Are the paddles missing from the UK RAV4 PHEV?

[Nick72]

Just discovered that the R4P for Germany does not come with the paddles. Now in most circumstances these are pretty useless but as the car has no descent control switch like my last PHEV, many other PHEVs and even the Hyundai Tuscon cheapo loaner I've got I was relying on the paddle shifters to increase regenerative braking in EV mode and engine braking with the ICE running. This is the consensus of what the paddles do and their utility from the North American users. This is a huge surprise and I'm honestly a little gobsmacked by it. Bizarre.

Please say the UK version has the paddle shifters.😥

[ernieb]

They are missing, very disappointed.  I was also unhappy that UK Toyota deleted the heated steering wheel.

I had the paddles on the Subaru XV with a CVT and whilst it’s nit perfect it was useful.

[roger_37]

26 minutes ago, ernieb said:

They are missing, very disappointed.  I was also unhappy that UK Toyota deleted the heated steering wheel.

I had the paddles on the Subaru XV with a CVT and whilst it’s nit perfect it was useful.

on my model, you just move the gear lever then you can go up/down the gears as you please, ithink this does the same as the paddles

[philip42h]

We don't have paddles but we do have S mode and shift options on the gear selector. I assume that you do have S mode on the PHEV?

[ernieb]

True, but not as convenient as the paddles as there is no need to move your hands off the steering wheel. i'm used to the manual mode as some of my previous cars had a VW DSG gearbox but just preferred the paddles.

[Nick72]

1 hour ago, ernieb said:

They are missing, very disappointed.  I was also unhappy that UK Toyota deleted the heated steering wheel.

I had the paddles on the Subaru XV with a CVT and whilst it’s nit perfect it was useful.

Whoa. The heated steering wheel is also missing. WTH!

Looking at the UK spec document it mentions the paddles specifically for descent control. That's a huge disappointment. 

 

So here is my completely disappointed list...

No digital rear view mirror.

A paltry 150W output from the rear cargo power socket vs USA 1.5kW which actually useful. I couldn't power my laptop off 150W!

No heated steering wheel. 

No paddle shifters for regen control and descent control. 

 

Gosh! I'm shocked. What next? This is getting as bad as Volvo when I discovered cross traffic alert, blind spot warning, etc was omitted and they didn't tell anyone.

Annoyingly i asked the fleet manager and dealer if there was anything missing from that UK spec document and they said not. Annoyed is an understatement. 

Grrrrr.

 

 

[Nick72]

1 hour ago, roger_37 said:

on my model, you just move the gear lever then you can go up/down the gears as you please, ithink this does the same as the paddles

That means faff, hands off the wheel during a tricky descent. Not good. Whole point of descent control is to put focus on steering not braking and accelerator. This set up is crap.

[Nick72]

1 hour ago, philip42h said:

We don't have paddles but we do have S mode and shift options on the gear selector. I assume that you do have S mode on the PHEV?

Yes, I believe sport mode more aggressively performs regen. The UK spec document also mentions Descent Acceleration Control where the car manages the engine braking and regen to minimise need for braking but I don't believe that document anymore.

[ernieb]

@Nick72, to be far the dealer is correct its all present as per the UK spec.  It's just as usual, not just with Toyota, that the UK franchise holder decides to leave off functions as it feels that they are not necessary as part of the UK spec.

The energy recovery works pretty well and allows good harvesting whilst giving a reasonable braking effect.  I use this a lot as well as well anticipating traffic lights and traffic slowing this gives a good increase in EV range.

It's easy to get confused and upsold by looking at Youtube and the USA spec'd cars, I did! 

[philip42h]

8 minutes ago, Nick72 said:

The UK spec document also mentions Descent Acceleration Control

Can you provide a link to that document?

Hill descent control is a feature of the conventional torque converter auto box - I had it on my previous 4.4 diesel and it is available on the US Adventure spec (I think) - that is a conventional petrol powered car - same engine, no electric motors. We don't get that over here ...

[philip42h]

13 minutes ago, Nick72 said:

Yes, I believe sport mode more aggressively performs regen.

Don't confuse S mode with Sport mode - S stands for Select, meaning that the driver can manually select a lower or higher gear exactly as one could with the paddles ...

[roger_37]

29 minutes ago, Nick72 said:

That means faff, hands off the wheel during a tricky descent. Not good. Whole point of descent control is to put focus on steering not braking and accelerator. This set up is crap.

im coming from a manual so makes no difference to me hands on/off.

 all depends what your used  to and...

[ernieb]

@philip42h, the document is the “full release document” and the paragraph on hill decent says,

Further  assistance  is  provided  by  Deceleration  Assist  Control which  automatically  increases  drive  motor  deceleration  torque  when  downhill  braking  is detected.  This  makes  for  a  smoother  drive  with  less  need  for  the  driver  to  use  the  brakes. 
 

https://www.toyotaownersclub.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=44066&key=d6ebda349d57e043f638ede965897b51

[philip42h]

18 minutes ago, ernieb said:

@philip42h, the document is the “full release document” and the paragraph on hill decent says,

 

Further  assistance  is  provided  by  Deceleration  Assist  Control which  automatically  increases  drive  motor  deceleration  torque  when  downhill  braking  is detected.  This  makes  for  a  smoother  drive  with  less  need  for  the  driver  to  use  the  brakes. 
 

https://www.toyotaownersclub.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=44066&key=d6ebda349d57e043f638ede965897b51 710.18 kB · 6 downloads

Thanks ernie ... so, that's the document from the Toyota UK media site described as "Full Press Pack". And I gather from what you guys are saying, it isn't entirely correct. I suspect that it is a copy and paste from another geography - but either way it is annoying. The brochure and equipment specs from the customer facing website make no mention of paddles or 'deceleration assist control'.

[ernieb]

@philip42h, agreed, it’s meant to be the UK release spec document but does, like the manual, have issues.  My gut feel it that there is some software intervention when the car is descending. I regularly visit Derbyshire, every few weeks, and where we are based there is  a very steep hill, the speed limit is 40mph.  If I just crest the top at 40mph it more or less maintains that speed with little intervention from me. I’m previous cars the speed would just gradually climb.  The charge indicator shows an increasing level of charge and and the screen charge energy recovery flow shows charge from both axels.

[Nick72]

3 hours ago, ernieb said:

@Nick72, to be far the dealer is correct its all present as per the UK spec.  It's just as usual, not just with Toyota, that the UK franchise holder decides to leave off functions as it feels that they are not necessary as part of the UK spec.

The energy recovery works pretty well and allows good harvesting whilst giving a reasonable braking effect.  I use this a lot as well as well anticipating traffic lights and traffic slowing this gives a good increase in EV range.

It's easy to get confused and upsold by looking at Youtube and the USA spec'd cars, I did! 

I suppose so thanks Ernie. I'm calmer now. 😀👍

[Nick72]

3 hours ago, philip42h said:

Can you provide a link to that document?

Hill descent control is a feature of the conventional torque converter auto box - I had it on my previous 4.4 diesel and it is available on the US Adventure spec (I think) - that is a conventional petrol powered car - same engine, no electric motors. We don't get that over here ...

Here goes...

1610985654210114MRAV4PHEVFullRelease (1).pdf

[Nick72]

3 hours ago, philip42h said:

Don't confuse S mode with Sport mode - S stands for Select, meaning that the driver can manually select a lower or higher gear exactly as one could with the paddles ...

Ah yes but according to American forums they're using sport mode for down hill for greater regen. I suppose if you then use S mode and the plus or minus to down shift you can increase the braking further. Shame about the paddles though.

[Nick72]

3 hours ago, roger_37 said:

im coming from a manual so makes no difference to me hands on/off.

 all depends what your used  to and...

That's fair when you look at it like that. I suppose we can just get it in the right gear for the descent at the start of the descent. I need to try this out rather than speculating a lot.

[Mickatdunge]

I have a Suzuki Across - more or less the same car I believe.  It has paddles.  I never use them but there you go.

[Flatcoat]

It is another quirk of Toyota UK specifications - definitely no paddles (which I would have liked). Along with no PVM, heated steering wheel, no headlight washers and no heated windscreen. All available in various other European markets. 

[Catlover]

7 minutes ago, Flatcoat said:

It is another quirk of Toyota UK specifications - definitely no paddles (which I would have liked). Along with no PVM, heated steering wheel, no headlight washers and no heated windscreen. All available in various other European markets. 

Of your list of Wants, IMO, the only worthy one is heated windscreen. All the others would cost additions that I would not want to pay for.  I think heated windscreen should be on every new car, legislation required. surely the Ford patent will run out by now.

[ernieb]

3 minutes ago, Catlover said:

Of your list of Wants, IMO, the only worthy one is heated windscreen. All the others would cost additions that I would not want to pay for.  I think heated windscreen should be on every new car, legislation required. surely the Ford patent will run out by now.

Agreed it's a fundamental requirement in my view and even if Ford still had a license fee to be paid the cost in a £40K would be negligible.  The heated steering wheel would have been a big plus for me and I was really hacked off that it was missing. I sadly, like many I think, fell foul of watching to much US/Canadian YouTube and initially made assumptions, absolutely down to me.

[Flatcoat]

With the pre-heating option is there a need for a heated screen? My previous Volvo PHEV had a heated screen and pre-heating. the car also warmed up so quickly I can hardly recall using it. I can see the benefit in cold climates and for cars with less complex heating and ventilation systems. 

[Roy124]

Tend to agree about the heated steering wheel.  I find the cold wheel, say 5 deg, is worse than no windscreen heating as I get my car out of the garage.