quote

 

Regenerative braking

In the following situations, kinetic energy is converted to electric energy and deceleration force can be obtained in conjunction with the recharging of the hybrid battery (traction battery).

Vehicles without paddle shift switches:

• The accelerator pedal is released while driving with the shift lever in D or B.

Vehicles with paddle shift switches:

• The accelerator pedal is released while driving with the shift lever in D or S.

Vehicles without paddle shift switches:

• The brake pedal is depressed while driving with the shift lever in D or B.

Vehicles with paddle shift switches:

• The brake pedal is depressed while driving with the shift lever in D or S.

 

 

[TonyHSD]

2 hours ago, Luke717 said:

According to the manual for my 2020 Corolla (the 668-page PDF you download from Toyota), the B gear selector and the S paddle option perform the same function. From page 87 in the manual:

 

Thanks for sharing, I have non of the Corollas variants and know about these from the forum. It seems like Corolla 2.0 has all that toys to be more appealing to the vag and other European cars customers, many new comers to the Toyota hybrids magic will like these “extras” and so here we have it. 🙂 One think that I personally don’t like in Corolla is the standard gear knob, anyone that has tried Prius will know how much nicer is to use Prius style gear change over the conventional selector but again it needs to be like a golf and ironically vag went Toyota way with ultra small gear selectors, smaller and funnier than in a Prius. 

[Roy124]

Personally I don't mind the 1.8 gear stick having come from Mercedes and Fords.  You refer to hybrid magic, indeed there are many interesting bells and whistles but there must be a limit to how many novel items you can throw at new to Toyota drivers.  After 6,000 miles I still have difficulty with lights and wipers; so much is automatic that you do not learn the manual controls.  I hardly use any of the left hand button controls with the exception of Volume.

I find the voice command to be unpredictable and usually useless.  It rarely finds a phone number and becomes as distracting as fiddling with a handset.  Trying to set a destination by voice is frustrating.  Like 'send to car' several of these bells don't whistle.

[Gray86]

On 6/13/2021 at 4:46 PM, Luke717 said:

Yes, the hatchback with a 2.0 engine has fake exhaust tips at the back. The 1.8 doesn't. Not sure but I believe it's the same with the TS as well.

The TS has real exhaust tips on the 2.0 (a twin exhaust too!) 

[Luke717]

7 hours ago, Roy124 said:

I find the voice command to be unpredictable and usually useless.  It rarely finds a phone number and becomes as distracting as fiddling with a handset.  Trying to set a destination by voice is frustrating.  Like 'send to car' several of these bells don't whistle.

It is extremely user unfriendly, in my view. It's why I use Android Auto almost exclusively, a tool that's intuitive, intelligent, reactive to contemporary English in conversational mode. I'm so accustomed to interacting with the Google AI that rarely do I get a response or action that's way off mark.

Still, I recognise that such interaction is not everyone's cup of tea. Yet what I hear most from people I know who do use AA is how much better it is than a given manufacturer's in-car tech. Therein lies a problem for auto manufacturers - the ones who don't have plans to up their game and offer a tool that's actually fit for purpose.