PHEV... What is the navigation solution like? Traffic, speed cams, 3D?

[ernieb]

I think what changes is mainly the throttle response I can not see much else to be honest maybe slightly better braking recovery but that's difficult to determine.  I'm sure this is linked to a power/recovery map but the car is just very clever in these departments and the transitions very smooth and even in ECO mode the use of the right foot will push the car to allow for comfortable passing acceleration.  Frankly, I've found the ECO mode perfectly acceptable and use this mode for the majority of my driving and still get the use of AC/heating and dual climate control.  Around the towns and or twisty country lanes ECO mode is for me perfectly acceptable and seems comparable to others cars I driven but that's maybe down to my driving style.

However, Sport/Hybrid mode will make the car fly and put some surprised looks on the faces of other drivers and a smile on yours.  The R4P is very quick and gets going almost instantly with a real kick in the back. @Nick72, once the car is run in you'll be able to se for yourself!

These things are so very subjective.

[philip42h]

8 hours ago, Nick72 said:

Thanks Philip but I'm still none the wiser. What is 'actually' changing? Throttle response, power made available, steering 'weight', traction control sensitivity, etc. Think I'm looking for specifics rather than the general idea if that makes sense. 

I'm not sure that you'll get much by way of design specifics but there is a limited description of what changes in the owners manual and, I rather suspect, that that description understates what actually changes ...

Toyota introduced the Eco, Normal and Sport modes with the RAV 4.4. Essentially, they change the data tables used by the onboard computers to control certain aspects of the car ...

Steering: 'power assistance' is provided via an electric motor as controlled by the OBC - when the driver introduces a steering input, the car helps out. In the 4.4 more power assistance was provided in Eco mode making the steering lighter; less was provided in Sport mode giving more steering feel. In the 4.4, I found Eco mode steering too light once I got out of town - like driving on ice - so I didn't use it. In the 4.5 there is no mention of lighter steering in Eco so Toyota may well have seen the light and 'ditched' that table change; the steering still weights up in Sport.

Throttle response: applying pressure to the accelerator 'merely' tells the OBC that you want to go faster, it then opens the throttle the corresponding amount. In Eco mode the table data results in the throttle opening slowly and the OBC may never deploy more than three quarter throttle (say) to ensure that the engine runs economically. In Sport mode the throttle opening is more aggressive. Quite easy to understand on a petrol or diesel engine, but I also suspect that the OBC is more parsimonious with electrical power in Eco mode and more cavalier with electrical more in Sport mode. As Ernie says, in Sport mode the car feels noticeably quicker.

Gearbox: in simple terms, in Eco mode the OBC selects higher gear ratios for economy; in Sport mode the OBC selects lower gear ratios for performance. Obviously this feature is available with an automatic gearbox only. With my 4.4 diesel torque converter auto the shift points changed noticeably and the car would never go into 6th (top) in Sport mode - since 6th was effectively an overdrive gear and there was more performance available down in 5th. In a hybrid with the CVT box similar considerations apply though, obviously, the gear ratios are continuously variable - in Eco the OBC will adjust the CVT 'settings' for greater economy so the petrol engine revs more slowly; in Sport the OBC will adjust the CVT 'settings' for greater performance so the petrol engine revs more quickly. See comments above on 'electrical power'.

I'm not aware of any specific traction control setting changes - but that doesn't mean that there aren't any.

Nor do I fully understand how these setting impact regenerative braking - we may get a bit more in Sport mode and a bit less in Eco mode - but as said elsewhere, using Select mode may well be a better way to control that. Personally, I would like a bit more regenerative braking effect in Normal mode so that I had slightly less need to go for the brake pedal when going down hill - but the the first part of gentle braking is 'regenerative' so I get exactly what I need even if in not quite the way that I want it.

And, while the Eco, Normal and Sport setting define the set of control tables to be used, we still have the primary input via the throttle pedal - in Normal mode I can drive economically with a light right foot and in a more 'sporting' manner by more aggressive use of the pedal ...

All of the above is opinion ... 😉

[Nick72]

1 hour ago, ernieb said:

I think what changes is mainly the throttle response I can not see much else to be honest maybe slightly better braking recovery but that's difficult to determine.  I'm sure this is linked to a power/recovery map but the car is just very clever in these departments and the transitions very smooth and even in ECO mode the use of the right foot will push the car to allow for comfortable passing acceleration.  Frankly, I've found the ECO mode perfectly acceptable and use this mode for the majority of my driving and still get the use of AC/heating and dual climate control.  Around the towns and or twisty country lanes ECO mode is for me perfectly acceptable and seems comparable to others cars I driven but that's maybe down to my driving style.

However, Sport/Hybrid mode will make the car fly and put some surprised looks on the faces of other drivers and a smile on yours.  The R4P is very quick and gets going almost instantly with a real kick in the back. @Nick72, once the car is run in you'll be able to se for yourself!

These things are so very subjective.

Thanks Ernie. I think I'll just go in Eco mode in that case. Probably in EV most of the time once the engine is broke in.

Save the sport hybrid mode for traffic lights!

[Nick72]

27 minutes ago, philip42h said:

I'm not sure that you'll get much by way of design specifics but there is a limited description of what changes in the owners manual and, I rather suspect, that that description understates what actually changes ...

Toyota introduced the Eco, Normal and Sport modes with the RAV 4.4. Essentially, they change the data tables used by the onboard computers to control certain aspects of the car ...

Steering: 'power assistance' is provided via an electric motor as controlled by the OBC - when the driver introduces a steering input, the car helps out. In the 4.4 more power assistance was provided in Eco mode making the steering lighter; less was provided in Sport mode giving more steering feel. In the 4.4, I found Eco mode steering too light once I got out of town - like driving on ice - so I didn't use it. In the 4.5 there is no mention of lighter steering in Eco so Toyota may well have seen the light and 'ditched' that table change; the steering still weights up in Sport.

Throttle response: applying pressure to the accelerator 'merely' tells the OBC that you want to go faster, it then opens the throttle the corresponding amount. In Eco mode the table data results in the throttle opening slowly and the OBC may never deploy more than three quarter throttle (say) to ensure that the engine runs economically. In Sport mode the throttle opening is more aggressive. Quite easy to understand on a petrol or diesel engine, but I also suspect that the OBC is more parsimonious with electrical power in Eco mode and more cavalier with electrical more in Sport mode. As Ernie says, in Sport mode the car feels noticeably quicker.

Gearbox: in simple terms, in Eco mode the OBC selects higher gear ratios for economy; in Sport mode the OBC selects lower gear ratios for performance. Obviously this feature is available with an automatic gearbox only. With my 4.4 diesel torque converter auto the shift points changed noticeably and the car would never go into 6th (top) in Sport mode - since 6th was effectively an overdrive gear and there was more performance available down in 5th. In a hybrid with the CVT box similar considerations apply though, obviously, the gear ratios are continuously variable - in Eco the OBC will adjust the CVT 'settings' for greater economy so the petrol engine revs more slowly; in Sport the OBC will adjust the CVT 'settings' for greater performance so the petrol engine revs more quickly. See comments above on 'electrical power'.

I'm not aware of any specific traction control setting changes - but that doesn't mean that there aren't any.

Nor do I fully understand how these setting impact regenerative braking - we may get a bit more in Sport mode and a bit less in Eco mode - but as said elsewhere, using Select mode may well be a better way to control that. Personally, I would like a bit more regenerative braking effect in Normal mode so that I had slightly less need to go for the brake pedal when going down hill - but the the first part of gentle braking is 'regenerative' so I get exactly what I need even if in not quite the way that I want it.

And, while the Eco, Normal and Sport setting define the set of control tables to be used, we still have the primary input via the throttle pedal - in Normal mode I can drive economically with a light right foot and in a more 'sporting' manner by more aggressive use of the pedal ...

All of the above is opinion ... 😉

Thanks Philip that is super helpful. I think like Ernie says it is going to be a case of trying it out and working out personal preferences. On my 2nd to last car, a Merc, the Eco mode changed throttle response, made traction control high, and steering response light. It was gutless for everyday driving and as you say felt like driving on ice a little. So I never used it. But I think I'll start here and see how I get on.

Thanks as ever.