Yaris 2018 Hybrid - Not starting - Hybrid fault light

[CPN]

3 hours ago, arjanvirdi said:

Yes, it works as normal.

Ok then I would come back to what @Cyker suggested... It's really the only thing left now...

[arjanvirdi]

On 8/11/2021 at 10:57 PM, Cyker said:

Well there's definitely something wrong - It shouldn't be possible to go into Ready mode without pressing on the brake pedal...!

 

I wonder if a previous owner somehow jammed on the brake pedal sensor so they wouldn't have to press the brake to start, and that bodge is now messing something else up...?

 

 

On 8/12/2021 at 6:33 PM, CPN said:

Ok then I would come back to what @Cyker suggested... It's really the only thing left now...

 

Here's a video of me starting it without the brake pedal. Do you think this is normal, or something wrong?

Thanks

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 5, 2022 by Steve
video too large, please use youtube and link it. thanks

[Catlover]

Video won’t work for me.

[MikeSh]

22 hours ago, Cyker said:

Well there's definitely something wrong - It shouldn't be possible to go into Ready mode without pressing on the brake pedal...!

Are 'we' sure about that?

It's true for the keyless start but may not be for the 'keyed' version. Eg. Our Smart with key start only requires it to be in P - no brakes needed.

[Cyker]

I'm pretty sure the footbrake needs to be pressed in to start the car - AFAIK every Toyota since around the mid-late 2000's has needed either the clutch (Manuals) or footbrake (Autos) to be pressed before they will start, keyed or keyless.

Even my old manual Mk2 Yaris and my dad's auto Verso *require* the clutch (manual Yaris) or the footbrake (auto Verso) to be pressed in, otherwise the engine won't start even if twist the key to the ignition setting: Those are both conventional petrols, with keys, and the engine doesn't even crank if the clutch/footbrake is not pressed while activating the ignition.

The manual for my Mk4 Yaris even says in the section for normal key starts:

1) Check that the parking brake is set.
2) Check that the shift lever is set in P.
3) Firmly depress the brake pedal.
4) Turn the power switch to START to start the hybrid system.

 

However, the video posted clearly shows it starting and going into Ready mode without the footbrake being pressed. (Had to download it as it's 400MB, portrait and 4K so my browser couldn't play it embedded!)

Now, the reason I had that idea about someone tampering with the footbrake switch, is that someone posted here a few weeks or so ago (Edit: https://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/200783-push-in-clutch-to-start-car-switch/), literally asking how to bypass that switch as they couldn't be bothered to press down the clutch when starting the car, so it's well possible some similar bypass has been done here by a previous owner...

(Either that or the Mk3's really do let you start them without the footbrake?! Anyone with a Mk3 of the same year and similar spec who can chime in??)

Now... assuming is that, the question is how to fix it? I have not a clue! Maybe our resident keeper of toyota secrets flash22 has some idea where to start...??  

[HughA]

Certainly need foot on the brake with my 2016 Mk3 Hybrid.

[Bos]

4 hours ago, HughA said:

Certainly need foot on the brake with my 2016 Mk3 Hybrid.

And my 2017 Hybrid.

[flash22]

Push button start cars use the brake as a secondary interlock to release the steering lock

 

I take it, the OP's brake lights work ? i will have to look at the method of operation tbh

edit. With the car off, can you move it out of park ? With it in ready mode, can you move it out of park without your foot on the brake ?

[MikeSh]

9 hours ago, HughA said:

Certainly need foot on the brake with my 2016 Mk3 Hybrid.

Key or push-button start?

4 hours ago, Bos said:

And my 2017 Hybrid.

Key or push-button start?

[Bos]

10 minutes ago, MikeSh said:

Key or push-button start?

Key or push-button start?

Push button!!    I still remember the fist time I filled it with petrol and forgot to press the brake, There was a queue behind me, I felt a right -------!!

[MikeSh]

51 minutes ago, Bos said:

Push button!!    I still remember the fist time I filled it with petrol and forgot to press the brake, There was a queue behind me, I felt a right -------!!

OK, it's been established that PB needs brake pedal to start. It's the key start that is not pinned down as the OPs car starts without brakes.

[Starensis]

Our 1.5L Icon Tech CVT ( non-hybrid) can be started without brake pedal being pressed. Only needs to be in P.

[CPN]

10 hours ago, Starensis said:

Our 1.5L Icon Tech CVT ( non-hybrid) can be started without brake pedal being pressed. Only needs to be in P.

Indeed, and that makes sense because, by default, the hybrid models "creep" when in "D" just like a conventional automatic box does and so, depressing the brake pedal before doing anything or moving into "D", is a kind of safety feature in all the hybrids. I'm betting that your CVT does not "creep" when in "D" right? Are you required to take any action before moving the lever out of the "P" position?

[Starensis]

Yes, before moving out of P, you have to press brake pedal, but not to start engine.

[flash22]

As @Cyker posted above - Keyed ignition (Hybrid) gen3 and 4

1) Check that the parking brake is set.
2) Check that the shift lever is set in P.
3) Firmly depress the brake pedal.
4) Turn the power switch to START to start the hybrid system.

If the “READY” indicator turns on,the hybrid system will operate normally.

Continue depressing the brake pedal until the “READY” indicator is illuminated.
 

 

[Cyker]

Yeah that's the proper start procedure - What we're trying to figure out is a) Why he can start his Mk3 Hybrid WITHOUT pressing on the Brake pedal, and b) If that's any relation to the fault he's getting

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Just a thought - has it been a Cat S or Cat N write-off? The V5C should show this.

[flash22]

It's more than likely a brake light switch, There are 2 types of switch - a white 4 pin or a black 7/8 pin - the 7/8 pin type has a superseded part number, so it must have been an issue

[arjanvirdi]

On 8/13/2021 at 4:18 PM, flash22 said:

Push button start cars use the brake as a secondary interlock to release the steering lock

 

I take it, the OP's brake lights work ? i will have to look at the method of operation tbh

edit. With the car off, can you move it out of park ? With it in ready mode, can you move it out of park without your foot on the brake ?

Brake lights work fine, see picture:

 

 

With the car off, it won't move out of park, with it in ready mode, it still can not move out of park. The footbrake must be pressed to move it out of park, however you don't need the footbrake when moving it from D to any other gear.

55 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Just a thought - has it been a Cat S or Cat N write-off? The V5C should show this.

It's not, also did a vehicle check before the purchase.

 

For those who can't play the video of me starting without a key above: https://youtu.be/3fEcgCSUIJc

 

 

-

 

Providing the brake doesn't need to be pressed on to start this specific car, the issue mentioned in the OP only happened for one day, and has not come back. It's not come back for me to test pressing the brake, in order for it to start, as it starts fine as normal now, with the brake pressed or not. However for context, on what could have caused the issue, here are some videos:

Sister starting car, did not start, dash lights: https://youtu.be/XUIZA2TIYLE

 

I started car, had the same issue, but when tried again, started with hybrid light: https://youtu.be/Qy9eYwfqMyc

 

Picture of the dash light: 

 

 

As mentioned in the OP, a couple of hours, the hybrid light went, and it has started as normal ever since.

 

 

[CPN]

Ok, try this: ignoring all that has gone before and the fact that you can start it without having to press the brake pedal, try 5 randomly spaced and timed start-ups each time keeping the brake pedal pressed. Does it start correctly every time reliably and go to "READY"?

[arjanvirdi]

On 8/14/2021 at 7:51 PM, CPN said:

Ok, try this: ignoring all that has gone before and the fact that you can start it without having to press the brake pedal, try 5 randomly spaced and timed start-ups each time keeping the brake pedal pressed. Does it start correctly every time reliably and go to "READY"?

The car has been working fine ever since, and went to ready each time. However, I am now currently broken down, and its not starting. See the video:

 

[flash22]

With your ignition in run and foot on the brake, can you shift out of P ??

Edit. I see you have a hybrid warning light on, if the car has been sat and not used the 12v Battery maybe low,(charge the Battery, if that's ok scan for codes

[arjanvirdi]

45 minutes ago, flash22 said:

With your ignition in run and foot on the brake, can you shift out of P ??

Edit. I see you have a hybrid warning light on, if the car has been sat and not used the 12v battery maybe low,(charge the battery, if that's ok scan for codes

Yes, it hasn't been sat. Currently at toyota, as bought used, it looks like the previous owners have hidden damage, toyota said. I'm waiting on toyota to see what they say.

[arjanvirdi]

For an update: It's had a new inverter, which led to another fault, and it needed new small hybrid device, and now is working fine. Seems to have been an electrical problem.

[flash22]

Thanks for the update