PHEV... What is the navigation solution like? Traffic, speed cams, 3D?

[Cyker]

I feel you - I keep lamenting that we don't get the jappy-spec Mk4 Yaris here - It is narrower on the outside (But not the inside?!), which suits my city use better, and also has options for 360 top down view, auto parking (!), an actual proper handbrake (not the rubbish electronic ones you normally get now!), satnav (Not that I actually want OEM satnav but for this kind of money you normally expect it as standard!), wireless phone charging, heated seats and steering wheel and even AWD!!!

Even compared to the euro-spec ones we miss out on a lot of stuff; I really don't understand what Toyota GB were thinking when they picked the specs for the UK - I feel like they don't understand their core customers at all!

 

[Nick72]

2 hours ago, philip42h said:

Madness ... the Premium Pack option on the HEV adds "Toyota Skyview® panoramic roof *, JBL® Premium Sound System with 9 speakers including an 8-channel, 800-watt amplifier, 2x tweeters, 4x wide-dispersion speakers, 2x full range speakers and subwoofer & Panoramic View Monitor (PVM)" which I added to my Excel spec exactly 'cos I wanted PVM - I didn't care about pan roof or JBL.

The Dynamic Premium grade of the PHEV adds the extra goodies of the Excel + Premium Pack but instead of PVM it seems to get HUD ...

Sympathies

That's a shocker to be honest. I specifically asked, with respect to the Dynamic Premium, the fleet manager and dealer if anything was missing from the uk spec document and was told no, it's all there. 

 

So basically...

 

No PVM

No digital rear view mirror

No spare wheel

No 1.5kW 220V outlet in the boot

 

What else have I missed? No front camera?

[Nick72]

41 minutes ago, Cyker said:

I feel you - I keep lamenting that we don't get the jappy-spec Mk4 Yaris here - It is narrower on the outside (But not the inside?!), which suits my city use better, and also has options for 360 top down view, auto parking (!), an actual proper handbrake (not the rubbish electronic ones you normally get now!), satnav (Not that I actually want OEM satnav but for this kind of money you normally expect it as standard!), wireless phone charging, heated seats and steering wheel and even AWD!!!

Even compared to the euro-spec ones we miss out on a lot of stuff; I really don't understand what Toyota GB were thinking when they picked the specs for the UK - I feel like they don't understand their core customers at all!

 

To be honest it is very poor. Heated steering wheel also missing. I just recalled that too.

 

A 52k car versus about 35k in the USA where it is much better equipped, shocker. I don't think I'll be getting another Toyota again. 

Only way forward in 3 years when I get to swap is to go back to Mercedes. Never anything like this with them.

Annoyed and angry pants now. 🤬

[philip42h]

I appreciate that this doesn't help, but the PHEV does appear to be as described in the UK Spec Document as available for download today ...

[Cyker]

To be fair, I've never had such a small car with so much stuff in it so while it is annoying knowing what else I could have had, it's not as bad as it could have been. I can't think of any other cars in this segment with a proper HUD!

I just don't understand why Toyota have such limited options and weird limitations, like the lower specs not being able to have addons for things that they have wiring harnesses for anyway, or even weirder ones like the top spec having less colour options than the low spec - If you look at, say VW, the amount of options you can spec up are huge by comparison, and often are applicable to all base specs for that car except where they conflict. Toyota's options tend to be limited to overpriced trim pieces and other cosmetic bits, vs VW having actual options like sunroofs, sensors, heated xyz etc.

Limited options has long been a thing with Toyota tho', but in their defence their base specs do tend to be more loaded than a lot of other manufacturers - A lot of the stuff that are options with VW come as standard with Toyota, but I wish they'd just be a bit more flexible, esp. if they're going to be charging these kinds of prices! It would be nice to be able to add stuff I wanted without being forced to goto higher specs that have things I don't want!

 

[Nick72]

1 hour ago, philip42h said:

I appreciate that this doesn't help, but the PHEV does appear to be as described in the UK Spec Document as available for download today ...

Just looked now and you're right. I think the issue with expectations related to the specification listed on our company car portal. Pretty sure I cut and pasted the 2 pages of text at the time. Still, I may well have confused myself on this watching too many review videos from the continent and North America. Either way it's an own goal from Toyota. Hopefully what's left of the car will make up for it 🙏

[Nick72]

47 minutes ago, Cyker said:

To be fair, I've never had such a small car with so much stuff in it so while it is annoying knowing what else I could have had, it's not as bad as it could have been. I can't think of any other cars in this segment with a proper HUD!

I just don't understand why Toyota have such limited options and weird limitations, like the lower specs not being able to have addons for things that they have wiring harnesses for anyway, or even weirder ones like the top spec having less colour options than the low spec - If you look at, say VW, the amount of options you can spec up are huge by comparison, and often are applicable to all base specs for that car except where they conflict. Toyota's options tend to be limited to overpriced trim pieces and other cosmetic bits, vs VW having actual options like sunroofs, sensors, heated xyz etc.

Limited options has long been a thing with Toyota tho', but in their defence their base specs do tend to be more loaded than a lot of other manufacturers - A lot of the stuff that are options with VW come as standard with Toyota, but I wish they'd just be a bit more flexible, esp. if they're going to be charging these kinds of prices! It would be nice to be able to add stuff I wanted without being forced to goto higher specs that have things I don't want!

 

Agreed. The downside though as you find with say Volvo is that you really want that one thing but to get it you need to add a pack with 3 other things you didnt care about. But to add that pack you needed to have added some other pack etc etc. Before you know it a 360 camera system just cost you 6k.

[ernieb]

@Nick72, I agree with you about YouTube setting your expectations it happened to me.  Reviewing and negotiating your way through car specs is getting more complex especially as each manufacturer generates its own names for essentially similar features (e.g., TPMS usual, Toyota TPWS) Additionally with the “chip” issues the manufacturers also seem to be dropping spec’d items as you’ve also seen with Volvo.

When we negotiated ours it was done virtually over the phone and there were no cars available in the UK to look at let alone drive. Going over the available options and what was included became difficult as the dealer was not always that sure himself.

I agree there was the on line spec etc., but…..

I’ve said this elsewhere it is a lovely car to drive and I’m sure you’ll enjoy yours when it comes.

[Nick72]

12 hours ago, ernieb said:

@Nick72, I agree with you about YouTube setting your expectations it happened to me.  Reviewing and negotiating your way through car specs is getting more complex especially as each manufacturer generates its own names for essentially similar features (e.g., TPMS usual, Toyota TPWS) Additionally with the “chip” issues the manufacturers also seem to be dropping spec’d items as you’ve also seen with Volvo.

When we negotiated ours it was done virtually over the phone and there were no cars available in the UK to look at let alone drive. Going over the available options and what was included became difficult as the dealer was not always that sure himself.

I agree there was the on line spec etc., but…..

I’ve said this elsewhere it is a lovely car to drive and I’m sure you’ll enjoy yours when it comes.

I'm sure I will enjoy it. Just having a reliable car rather than the hassle of one 4 of 9 months of ownership in the dealer getting not fixed. My next car after this will most likely be a Rivian R1T or an XC60 EV unless I'm overwhelmed by the R4P in which case I have the option to buy it at a low auction price irrespective of mileage. So I might do that but it all depends. 

Agree it's getting harder to get what you want. It's a minefield. Volvo changed a pack name from Driver Assistance to Driver Assist. Ordered Driver Assistance and they gave me Driver Assist. They said nothing. Except at least two key safety features you get as standard on a lot of cars were missing. It's a problem on a 60k car.

 

 

[ernieb]

@Nick72, in 2 to 3 years (serial production) the Toyota (Subaru) BZ series will be available with the fast charge long range batteries so that might be a choice. Subaru 4x4 transmission and drive systems with Toyota Battery EV systems, reliability could be a winning team.

[Nick72]

16 minutes ago, ernieb said:

@Nick72, in 2 to 3 years (serial production) the Toyota (Subaru) BZ series will be available with the fast charge long range batteries so that might be a choice. Subaru 4x4 transmission and drive systems with Toyota battery EV systems, reliability could be a winning team.

That could be interesting. If I get get 260 or so winter motorway miles of range I'll be sold. Provided I get a digital rear view mirror, 360 degree parking sensor and 1.5kW plug socket in the boot and I'm sold. Oh and they've upgraded their infotainment microprocessors from Z80s to Pentium IIs.

[Nick72]

Just now, Nick72 said:

That could be interesting. If I get get 260 or so winter motorway miles of range I'll be sold. Provided I get a digital rear view mirror, 360 degree parking sensor and 1.5kW plug socket in the boot and I'm sold. Oh and they've upgraded their infotainment microprocessors from Z80s to Pentium IIs.

And a heated steering wheel. 

[Nick72]

Just now, Nick72 said:

And a heated steering wheel. 

And the winter cargo floor mat extends up the back of the car seats.

 

Basically all the stuff I thought I was getting on this one 🤣

[Smelter1]

The navigation is better than my previous car a 2006 RAV4 but not a patch on my sons Mercedes, it does show speed camera’s,  but as we don’t have speed cameras in Wiltshire I don’t have a lot of experience but I believe it alarms if you are approaching one at speed.

Every one is different, and I particularly wanted the panoramic roof, my son has the PVM on his Mercedes and doesn’t use it now.

Interestingly, I drove back from London round the S circular and down the A3 with the car in EV mode and achieved 51.8miles before the petrol engine kicked in.

I have since driven down to Poole 59 miles in Hybrid mode and achieved 67.3mpg.

In the USA,  I believe, they can specify lots of extras, and the PVM is mentioned in the European specs, but definitely not in the UK spec. The only options were tow bar, mud flaps, and rubber mats if I remember correctly. I have the tow bar, but have to put 1,000 miles on the clock before I can tow over 45mph

[Smelter1]

No traffic like Apple maps or Google , it does have 3D. Apple’s car play works well.

 

 

 

[ernieb]

@Smelter1, glad you're enjoying your R4P, it's surprising how well the EV system works if you are mindful of the road conditions and use a lift and coast technique. I'm always careful not to slow the general traffic around me but it's an easy enough style to adopt rather than the accelerate to the lights and then get really surprised when they have turned to red and hit the brakes hard. I've managed around the 46mpg on the motorway driving at the limit on EV.  The lack of UK options well aired on the forum.

What are you towing?  

[Nick72]

15 hours ago, Smelter1 said:

The navigation is better than my previous car a 2006 RAV4 but not a patch on my sons Mercedes, it does show speed camera’s,  but as we don’t have speed cameras in Wiltshire I don’t have a lot of experience but I believe it alarms if you are approaching one at speed.

Every one is different, and I particularly wanted the panoramic roof, my son has the PVM on his Mercedes and doesn’t use it now.

Interestingly, I drove back from London round the S circular and down the A3 with the car in EV mode and achieved 51.8miles before the petrol engine kicked in.

I have since driven down to Poole 59 miles in Hybrid mode and achieved 67.3mpg.

In the USA,  I believe, they can specify lots of extras, and the PVM is mentioned in the European specs, but definitely not in the UK spec. The only options were tow bar, mud flaps, and rubber mats if I remember correctly. I have the tow bar, but have to put 1,000 miles on the clock before I can tow over 45mph

Good efficiency all round. A result.

Why 1000 miles? I thought it was 600 to bed the ICE in before straining the engine.

 

[Nick72]

5 hours ago, ernieb said:

@Smelter1, glad you're enjoying your R4P, it's surprising how well the EV system works if you are mindful of the road conditions and use a lift and coast technique. I'm always careful not to slow the general traffic around me but it's an easy enough style to adopt rather than the accelerate to the lights and then get really surprised when they have turned to red and hit the brakes hard. I've managed around the 46mpg on the motorway driving at the limit on EV.  The lack of UK options well aired on the forum.

What are you towing?  

I read on the American forum that using Sport mode in EV mode means better regen and achieved range versus the eco mode and coasting with less regen. I don't know how right this is but there was a deal of consensus.

[ernieb]

..or just put it into the S mode select and use at as a manual when you need the extra slowing effect and regen.  I’ve found that the regen is pretty progressive and have not needed anything to get good mpg performance.  Just leaving the car do it’s thing seems to work pretty well after all that’s what Toyota have years of experience doing better than most.

[Nick72]

4 hours ago, ernieb said:

..or just put it into the S mode select and use at as a manual when you need the extra slowing effect and regen.  I’ve found that the regen is pretty progressive and have not needed anything to get good mpg performance.  Just leaving the car do it’s thing seems to work pretty well after all that’s what Toyota have years of experience doing better than most.

This is where the paddle shifters would have been useful me thinks.

[Smelter1]

According to the manual it’s 500 miles before towing and then not exceeding 45mph for the next 500 miles. It fits in with my holiday plans to do a 1,000 miles before towing my caravan , ( loaded weight 1410kgs). The car can tow 1500kgs, it will be interesting to see how it performs.

 I agree with Ernie you can put it in S mode to slow down and regenerate but in the end it’s easier to let the car sort itself out and just be gentle on the brake. I’m thinking S mode  will be useful for slowing down when traveling downhill with the van , anybody with experience of this. No info in the manual.

 

 

[ernieb]

@Smelter1, I would run the in car charge hold/hybrid mode for a few miles to get some “miles” on the ICE.  I did a few long runs with no EV just the reserve in traction Battery and then use hybrid mode.  If I was towing I would probably use the auto hybrid mode and let the car sort when to use the EV mode it’s likely to be more sensitive than the driver.

[Nick72]

58 minutes ago, Smelter1 said:

According to the manual it’s 500 miles before towing and then not exceeding 45mph for the next 500 miles. It fits in with my holiday plans to do a 1,000 miles before towing my caravan , ( loaded weight 1410kgs). The car can tow 1500kgs, it will be interesting to see how it performs.

 I agree with Ernie you can put it in S mode to slow down and regenerate but in the end it’s easier to let the car sort itself out and just be gentle on the brake. I’m thinking S mode  will be useful for slowing down when traveling downhill with the van , anybody with experience of this. No info in the manual.

 

 

Got it thanks for clarifying.

I need to get on some long runs to put mileage on it when I pick it up next week.

From my last PHEV SUV there were 2 drive modes. One had no regen when you lifted off the accelerator. It just coasted. The other mode was heavy regen when you took foot off accelerator. 

What i figured out was the high regen mode was best for stop start traffic. Round town, traffic lights etc. Whereas any time on a dual carriage way or just a long 40mph road it was better in coasting mode.

But as Ernie says may be it is best to leave the car to it? But what really is the difference between Eco, Normal and Sport mode? What actually changes? And if Eco provides more coasting why would that be better in stop start low traffic?

Confused a little.

 

[philip42h]

It's pretty simple really:

• Normal is 'normal' - the car behaves sensibly and pretty much as you would want it to
• Eco emphasises economy - kills acceleration and switches off wasteful things like climate control
• Sport provides a more sporty performance - weights the steering to give more feel and prioritises performance over economy

I never use Eco; I nearly always use Normal ('cos it's sporty enough); but there's always Sport if you want / need it ...

[Nick72]

2 minutes ago, philip42h said:

It's pretty simple really:

• Normal is 'normal' - the car behaves sensibly and pretty much as you would want it to
• Eco emphasises economy - kills acceleration and switches off wasteful things like climate control
• Sport provides a more sporty performance - weights the steering to give more feel and prioritises performance over economy

I never use Eco; I nearly always use Normal ('cos it's sporty enough); but there's always Sport if you want / need it ...

Thanks Philip but I'm still none the wiser. What is 'actually' changing? Throttle response, power made available, steering 'weight', traction control sensitivity, etc. Think I'm looking for specifics rather than the general idea if that makes sense.