Dealer fixing independent garage mistake.

[AFCMajkel]

Hi all,

I had my rear brake pads changed today by local "highly recommend" garage. I don't know what they have done wrong, but after it car started showing "Check parking brake system". They have tried to reset the message, but unfortunately either they don't know how to do it or actually damaged something underneath the car. Parking brake works only when using it "manually" there is no auto engage/disengage and start stop system stopped working all together. Despite all this they demanded full payment, so I've paid £170 with my credit card. 

Very unhappy about this. I booked the car in for Toyota official garage, but just to plug it in to the computer they ask for £60+...

Luckily I do have Toyota extended warranty, but will that be covered in case of any actual damage made by the independent garage? I don't really know what to expect.

Do I have any grounds to charge back the garage I used for any costs occurred in Toyota?

[FROSTYBALLS]

It is usual for dealers, not just Toyota dealers, to charge a diagnostic fee which is usually waived if the issue is covered under warranty/extended warranty.

Any warranty or extended warranty provides cover for manufacturing defects. If the damage has been caused by the independent garage, this obviously wouldn't be a manufacturing defect, so presumably wouldn't be a warranty issue.

Are the independent a member of an trade organisation or similar? If so, you may have some comeback via the scheme the i dependent is a member of.

[Bob110023]

This independent garage has carried out faulty workmanship to your car. This has caused a fault which they cannot rectify. As you are getting the car checked and hopefully the work corrected by the main dealer you would be entitled to a full refund from the independent garage. If no joy from them use the charge back on your credit card.

[2009joe]

1 hour ago, AFCMajkel said:

Hi all,

I had my rear brake pads changed today by local "highly recommend" garage. I don't know what they have done wrong, but after it car started showing "Check parking brake system". They have tried to reset the message, but unfortunately either they don't know how to do it or actually damaged something underneath the car. Parking brake works only when using it "manually" there is no auto engage/disengage and start stop system stopped working all together. Despite all this they demanded full payment, so I've paid £170 with my credit card. 

Very unhappy about this. I booked the car in for Toyota official garage, but just to plug it in to the computer they ask for £60+...

Luckily I do have Toyota extended warranty, but will that be covered in case of any actual damage made by the independent garage? I don't really know what to expect.

Do I have any grounds to charge back the garage I used for any costs occurred in Toyota?

they have lost center point of your epb im guessing or by chance did they take off the plug that connect to the air filter as tbh i did this when i serviced my car and well i forgot to connect up the plug again that threw up that problem with the epb .i plugged it back in again and was all good. but tbh i bought my car and shorty after buying it i bought a cable and toyota techstream software from eBay to run any faults on it. by the sounds of it think you need the toyota techstream software to reset the center point of the epb 

[jimtaxi]

A word of warning to all Toyota Avensis owners I have never came across an independent garage that can change rear pads and disks without causing some kind of fault.Although the main dealer is expensive you will not need it done twice.I have completed this task twice with no problems, just follow the instructions from this site to the letter.

[AFCMajkel]

Called the independent garage again and informed them about the cost of diagnostic in Toyota. They said they will cover it. Well I wonder, whether they will have a change of heart if any additional work must be carried out.

[TonyHSD]

42 minutes ago, AFCMajkel said:

Called the independent garage again and informed them about the cost of diagnostic in Toyota. They said they will cover it. Well I wonder, whether they will have a change of heart if any additional work must be carried out.

Best to ask Toyota garage for a report of fault found and fix, total cost and present the report and invoice to the independent garage to cover the costs. What a bunch of cowboy mechanics, if you don’t know how to fix better be honest and recommend another place . 
Wish you good luck 👍

[Catlover]

How’s your negotiating skills. I reckon you going to need all of your £170 back you given to the independent garage, less the cost of the new pads etc and you will still be spending more with your Toyota dealer.                 
You now found out why you pay more at (any) main dealer. You not just paying the mechanics wages, NI contribution, holiday pay, sick pay etc, you paying for the running of a service department including training and courses, purchase of diagnostic kit etc.etc. The overheads will be hugh.

I remember a story going round re a large business that was very dependant on computers to run an efficient and profitable business.          
However, one day the main server computer was having a wobbler, and seventy or more staff was sat around not able to do anything and no sign of the on-site IT engineer sorting the problem. It was costing tens of thousands of pounds per hour in lost production/wages etc and the boss was going nuts.      
The IT guys head was on the block, when he come up with a suggestion. He had heard a local computer bod had a good reputation for problem solving, so he gave him a call. The computer bod came along immediately, stopping any work he was doing. He asked a few question, like how did the problem start, how has it got worse etc. Having listened to the answers to his question, the guy went up to the main box housing the server, give it a good thump in the top rear corner and the system burst into action, problem sorted, business back working, everybody happy.           
The guy presented his invoice to the boss, it was for £350. The boss went nutty again, huffing, puffing, very agitated, saying, you been here less then twenty minutes, asked a few questions, and thumped the computer…… and you charging £350 for that, I could have that myself.            
The computer bod, cool as a cucumber calmly said…… I understand your thoughts but what you didn’t know that I did is exactly where to thump the computer box and how hard to hit the box.          
That shut the boss up.        
The moral to learn from this is you have to pay for the time and skills of someone to do a job that you, and others, cannot.
 

 

 

[flash22]

If it's a EPB the system it may need a calibration or reset, it is one of the issues you run into if you don't wind back/release the calipers with a scan tool and do it manually

[Avalon]

2 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Best to ask Toyota garage for a report of fault found and fix, total cost and present the report and invoice to the independent garage to cover the costs. What a bunch of cowboy mechanics, if you don’t know how to fix better be honest and recommend another place . 
Wish you good luck 👍

A tad harsh - so far they have offered to cover the diagnostic fee without any agro, I would expect a decent independent to have an Autodata subscription which would document the process, but a lot of small independents who otherwise do good mechanical work can come unstuck when they need access to dealer level diagnostic kit for jobs like this or specialist knowledge. I mean if you are a specific brand specialist, you likely have access to that brands dealer level kit, but I wouldn’t rock up to an average independent expecting them to have full dealer diagnostics for every car.

[AFCMajkel]

10 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Best to ask Toyota garage for a report of fault found and fix, total cost and present the report and invoice to the independent garage to cover the costs. What a bunch of cowboy mechanics, if you don’t know how to fix better be honest and recommend another place . 
Wish you good luck 👍

Thank you for the advice I will definitely ask for the report. Believe it or not but this independent garage is 5 minute by foot to Toyota dealership and if the bill presented by Toyota will be higher than £170 I will be calling them to come around and pay it (although I am preparing myself that I will be laughed off). Then I will have to go through formal complain and maybe even a legal route. 

9 hours ago, Catlover said:

How’s your negotiating skills. I reckon you going to need all of your £170 back you given to the independent garage, less the cost of the new pads etc and you will still be spending more with your Toyota dealer.                 
You now found out why you pay more at (any) main dealer. You not just paying the mechanics wages, NI contribution, holiday pay, sick pay etc, you paying for the running of a service department including training and courses, purchase of diagnostic kit etc.etc. The overheads will be hugh.

If the Toyota repair will be under £170 I will just pay it and then use the charge back with the bank. Card provider is as much responsible as is the garage for a breach of contract. Any amount above I will take the steps as mentioned above.

7 hours ago, Avalon said:

A tad harsh - so far they have offered to cover the diagnostic fee without any agro, I would expect a decent independent to have an Autodata subscription which would document the process, but a lot of small independents who otherwise do good mechanical work can come unstuck when they need access to dealer level diagnostic kit for jobs like this or specialist knowledge. I mean if you are a specific brand specialist, you likely have access to that brands dealer level kit, but I wouldn’t rock up to an average independent expecting them to have full dealer diagnostics for every car.

I hope it will be an easy fix with Toyota, but if not then this is a lesson learned for me and probably for this independent garage. 

[Konrad C]

I have a couple of ideas what may have caused the issue. One is the pistons not being wound back correctly, so the cut outs within the piston are horizontal to the caliper. The second is the wrong diagnostic tool was used to calibrate the parking brake, though this is not necessary since most home DIY mechanics, don't possess or have access to high end diagnostics. I made that mistake with my Launch diagnostics and used Techstream to fix my car. There is another fix using the paper clip method on the OBD port. It is detailed in the links, but it didn't work for my early 2009 car. 

By the way, the error codes are :-
C1346 Zero Point Calibration of Clutch Stroke Sensor Undone
C1336 Zero point Calibration of G Sensor Undone


Read the following - 

 

[Avalon]

8 hours ago, AFCMajkel said:

Thank you for the advice I will definitely ask for the report. Believe it or not but this independent garage is 5 minute by foot to Toyota dealership and if the bill presented by Toyota will be higher than £170 I will be calling them to come around and pay it (although I am preparing myself that I will be laughed off). Then I will have to go through formal complain and maybe even a legal route. 

If the Toyota repair will be under £170 I will just pay it and then use the charge back with the bank. Card provider is as much responsible as is the garage for a breach of contract. Any amount above I will take the steps as mentioned above.

I hope it will be an easy fix with Toyota, but if not then this is a lesson learned for me and probably for this independent garage. 

Perhaps it's your choice of wording, but rather than co-operating with a garage who have so far been reasonable with you and acted in good faith, even offering to pay for your additional costs to go to the franchised dealer, you seem to be suggesting you'll demand that they pay a bill they have no knowledge of for work they haven't authorised on an invoice they haven't even seen and haven't been given any opportunity to verify the reason the work was required (remember that report?) and you expect it to be paid on the spot? That seems as likely as it is reasonable. What happens if it turns out not to be anything to do with them? Alternatively you'll pay the bill and do a chargeback with again no mention of contact or giving the company the opportunity to issue you with a refund after they've seen the evidence they were at fault, or the payment they have already offered. If they'd ignored the issue and fobbed you off and it was provable that it was them at fault, then absolutely do a charge back, but what you've posted suggests it's not they who are acting unreasonably.

[2009joe]

On 7/16/2021 at 3:53 PM, flash22 said:

If it's a EPB the system it may need a calibration or reset, it is one of the issues you run into if you don't wind back/release the calipers with a scan tool and do it manually

well im not sure about the 2016 avensis .when i did mine i kept my car ing at the on part held in or out i cant remember to turn off the epb then i took off the breaks calibers and wound back the piston with a wind back took changed my breaks tbh was a easy job i tought was harder then plus i got new genuine discs also as they were on there way out as well and well when i heard all the storys about this epb i said when im in there im doing the whole thing to new genuine pads and discs . after i had all in i got into the car pumped the breaks the epb was still switched off .then i started the car drove it back and forward putting on the breaks making sure was all working great then and only then i turned the epb back on again by holding in or out i cant remember for 6 seconds 

[AFCMajkel]

On 7/17/2021 at 10:16 AM, Avalon said:

Perhaps it's your choice of wording, but rather than co-operating with a garage who have so far been reasonable with you and acted in good faith, even offering to pay for your additional costs to go to the franchised dealer, you seem to be suggesting you'll demand that they pay a bill they have no knowledge of for work they haven't authorised on an invoice they haven't even seen and haven't been given any opportunity to verify the reason the work was required (remember that report?) and you expect it to be paid on the spot? That seems as likely as it is reasonable. What happens if it turns out not to be anything to do with them? Alternatively you'll pay the bill and do a chargeback with again no mention of contact or giving the company the opportunity to issue you with a refund after they've seen the evidence they were at fault, or the payment they have already offered. If they'd ignored the issue and fobbed you off and it was provable that it was them at fault, then absolutely do a charge back, but what you've posted suggests it's not they who are acting unreasonably.

I am a bit crossed with this independent garage, because they should have called, apologised and perhaps have the car with them for another day or two, whilst they would try to get to the bottom of this. As a customer I was left alone with the problem. "Yeah mate, car is ready for collection, but there is an error on the dash and we can't fix it". No action plan was laid out to fix their mistake.

They only offered to pay for diagnostics, when I actually asked them who will cover this unexpected Toyota bill. All the time they were mentioning the codes they had on their computer saying "C1346 Zero Point Calibration of Clutch Stroke Sensor Undone" and something else. Their response was, we had nothing to do with it "we haven't touched your clutch".

Of course I want them to cover all the Toyota investigation/repair cost, because the car was recently serviced and MOT in Toyota and no faults were found. If Toyota dealer will prove that this error has nothing to do with brake pads replacement then the drama will end and I will not pursue it further. 

Either way, dropping the car off at Toyota on Tuesday and will update this thread with the outcome.

[AFCMajkel]

Hi all,

Toyota fixed the issue, by re-calibrating the G Sensor. Total was £53.40, again this independent garage proved to be very unreliable, as no one could recall the Friday phone conversation with me, despite me having the name of the "technician/boss" (apparently he was uncontactable/on his day off). They asked me to come back another time when he is back.... I politely asked them to stop wasting my time and either sort out this refund now, or I will just claim it with the bank. Within 5 minutes refund was issued.

Will definitely avoid in the future... 

[TonyHSD]

On 7/26/2021 at 11:52 PM, AFCMajkel said:

Hi all,

Toyota fixed the issue, by re-calibrating the G Sensor. Total was £53.40, again this independent garage proved to be very unreliable, as no one could recall the Friday phone conversation with me, despite me having the name of the "technician/boss" (apparently he was uncontactable/on his day off). They asked me to come back another time when he is back.... I politely asked them to stop wasting my time and either sort out this refund now, or I will just claim it with the bank. Within 5 minutes refund was issued.

Will definitely avoid in the future... 

Glad is sorted now. Seriously, many garages are nothing but cowboys, has no knowledge or education about cars, been  called “mechanics “ just because their names are unknown,…. I believe that if you can’t afford to get your car done in Toyota dealer, the other best option is to diy , if that not possible, then is the big trouble especially when have to face guys like that one. Can’t wait for the electric cars to take over and drive all these garages out of business, this process already has begun.👍

[2009joe]

On 7/26/2021 at 11:52 PM, AFCMajkel said:

Hi all,

Toyota fixed the issue, by re-calibrating the G Sensor. Total was £53.40, again this independent garage proved to be very unreliable, as no one could recall the Friday phone conversation with me, despite me having the name of the "technician/boss" (apparently he was uncontactable/on his day off). They asked me to come back another time when he is back.... I politely asked them to stop wasting my time and either sort out this refund now, or I will just claim it with the bank. Within 5 minutes refund was issued.

Will definitely avoid in the future... 

how do u think that toyota dose this re-calibrating the G Sensor. i wonder as i have techstream would know the step by step way of doing this.i have no problems as of yet just wondering love to know how to do it if i ever need to i will know