toyota + others - watchdog - car theft keyless entry

[PAISLEY1903]

Does anyone know about the Toyota RAV4 2021 Excel for key security.

Toyota was one of few who refused to comment.

Just wondered if anyone had any information - get my car in September 🙂

[Rosgoe]

As far as I am aware the key fob on the rav4 goes into sleep mode when inactive which should deter any would be thief from obtaining the transmitted code from being intercepted.

It’s the same with the corolla except you have to disable the key fob manually. I assume watchdog were not aware that this can be done.

I expect Toyota did not comment as they do not want any bad publicity which is understandable. If you are worried get a Faraday pouch.

[PeteB]

For a few years now I've got into the habit of putting my key to sleep (called "Battery saver mode" in the manuals) whenever I'm at home (including the spare key), or if I'm somewhere like a restaurant where the same trick could be used.

To do this, press and hold the lock key, at the same time press the unlock key twice, fairly quickly.  The little red light on the key will do 2 double flashes if it's worked.

Pressing any button on the ley wakes it up, so I just got used to unlocking with the remote button when I go back to the car.

That said, I'm just being careful, I've never heard of a Prius, Corolla, RAV4 etc being stolen this way, but a £90,000 Range River was taken from my area not so long ago.  The news article said the owner claimed the key was in a Faraday pouch, so maybe it was faulty one, maybe it was one where you have to use a particular section of the pouch.  Maybe there was an active spare key in the house.

[Avalon]

Sleep mode does nothing if the person with the transmitter booster is walking behind you in a car park etc. It’s a token mitigation for a very specific piece of the threat model (keys stationary eg kitchen table overnight). You either disable keyless and are then immune from relay but can still be hit with replay attacks (it’s under £50 and pretty easy to build a replay kit, it’s north of 10K for a relay kit last I looked), or you invest in a Faraday pouch and/or physical security. Range Rovers with steering locks are a common site in some areas for a reason.

[philip42h]

In my version of the owner's manual page 207 states:

Quote

Battery-saving function (vehicles with entry function)
The battery-saving function will be activated in order to prevent the electronic key battery and the 12-volt battery from being discharged while the vehicle is not in operation for a long time.

In the following situations, the smart entry & start system may take some time to unlock the doors.

• The electronic key has been left in an area of approximately 2 m (6 ft.) of the outside of the vehicle for 10 minutes or longer.
• ...

From which I infer that if I take the key indoors, put it down and leave it alone, it will go into Battery saving mode after 10 minutes, stopping the remote fob from sending or receiving signals. Picking it up and walking to the car wakes it up again and it works 'normally'. I could, of course, be misreading the manual ... 😉

The reason that Toyota won't answer the BBC's rather stupid question is that the behaviour will vary depending on the model and year, and which third party remote control kit is being used. It may sound like a simple question but there certainly isn't a simple answer ...

[Rosgoe]

17 hours ago, Rosgoe said:

As far as I am aware the key fob on the rav4 goes into sleep mode when inactive which should deter any would be thief from obtaining the transmitted code from being intercepted.

It’s the same with the corolla except you have to disable the key fob manually. I assume watchdog were not aware that this can be done.

I expect Toyota did not comment as they do not want any bad publicity which is understandable. If you are worried get a faraday pouch.

 

17 hours ago, Rosgoe said:

As far as I am aware the key fob on the rav4 goes into sleep mode when inactive which should deter any would be thief from obtaining the transmitted code from being intercepted.

It’s the same with the corolla except you have to disable the key fob manually. I assume watchdog were not aware that this can be done.

I expect Toyota did not comment as they do not want any bad publicity which is understandable. If you are worried get a faraday pouch.

I have sat in my car locked the doors then put the remote into Battery saving mode I then tried to start the car and the display said “key not detected “ so I assume by this that the key is not transmitting a signal so I can’t see how a thief would be able to obtain the transmitted data. Now I don’t know with the rav4 if when you pick up the key does it start transmitting straight away or does it start when you approach the vehicle I would imagine that it is the latter.

 

[PeteB]

Early versions of the RAV4.5 (2019 onwards) didn't do the automatic sleep mode (mine doesn't), I think that was introduced about a year later.  From what I've read, those that work this way reactivate as soon as the key is moved, so if you're walking around with it in your pocket it probably won't go to sleep.

[Rosgoe]

8 minutes ago, PeteB said:

Early versions of the RAV4.5 (2019 onwards) didn't do the automatic sleep mode (mine doesn't), I think that was introduced about a year later.  From what I've read, those that work this way reactivate as soon as the key is moved, so if you're walking around with it in your pocket it probably won't go to sleep.

I have researched this on google and it seems that the rav4 is on the top 10 lists of vehicles that are easy to steal via the transmitted data from the key with the equipment that the scum bags use. So I guess best to put the key in a Faraday pouch.

 

[ernieb]

+1, Faraday pouch, easy and works.

[Rigsby]

I picked my new Dynamic up a couple of weeks ago, the new brochure states that “smart keys” have motion detection, so they stop transmitting a signal when idle.