Steering noise, is it steering rack or steering column? T27 Avensis

[JiiN]

I have replaced strut mount bearings to both side and that didn't get that noise away. Altough left side bearing was already broken (only 120 000km mileage!).

I've noticed that in my case the noise came little after I replaced brake discs and pads, could that be the noise maker, who knows? I have checked brakes four or five times and pads slide like a dream at carriers etc.

Youtube gives lot of a videos about Toyota's steering shaft issues and I found this video (it is about Rav4, but I was wondering could this work in Avensis too😞

 

[JiiN]

Still trying to figure what makes that noise. I found this video (Prius) and I'll try this regreasing method tomorrow: 

 

[slc79]

I'm having the intermediate shaft changed coming tuesday. Car mechanic also was under the impression that it could not come from anywhere else, especially since it was affected by the tilt. They also felt a slight vibration in the shaft while turning the steering wheel at the same time the clunk would appear. They weren't able to inspect the lower joint thoroughly as it would require some more disassembly, but they were fairly confident that is where it came from.

In addition they agreed that this would rule out the steering rack, because if it was the steering rack it would have behaved differently and probably more consistent. It would certainly not be affected by the steering wheel adjustments. So .. on tuesday I will be able to give a final update on whether or not the shaft was the culprit 🙂 Cautiously optimistic!

[JiiN]

I really hope You find solution to Your noise issue. I havent noticed any differend about that noise when I adjust the tilt. So It should be pretty easy to rule out that (Youtube video).

[JiiN]

On 9/10/2021 at 4:03 PM, slc79 said:

I'm having the intermediate shaft changed coming tuesday. Car mechanic also was under the impression that it could not come from anywhere else, especially since it was affected by the tilt. They also felt a slight vibration in the shaft while turning the steering wheel at the same time the clunk would appear. They weren't able to inspect the lower joint thoroughly as it would require some more disassembly, but they were fairly confident that is where it came from.

In addition they agreed that this would rule out the steering rack, because if it was the steering rack it would have behaved differently and probably more consistent. It would certainly not be affected by the steering wheel adjustments. So .. on tuesday I will be able to give a final update on whether or not the shaft was the culprit 🙂 Cautiously optimistic!

Any news? Did You get that shaft changed and did it get that annoying noise away?

[slc79]

The part didn't arrive in time, so the appointment was rescheduled for Friday 🙂 I didn't forget to update. It just hadn't happened yet.

Funny thing is, though, after they had the car in for a check the problem have almost vanished completely. I have no idea what they did to it while investigating the issue, but it only occasionally pops now... odd thing this.

[JiiN]

I've been notice that the noise has almost vanished when weather got much colder here in Finland. Noise came at springtime when weather got warmer and now when wheather got much colder suddenly the noise isn't that annoying anymore.

[slc79]

5 minutes ago, JiiN said:

I've been notice that the noise has almost vanished when weather got much colder here in Finland. Noise came at springtime when weather got warmer and now when wheather got much colder suddenly the noise isn't that annoying anymore.

What I suspect here is that the movement in the steering wheel adjustment may have temporarily loosened the joints on the shaft a bit. Or maybe they even tried this often used WD40-trick to loosen up a corroded joint while troubleshooting. I'll ask them on Friday. I still cannot see what else it could be than these joints.. did you try replacing that shaft and still have this problem?

[JiiN]

7 minutes ago, slc79 said:

What I suspect here is that the movement in the steering wheel adjustment may have temporarily loosened the joints on the shaft a bit. Or maybe they even tried this often used WD40-trick to loosen up a corroded joint while troubleshooting. I'll ask them on Friday. I still cannot see what else it could be than these joints.. did you try replacing that shaft and still have this problem?

I haven't replaced shaft yet. Still trying to figure out what makes that noise in my case.

[slc79]

8 minutes ago, JiiN said:

I haven't replaced shaft yet. Still trying to figure out what makes that noise in my case.

Ah, ok 🙂 I can understand your interest in the result on mine then. But again, look at that drawing of the column.. once you can rule out the steering rack (which they are sure they could here, and several mechanics have pointed out, that a steering rack fault would not be as sporadic as this and would certainly not be affected by the steering wheel adjustment) it can only be the intermediate shaft or the connection between the motor and shaft. Latter is also very unlikely according to the work shop, so we're then left with the shaft as the only possible culprit. But I promise to let you know on Friday 🙂

Looking forward to having this solved as I'm finally starting to adjust to the car. I've even managed to get close to the consumption of my Volvo V50 diesel before I had it re-mapped (the consumption dropped considerably after re-mapping), and I'm on par with my girlfriend's Ford Focus diesel. Still miss the extra momentum from the diesel engine, though.. but then I remind myself "Hey, now you don't have a turbo, EGR or DPF that can fail on you", which more than makes up for it.

[JiiN]

24 minutes ago, slc79 said:

Ah, ok 🙂 I can understand your interest in the result on mine then. But again, look at that drawing of the column.. once you can rule out the steering rack (which they are sure they could here, and several mechanics have pointed out, that a steering rack fault would not be as sporadic as this and would certainly not be affected by the steering wheel adjustment) it can only be the intermediate shaft or the connection between the motor and shaft. Latter is also very unlikely according to the work shop, so we're then left with the shaft as the only possible culprit. But I promise to let you know on Friday 🙂

This makes me confused. Mine doesn't get that noise away when I adjust the tilt. But I'll wait Your report how it goes! 🙂

[slc79]

So, got my car back.. and so the saga should have ended... I thought! But they insisted a wheel alignment was not necessary when I OK-ed the job and when I got my car back now, the steering wheel is of course out of alignment.. NOW they inform me that a wheel alignment must be done. I am not particularly eager to pay for that, because Toyota quoted me only a slightly higher price where this was actually included for the same job. I'm taking it back on monday anyway so we'll see how that goes. Expect one more update! 😄

Anyway, before I dropped off the car this sound did disappear, possibly by jerking around the steering wheel but I decided to go on with the change anyway. All indications does point to the part being bad, because the arm didn't extend fully on its own like it should when its new. I didn't know this before I asked them to change it, but decided to have it changed anyway. Knowing the fault on the shaft now I can also easily see that the failure to extend could put some awkward pressure on the joints in certain cases, leading to this noise. The steering also feels a bit tighter now, thus I think this may indeed have been the culprit.

[slc79]

I guess we can for now consider this issue closed. It kinda sucks that the noise disappeared before I had the initial appointment, but now it's changed and there is still no hint of this knocking sound in either steering wheel position. At least there was a slight hint the day before I left it at the shop. Inspected the part myself, and there is indeed some slight wear near where I've seen numerous videos flushing some grease down with a needle. I have yet to understand exactly how any wear at that location can cause this, but... we'll leave it at that for now 🙂 The workshop also corrected my steering wheel today and did not charge for it. Definitely going back to that shop if I need something else done, as they were both reasonably priced and as one of the few around, they accept using brought parts whether they're new or from a scrapyard (though at own responsibility, which is fair enough).

[JiiN]

19 hours ago, slc79 said:

I guess we can for now consider this issue closed. It kinda sucks that the noise disappeared before I had the initial appointment, but now it's changed and there is still no hint of this knocking sound in either steering wheel position. At least there was a slight hint the day before I left it at the shop. Inspected the part myself, and there is indeed some slight wear near where I've seen numerous videos flushing some grease down with a needle. I have yet to understand exactly how any wear at that location can cause this, but... we'll leave it at that for now 🙂 The workshop also corrected my steering wheel today and did not charge for it. Definitely going back to that shop if I need something else done, as they were both reasonably priced and as one of the few around, they accept using brought parts whether they're new or from a scrapyard (though at own responsibility, which is fair enough).

Good to hear that You solved Youre problem! I found this topic: https://www.rav4world.com/threads/an-even-easier-solution-to-the-steering-clunk.191585/ and I've been tried that couple times. It looks like that annoying clunking noise appears really much less than before. I will try that topics advice few more times if it could help even more.

[slc79]

32 minutes ago, JiiN said:

Good to hear that You solved Youre problem! I found this topic: https://www.rav4world.com/threads/an-even-easier-solution-to-the-steering-clunk.191585/ and I've been tried that couple times. It looks like that annoying clunking noise appears really much less than before. I will try that topics advice few more times if it could help even more.

I would not be surprised if what they were describing there is the same problem. I still fail to see why this would make a clunk. The description of what he did, would also line up with how it more or less vanished after messing with the steering wheel adjustments and turning. Because that WAS done to a large extent while testing, and when they had the car in the first time, they would clearly feel a vibration in that part while turning the wheel. But that picture in a post he linked further to of the shaft, why would any clunking at all come from that part marked 'C' ? It doesn't really turn, it only moves in and out. Is there a small play there I cannot feel which is being eliminated if greased?

It appears that the guide is focusing on getting grease in everywhere there's splines.. is it actually teeth grinding that causes the clunk?

[JiiN]

On 9/21/2021 at 4:05 PM, slc79 said:

I would not be surprised if what they were describing there is the same problem. I still fail to see why this would make a clunk. The description of what he did, would also line up with how it more or less vanished after messing with the steering wheel adjustments and turning. Because that WAS done to a large extent while testing, and when they had the car in the first time, they would clearly feel a vibration in that part while turning the wheel. But that picture in a post he linked further to of the shaft, why would any clunking at all come from that part marked 'C' ? It doesn't really turn, it only moves in and out. Is there a small play there I cannot feel which is being eliminated if greased?

It appears that the guide is focusing on getting grease in everywhere there's splines.. is it actually teeth grinding that causes the clunk?

I asked Toyota service about this problem and mechanic said that this is common issue with T27 Avensis. He said even if shaft moves in and out without problem those splines is that noise maker. He said "if steering wheel adjustment is untouched long time grease at splines can dry, it gets some corrosion and after adjustment sound will appear". I asked if there is any first aid to this problem and he said adding some grease somehow at splines could help but he told me to change it if sound annoys.

Did You Tom check was part number at new shaft any different than original one?

[slc79]

11 minutes ago, JiiN said:

I asked Toyota service about this problem and mechanic said that this is common issue with T27 Avensis. He said even if shaft moves in and out without problem those splines is that noise maker. He said "if steering wheel adjustment is untouched long time grease at splines can dry, it gets some corrosion and after adjustment sound will appear". I asked if there is any first aid to this problem and he said adding some grease somehow at splines could help but he told me to change it if sound annoys.

Did You Tom check was part number at new shaft any different than original one?

No, I never got to see the new part at all. It was ordered from Toyota by the shop that did the job.
But this does explain what I've seen with all the fix videos that demonstrates how to re-grease the spline. I'm still not sure where the pop would come from, though... but from what I gather, it is not an Avensis-only problem, as none of the repair videos I've seen online were Avensis, but rather other Toyota models. Now if I could just get that transmission changed too I'm hopefully done with repairs for a while 😛

[JiiN]

6 minutes ago, slc79 said:

No, I never got to see the new part at all. It was ordered from Toyota by the shop that did the job.
But this does explain what I've seen with all the fix videos that demonstrates how to re-grease the spline. I'm still not sure where the pop would come from, though... but from what I gather, it is not an Avensis-only problem, as none of the repair videos I've seen online were Avensis, but rather other Toyota models. Now if I could just get that transmission changed too I'm hopefully done with repairs for a while 😛

But Youre noise is gone? I have to ask monday how much money I have to give to local Toyota service to get that part 😄 at Amayama that shaft is about 150€ shipped to here in Finland and I'll change that myself.

[slc79]

6 minutes ago, JiiN said:

But Youre noise is gone? I have to ask monday how much money I have to give to local Toyota service to get that part 😄 at Amayama that shaft is about 150€ shipped to here in Finland and I'll change that myself.

The steering wheel noise is all gone, yes. Be aware that if you don't do the job carefully, you may need a wheel alignment done afterwards. So secure the steering wheel well and be very thorough when marking the position of the splines when you disconnect it 🙂 (I was advised to get a wheel alignment done, as when I got my car back the steering wheel was not centered... but since they had promised no wheel alignment was necessary they fixed this for free.. not sure what they did, but I suspect that they just reposisioned the steering wheel rather than doing a full alignment 😄 )

[JiiN]

Noise is gone now! I didn't (luckily) buy new shaft yet and thought I try to grease before replacing it. I took that shaft away and noticed that bottom end of that shaft is open. It is so open that if You push that shafts extension all the way in those bearing balls will drop out of shaft (and yes, there is some kind a bearing inside the shaft). I dropped 3 of them off, but found all of them and those balls are easy to put back. I sprayed crc white lithium grease inside to shaft, pumped extension in and out couple times and I repeated that three or four times. After re-installing shaft and test drive I noticed that the steering wheel alignment slided to wrong position but it was easy job to fix. I took only bottom end off again and moved to a correct spline and steering wheel was straight again.

Put summary is, it is actually very easy task to do if You can handle tools at all. It was much more easier than I thought before starting the job.

[slc79]

1 hour ago, JiiN said:

Noise is gone now! I didn't (luckily) buy new shaft yet and thought I try to grease before replacing it. I took that shaft away and noticed that bottom end of that shaft is open. It is so open that if You push that shafts extension all the way in those bearing balls will drop out of shaft (and yes, there is some kind a bearing inside the shaft). I dropped 3 of them off, but found all of them and those balls are easy to put back. I sprayed crc white lithium grease inside to shaft, pumped extension in and out couple times and I repeated that three or four times. After re-installing shaft and test drive I noticed that the steering wheel alignment slided to wrong position but it was easy job to fix. I took only bottom end off again and moved to a correct spline and steering wheel was straight again.

Put summary is, it is actually very easy task to do if You can handle tools at all. It was much more easier than I thought before starting the job.

Is it supposed to be open? Mine isn't as far as I know.. I still have the part in the car so could check when I remember, was thinking of saving it in case it could be needed re-grease as another replacement..

[JiiN]

37 minutes ago, slc79 said:

Is it supposed to be open? Mine isn't as far as I know.. I still have the part in the car so could check when I remember, was thinking of saving it in case it could be needed re-grease as another replacement..

I think it supposed to be open. Now You said so I'm not sure but I think it supposed to be open. There was no any cover under that plastic wich is covering shaft. And shaft needed a bit force to push extension all the way in. Bearing balls cannot fall when shaft is in normal position and it is covered at bottom earlier mentioned plastic cover around shaft so I think it supposed to be open.

[slc79]

43 minutes ago, JiiN said:

I think it supposed to be open. Now You said so I'm not sure but I think it supposed to be open. There was no any cover under that plastic wich is covering shaft. And shaft needed a bit force to push extension all the way in. Bearing balls cannot fall when shaft is in normal position and it is covered at bottom earlier mentioned plastic cover around shaft so I think it supposed to be open.

Anyway, happy you solved it too 🙂 Hopefully this thread can serve as a reassurance to other owners with a knocking sound that comes from the steering wheel on various Toyotas, most of all T27, as all my "research" points to this as being a common point of failure, but very few conclusive threads about it and very little explanation as to why it happens.

[JiiN]

2 hours ago, slc79 said:

Anyway, happy you solved it too 🙂 Hopefully this thread can serve as a reassurance to other owners with a knocking sound that comes from the steering wheel on various Toyotas, most of all T27, as all my "research" points to this as being a common point of failure, but very few conclusive threads about it and very little explanation as to why it happens.

Driving T27 got much more enjoyable when that annoying knockin sound is gone! 😄 I've noticed too that this is common issue with some of Toyota's models but information about what make that sound is very difficult to find. So I hope someone who is struggling with this problem too finds this thread and get solution. 

[JiiN]

And one more update. Noise came back. 😄 I got new shaft from Toyota today, I'll replace it maybe wednesday and that should (maybe) close my case.