First.long journey and a couple of questions.

[philip42h]

I think that the radar cruise option is best / suits me better under all situations where cruise control is 'useful'. For motorway and dual carriageway cruising it is excellent.

I find that it 'breaks down' once the motorway gets overcrowded or we otherwise get into stop-start traffic. It's not that it doesn't work or can't cope, it's just that I find that I can do a better job of anticipating when I need to slow down by watching 4 or 5 cars ahead, while the system is focusing on only the car in front. As a result it brakes later and harder than it 'should' do, and is less 'considerate' to the cars behind. I'm pretty sure that it would get a lower "hybrid driving score" than I would! 😉

[ColinB]

On my C-HR I use the "normal" cruise control all the time, but I'm not a fan of the radar controlled version. Saying that I used it in busy traffic on the M5 around Exeter and it worked a treat, so will try experimenting more later.

[ernieb]

@Yugguy1970, that’s the power of the “mind worm” working simple issues that bug us and the relief when the solution presents itself. Glad your happy….. for now?😊

[Yugguy1970]

I've been reading the trip reports in MyT.  Nanny Toyota tells you how to drive and scolds you or gives you a pat on the back.

It's interesting as it tells me to brake less and coast more which is great for mpg but not for the rear brakes.

[ernieb]

I do, and have for many years, use the lift and coast technique if I see the way ahead requires the car to slow. I then regularly excise brakes to ensure they are not ‘polished’.

[philip42h]

1 hour ago, Yugguy1970 said:

I've been reading the trip reports in MyT.  Nanny Toyota tells you how to drive and scolds you or gives you a pat on the back.

It's interesting as it tells me to brake less and coast more which is great for mpg but not for the rear brakes.

All cars have a certain character, and the RAV 4.5 hybrid is one that wants to be driven 'economically' - it's got enough 'go' to be satisfying even when being driven relatively gently I find. Accelerating flat out, only to brake hard is clearly a waste of fuel, so a bit of anticipation is a good thing, but equally there are enough occasions when one needs to accelerate or brake firmly just to be safe - and MyT will tell you off for doing so. So I tend to ignore the silly nags ...

But I can't help keeping an eye on my "hybrid driver score" and trying to get it as high as possible ... 🙂

[Yugguy1970]

Yes I'm not a speedy driver these days but I drive the RAV same as I used to drive any car.  I might try and see how much I can get if I do coast more.

[PeteB]

3 hours ago, philip42h said:

...to brake hard is clearly a waste of fuel...

Not to mention wearing out the discs and pads.  Braking moderately as much as possible (and safe!) can result in phenomenal brake part life.  Gen 2 Prius owners I've known (and met in a couple of cases) have sold their cars (for later Prius models) with over 100,000 miles (165,000 km) still with their ordinal pads and discs.

My Gen 3 & 4 Prius were both on track to be likely to need new discs and pads at nearly ¼ million miles if the type of use and my ownership had continued long enough.  On cars that had the Hybrid System Indicator (from Gen 3 Prius onwards, IIRC), I made a point of braking as much as possible without letting the HSA point past the bottom of the CHG region, which meant it used the very minimum of friction braking.  Gen 3 & 4 Prius could display the HSI in the Head Up Display, which made life much easier.

But, be warned, the biggest enemy of brake longevity (apart from lot of hard braking or lots and lots of crawling in heavy traffic [regen only works above about 7 mph on early Hybrid generations, might be slightly less on more recent versions]).

A Gen 1 Prius I owned for 9 years and sold with 163,000 miles on it had negligible brake wear after 70,000 miles, but for just over a year I had use of company vehicles and the Prius sat outdoors with only a few short journeys and one longer one a month.  The discs rusted heavily and braking was really noisy as the friction abraded the rust, at the cost of both discs and pads.  They all needed replacing in under 10,000 further miles at a cost of over £500 (some of which Toyota reimbursed, as the original Prius warranty covered premature brake wear)  [I think the beefier RAV4 brakes will be much more expensive to replace!].  The car returned to daily use and the replacements, which had done over 70,000 miles when I sold the car, seemed likely to last for 2-300,000 miles if the same use pattern had continued.

A few other Gen 1 Prius owners with low usage patterns got their brakes replaced under warranty in the same period, and we'd hoped Toyota would get the mix of metals used in their discs modified to rust less.  Unfortunately, what they modified was the wording of their warranty to exclude brakes.  So much for striving for quality!

[PeteB]

4 hours ago, Yugguy1970 said:

...I might try and see how much I can get if I do coast more.

I try to lift off the accelerator (without braking) as early as possible when approaching things like roundabouts and traffic lights.

It's particularly satisfying to watch the Energy Monitor display showing juice flowing from the Motor/Generator into the HV Battery, and more so on my AWD version to see a similar flow from the rear M/G into the Battery.

[Yugguy1970]

To be fair I'm not talking about braking hard or late, just braking how you would in a none hybrid.

I do want to learn how to get the best out of the hybrid system though so I'm reading all this with interest cheers.

And yes l love the energy monitor, especially on a long downhill and I also love the way charging, eco, power mode changes are all completely seamless to the driver.  

Another thing I love is that because there are no gears you can go from D to R straightaway.  My Focus had an 8 speed auto box that was lovely and smooth in gear changes but going from D to R it would take a couple of seconds to engage.  Which doesn't sound a lot but if you are doing a 3 point turn it adds up.

It also had a rotary dial which did look and feel classy but I much prefer a stick.

[Catlover]

Loads of tips on You Tube, Guy.  I used to watch a lot, and still do. Just noticed this morning of a competition of who can do the most mpg in a Prius. I been up to 96.x over a 50 mile journey so these guys I reckon will be doing over 100mpg. But it is in USA and their gallon is smaller, so maybe something less then 100.  When I get 10. Imputes I will watch it.

[ernieb]

US gallon to UK gallon 82.27% 

[Nick72]

On 8/27/2021 at 6:51 PM, Rav Rob said:

Yugguy have you discovered the overtake boost feature? Say radar cruise is set to 75 but you catchup someone doing 60 so the Rav slows to match, as soon as you indicate Right to pull out and overtake, the RAV starts charging towards 75, before you have even pulled out! Can be a bit disconcerting if your not expecting it, some say its dangerous but you get used to it and it gives you a bit of a run up for the overtake so when you move right your at a more apropriate speed. Can make lorry hopping in left lane very effortless.

That's cool. So even before you've pointed the nose radar away from the car in front it starts speeding up?

[Cyker]

Mine is supposed to do that but seems to do the opposite!! Many times I find it either keeps the same speed or even slows down, esp. if someone moves out of the lane in front of me, but also when I am changing lanes! It seems to take ages to decide that enough of a gap has opened up and then it suddenly accelerates quite firmly, then engine brakes as it sees the car in front.

I've taken to cancelling the CC and only letting it run when traffic speed changes are minimal; It's especially bad at slowing down as it brakes too hard and far to early - I'm getting better at spotting when this is going to happen, so I can quickly hit the cancel button (Excellent placement - Whoever put that button there deserves a gold star!*) and let the car coast through the massive buffer it's left, often just in time to catch the traffic accelerating again without having to brake any more, so I can just re-engage the CC.

 

 

*This is the kind of control ergonomics that I wish more manufacturers would put more effort and time into! Looking at some newer cars - the ID3 and Tesla Model S Plaid are particularly awful - It seems like they were designed with form over function; Sounds good on paper and looks slick in the brochure, but having a touch control for the hazard lights, or even worse instead of an indicator stalk, should be illegal IMHO! I have a particular condition where, for some reason, capacitive touch screens are very unresponsive to my fingers - Partly why I still use a trackball with my laptop as the touchpad is just unusable for me, so there is no way I'd go near a car that required me to use touch controls for major functions!

 

[ernieb]

@Cyker, I found that mine was similar to yours and pretty much the same as my last car Subaru XV. What I’ve found is that if you pull out and the radar can track a car that is passing you at speed the radar is very happy to let the car track that. The issue seems to be the lag when the radar detects a car in front that you are getting close to and once it’s decided to reduce the speed to keep its distance the pick back to speed if you pull out takes time to adjust. The best bet if the outside lane is clear is to change lane early as once the algorithm to reduce speed kicks it the safety element becomes dominant.

Mind you it’s easy enough to use the right foot and override the ACC briefly and once past let the ACC recover. Now that can be fun and the passing acceleration is excellent.

[Yugguy1970]

Cyker that's why I would never have a Tesla even at competitive prices.  I love technology but I dont want to be having to use a touchscreen to open the glovebox or worse, adjust the wiper sensitivity.

Controls need to be tactile, and instantly there.

I like that feature too, that you can adjust your speed, then the acc takes control again rather than disengaging completely.

[PeteB]

It also makes a difference which 'power mode' you're in:  in ECO mode, the ACC accelerates very gently, more rapidly in Normal and quite aggressively in Sport (PWR Mode  in a Prius).

It's quite amusing (to me, at least) to occasionally, when accelerating from a low speed to a high speed (for example when leaving a roundabout on a fast dual carriageway) to start in ECO mode, then select Normal then Sport and feel the acceleration ramp up each time.

I use mine to manage my acceleration up to speed a lot, and am in ECO Mode almost 100% of the time.  One other thing I've noticed is that when it's accelerating in a line of traffic, if the vehicle in front is accelerating briskly, it the RAV will accelerate slightly more rapidly than if there's nothing in front.  I've not tried to take any measurements to check whether this effect is real, or one I'm imagining!

[PeteB]

3 hours ago, Yugguy1970 said:

Cyker that's why I would never have a Tesla even at competitive prices.  I love technology but I dont want to be having to use a touchscreen to open the glovebox or worse, adjust the wiper sensitivity.

Controls need to be tactile, and instantly there.

I like that feature too, that you can adjust your speed, then the acc takes control again rather than disengaging completely.

Fully agree.  I also appreciate the RAV4 the rotary controls for temperature, audio volume and track change, which are much more effective than the rocker switches and touch switches that you can't find by feel on s0ome Toyotas.

A Tesla owner in Germany came a cropper from the touch screen recently too:  Tesla touchscreen wiper controls land driver with fine after crash - BBC News

[Rav Rob]

10 hours ago, Nick72 said:

That's cool. So even before you've pointed the nose radar away from the car in front it starts speeding up?

Yes, and it can be disconcerting at first. Some people seem to have issues with the ACC but I don't. I do probably up to 2000 miles a month using it.

On Saturday I did the entire length of the busy A34 with it on 90% the way and lane keeping too, then the same on the M42. Its the nearest thing to train travel you can get in a car!

I tend to pick a lorry that is slightly quicker than most so gets overtaken by other lorries less and lock on at long range let it do its thing. If the lorry catches and overtakes something slower the RAV just closes up a bit and locks onto the slower vehicle instead. Once my 'pet' lorry has built a gap ahead of the slower vehicle, I just wait for a quiet gap in lane 2, flip the indicator right and off it goes straight away (ACC was set to 80 for assertive overtakes.)

Indicate left (so lane keep knows not to interfere), pull in let it lock onto my pet lorry and readjust the gap (always set to long range)

Only issue is some people are poor at joining main roads and I don't see why I should move over when I have right of way. Set to the longest gap most people have good room to merge in front of me, I sometimes help by temporarily reducing the set speed to say 45mph and then manually top up my speed with the throttle to match the joiners spacing, they usually then move to lane 2 and speed off so I set back to 80 and resume my pet lorry follow.

I follow lorries instead of running free for several reasons, they have good visibility ahead from the height of the cab, they are skilled at anticipating the situation ahead as you have to be in a heavy truck, my car can brake much quicker than them so if they can stop, I can for sure, although ACC can read a situation quicker than a human can.

I do pay attention around me all the time and sure some longer journey take 10 - 15 minutes longer, but I arrive non stressed and safe. I would never buy another vehicle ever again without ACC & Lane keeping assist.

 

[PeteB]

1 hour ago, Rav Rob said:

...Some people seem to have issues with the ACC but I don't...

...I would never buy another vehicle ever again without ACC & Lane keeping assist.

I'm with you on both counts.

I love that ACC can be set down to 18 mph in the latest RAV4 - all previous Toyotas and Lexus I've owned and/or driven could only be set to around 28 mph, which made them useless in the proliferating 20 mph zones unless you were following someone doing the limit - a rare breed indeed!

At least the Gen4 Prius had a speed limiter that could be set to 20 - better than nothing.

But I still don't understand why these features can't work right down to 10 mph, or even 5 (on a Hybrid or auto car at least).  I sometimes drive on private estates for up to 2 miles where the limit is 10 or 15 mph and the security people occasionally time vehicles to check they're not exceeding this.  It would be much easier if the ACC or Limiter could be set this low.

Once, in one of London's Royal Parks, I was driving a people carrier in support of a charity event, they claimed I'd been doing 11 mph in their 10 limit zone!

[philip42h]

46 minutes ago, Rav Rob said:

Some people seem to have issues with the ACC but I don't. I do probably up to 2000 miles a month using it.

... and I think that is really the point. However good, bad or indifferent the system may be, you have got used to using it and learned to use the system as a driver aid to your advantage - good for you! Whether others would use it in the same way is neither here nor there ...

[Nick72]

On 8/30/2021 at 11:24 AM, Rav Rob said:

Yes, and it can be disconcerting at first. Some people seem to have issues with the ACC but I don't. I do probably up to 2000 miles a month using it.

On Saturday I did the entire length of the busy A34 with it on 90% the way and lane keeping too, then the same on the M42. Its the nearest thing to train travel you can get in a car!

I tend to pick a lorry that is slightly quicker than most so gets overtaken by other lorries less and lock on at long range let it do its thing. If the lorry catches and overtakes something slower the RAV just closes up a bit and locks onto the slower vehicle instead. Once my 'pet' lorry has built a gap ahead of the slower vehicle, I just wait for a quiet gap in lane 2, flip the indicator right and off it goes straight away (ACC was set to 80 for assertive overtakes.)

Indicate left (so lane keep knows not to interfere), pull in let it lock onto my pet lorry and readjust the gap (always set to long range)

Only issue is some people are poor at joining main roads and I don't see why I should move over when I have right of way. Set to the longest gap most people have good room to merge in front of me, I sometimes help by temporarily reducing the set speed to say 45mph and then manually top up my speed with the throttle to match the joiners spacing, they usually then move to lane 2 and speed off so I set back to 80 and resume my pet lorry follow.

I follow lorries instead of running free for several reasons, they have good visibility ahead from the height of the cab, they are skilled at anticipating the situation ahead as you have to be in a heavy truck, my car can brake much quicker than them so if they can stop, I can for sure, although ACC can read a situation quicker than a human can.

I do pay attention around me all the time and sure some longer journey take 10 - 15 minutes longer, but I arrive non stressed and safe. I would never buy another vehicle ever again without ACC & Lane keeping assist.

 

Great advice and experience. Thanks.

 

Points noted.

[Teefin]

On 8/27/2021 at 2:42 PM, Zoot2 said:

If using Waze the speedo shows 70mph but Waze shows between 3 and 4mph less - ie gps signal shows 67mph. Whether you trust that or not is up to the driver. As far as I’m aware all cars have a slight deviation from the actual speed.

That is correct some are more accurate than others and this will alter with tyre wear as well. The only thing you can be sure of is with a functioning speedometer they will never show a lower speed than actual but may show a higher speed, gps will generally always be the more accurate at a steady speed.