Self-Charing hybrid MPG question

[lmv80]

Hi everyone, 

I’m thinking of changing my my petrol car (Seat Leon estate FS 2.0) to a self charging hybrid, smaller engine size. I cannot get a plug in, as I have no drive and park on the road. 

I mostly use my car for general stuff and commuting to work, some of which is on a dual carriageway. 

I'm wondering if this is the right move, or just as economical to get a petrol hatchback. I’m spending about £150+ on fuel alone, per month. For a 15 mile round trip to work 5 days a week and then a bit of shopping at the weekend, which is no more than about 8 miles in total. I sometimes, maybe once a month go a bit further afield, but about 30 miles or so. My car is averaging 42MPG. 

The biggest thing that I’m wondering is about the MPG on a self charging hybrid and I hope someone can help, I may be getting the wrong end of the stick or might just be stupid. Hah! 

Let’s say, the car is advertised at 40MPG, is that number for the miles it would do on average, regardless of petrol / electric, because it’s charging the Battery, or is this only for the miles that the car does when the petrol is engaged (so in effect the electric miles are not counted within that)? 

Could anyone shed some light on this?  As I said, i’m probably being stupid. 

[Yugguy1970]

I was reading some reviews of the RAV4 I've ordered and they were talking about an urban mpg of nearly 100mpg.

I also remember when I had a Prius about 13 years ago from my work for a week, it was not that good mpg when over 50mph because the engine was always running.

But then I read that the modern Toyota hybrids are much much better and this matches with what I found when test driving both a Corolla and a RAV4, at 60mlh the engine was either off or just idling.

Also I would recommend going for the 2.0 not the 1.8.  The quoted mpg is pretty similar because, like in normal ice engines, a more powerful engine doesn't have to work as hard so it almost evens out.

[Avalon]

Welcome to the forum 🙂

MPG is an irrelevant measure of cost, it’s distance and fuel, the relevant cost measure is cost per mile, that breaks down into 5 main areas: fuel, maintenance (servicing, repairs, tyres etc.), taxation/charges (VED, congestion charges etc), insurance and depreciation. You also have to deal with finance cost if not buying outright, but let’s keep it simple.

First up your numbers really don’t make any sense, is the 42mpg an actual calculated mpg or what the computer tells you? You say 5 days at 15 miles round trip for commuting, that’s 75 miles a week or 300ish per month. You have a 55L tank and are booked at 433 mile range, so your shopping trips and once a month run are adding upto an extra 566 miles somewhere.  You’re also doing over two full tanks, which isn’t really that much to begin with. If the objective here is to save money, you will have to likely do decades of trouble free motoring to offset the cost to change cars, that’s why marketing and sales people focus on mpg, because it’s both irrelevant and people buy into it without thinking.

[Catlover]

Your first assumption is right. If it does 40 mpg that’s the total molrpes on petrol and electric. With a CH-R I would expect over 60mpg in the summer and about 8 mpg less in the winter. That’s because the computer looks after the petrol engine by turning it on to keep engine heat optimum ie you don’t want a cold engine. The computer does all the thinking, you just drive it.

[philip42h]

20 hours ago, lmv80 said:

Let’s say, the car is advertised at 40MPG, is that number for the miles it would do on average, regardless of petrol / electric, because it’s charging the battery, or is this only for the miles that the car does when the petrol is engaged (so in effect the electric miles are not counted within that)?

The claimed WLTP figure is a pretty good indication of the total miles you'll get to the gallon of fuel. The fact that it is a hybrid is pretty irrelevant - all the 'energy' comes from burning fuel and whether the Battery is being charged via kinetic energy recovery or directly in "self charging" mode makes little odds - the overall objective is to eek the most out of the fuel that you burn.

[TonyHSD]

Hi,

Toyota self charging hybrids are the most sensible choice for buying a new car for most people currently  These cars are basically same as standard petrol cars but with modern and efficient engines and the best stop-start technology that also can help propel the car on electric power alone for a short distance, but that is not the goal here. , the whole point of the hybrid system is to help the ice (engine) work at optimum performance and efficiency and recover energy from regenerative braking and store it in relatively small traction Battery ready for good use afterwards, something usually lost in a form of heat and dust in all standard cars. The mpg figures you are going to get are total from your driving, you don’t need to do anything else other than just fill up with petrol and drive. The other benefit of the Toyota hybrid system over petrol or diesel powered cars is that Toyota drives and feels like full electric car but actually been fossil fuel one, maintenance cost like these are cheaper than standard cars, last longer and easier for diy work too. All that benefits above make buying a hybrid over standard car right move indeed, let say it that way: the hybrids are the evolution of the fossil fuel cars and the smart move today’s, the electric and hydrogen fuel cell are the cars of tomorrow. Toyota Corolla TS 1.8 can be the ideal car for your needs.
Good luck  👍

[Mikw]

I have just returned from a 70 mile round trip, in several chunks. A mixture of round town, A and B roads and a bit of motorway.

My trip computer displayed 79 MPG in my Yaris when i got home.

Hybrids DO work.

[AndyRC]

On 7/11/2021 at 4:00 PM, philip42h said:

The claimed WLTP figure is a pretty good indication of the total miles you'll get to the gallon of fuel. The fact that it is a hybrid is pretty irrelevant - all the 'energy' comes from burning fuel and whether the battery is being charged via kinetic energy recovery or directly in "self charging" mode makes little odds - the overall objective is to eek the most out of the fuel that you burn.

The WLTP is not necessarily that accurate for Plug In Hybrid vehicles as many are now capable of completing the majority of the test cycle on electric power and only needing ICE for the high power elements. If your journeys are mainly short and you can recharge the Battery every day the MPG will be impressive. If you are doing longer journeys and the Battery is empty the MPG will be well under the WLTP figures. The MB GLA PHEV claims around 200 mpg I doubt owners are getting anywhere near that. With a pure Hybrid the WLTP mpg figures are likely to be much more accurate.

 

 

[philip42h]

1 hour ago, AndyRC said:

The WLTP is not necessarily that accurate for Plug In Hybrid vehicles as many are now capable of completing the majority of the test cycle on electric power and only needing ICE for the high power elements. If your journeys are mainly short and you can recharge the battery every day the MPG will be impressive. If you are doing longer journeys and the battery is empty the MPG will be well under the WLTP figures. The MB GLA PHEV claims around 200 mpg I doubt owners are getting anywhere near that. With a pure Hybrid the WLTP mpg figures are likely to be much more accurate.

The OP's question was specifically on the self-charging hybrid - as per the topic title - so the WLTP figure is as reliable as these figures can be.

Yes, of course, any MPG figures for plug-in hybrids are going rather suspect since the actual consumption will depend on the journey profile, the extent to which EV is used and, indeed, whether any fuel is burnt at all!

[Cyker]

On a normal non-plugin hybrid, the mpg figure is comparable with petrol and diesel ones; There's no weird trickery to be wary of like there is with plugins.

This only applies if it is WLTP tho - The NEDC MPG figures are often in the realms of high fantasy!

Case in point, the Mk3 Yaris Hybrid had an NEDC figure of 83mpg if IIRC - It couldn't even get close to that in the real world - Most people got MPGs only slightly better than my rubbish Mk2 1.33 petrol, and my old Mk1 D4D blew it out of the water.

The Mk4 has a seemingly worse MPG figure of 65.7mpg but this is on the new WLTP system, and is much more achievable in real life - I've managed to get into the low 70's without even really trying! And this is a mix of town, A-roads and motorway!

I have to say the TNGA Hybrids are a huge advancement over the previous generation - I think it's partly due to the switch to lithium, but also because they made the electric motors much more powerful. Most of the previous gen hybrids can't run on electric power alone at high speed, but the new ones can and it really makes a difference!