Avensis E5/E10 question

[Anthony18]

Hi all

Totyota have said that the new E10 fuel shouldn't be used in the follwing:

• Avensis 2.0 litre with engine 1AZ-FSE made between July 2000 and October 2008.
• Avensis 2.4 litre with engine 2AZ-FSE made between June 2003 and October 2008.

My question is - my 2.4 2004 avensis engine number starts with 2AZ and then a string of numbers, how do I know if its the FSE? According to wikipedia there is the FSE, FE, and FXE?

Thanks

[FROSTYBALLS]

The Avensis of your vintage did use the 2AZ-FSE.

[Anthony18]

Cheers

[Bob999]

Hi all,

I'm also having the same problem trying to work out if my vehicle is compatible with the new E10 fuel? The engine model isn't stated in the owners manual and I can't find the number on the engine.

If anyone out there would be good enough to help me out, I'd be most grateful.

I've got an Avensis Estate (Tourer) 2006.

2.0 litre. VVT-i T Spirit. Petrol.

 

Many thanks in advance

[FROSTYBALLS]

No - it uses the 1AZ-FSE which isn't compatible with E10.

[Bob999]

1 minute ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

No - it uses the 1AZ-FSE which isn't compatible with E10.

 

Ah, shoots!

Thanks for getting back to me so promptly, Frosty.

[joyne]

No problems with E10 on my 1AZ-FSE engine. Only consumption has increased a bit. I think the problem would be with the pipes. If they have been changed then it should not be a problem.

Or you can ask your local toyota dealer for more information.

[Konrad C]

On 9/22/2021 at 5:45 PM, joyne said:

No problems with E10 on my 1AZ-FSE engine. Only consumption has increased a bit. I think the problem would be with the pipes. If they have been changed then it should not be a problem.

Or you can ask your local toyota dealer for more information.

Can you give reports on experience over the coming months please? Your car could be a sort of actual test, to see if and what the affects of E10 on components, performance and economy. How long you have been using E10 fuel? I am sure it takes time, for any issues to take affect.

Must add that Toyota should add the specific reason why E10 is a problem, like seals, gaskets, metal or material being eroded by E10. 

[joyne]

I don't know why Toyota added this engine as incompatible with E10, but in my country this gasoline has been used for at least 5-6 years, maybe even more. I guess that's enough to give you an opinion.

[Cessna]

It may just be that it was not specifically designed for E10, so they cannot categorically say it will be ok and do not want to leave themselves open to legal action (or just getting a bad reputation) by saying it is ok without knowing 100% that it is.

[Konrad C]

16 hours ago, joyne said:

I don't know why Toyota added this engine as incompatible with E10, but in my country this gasoline has been used for at least 5-6 years, maybe even more. I guess that's enough to give you an opinion.

Toyota are not the only ones. Other manufacturers have similar direct injection engines made in the late 90's, early to mid 2000's that are also not compatible with E10. Ford, Vauxhall(Opel), Mitsubishi(Volvo), Volkswagen to name a few have engines that are not compatible. Toyota for me are far from the worse as very few models used the 1AZ/2AZ engines. Volkswagen Audi Group are the worse, because they have both direct injection (not compatible to E10) and non-direct injection (compatible), of the same capacity in the same models. Not many owners are technical minded, bothered or even aware what engines they have or even if the fuel is different. The first an unaware owner of an incompatible car will know, is when the car has engine and running problems! 
   

[morpheusro]

So what happens if E10 is used in an 1AZ-FSE engine, like T25 2006, 2.0 vvti ?

L.E. I have found this:https://www.e10info.eu/what-is-e10/

L.E.2 Ok, I think I know... it can lead to corrosion due to ethanol in the gasoline. Right?

But still... I would like to understand the exact reason why that engine can't or has issues with E10.

Thank you.

[Konrad C]

1 hour ago, morpheusro said:

So what happens if E10 is used in an 1AZ-FSE engine, like T25 2006, 2.0 vvti ?

 

L.E. I have found this:https://www.e10info.eu/what-is-e10/

L.E.2 Ok, I think I know... it can lead to corrosion due to ethanol in the gasoline. Right?

 

But still... I would like to understand the exact reason why that engine can't or has issues with E10.

Thank you.

I too wanted to know why early gasoline direct injection engines (GDI) are incompatible with E10, and found the following:- https://autotechnician.co.uk/forewarned-is-forearmed-e10-petrol/

All of the incompatible GDI engines are no longer produced, or have been updated. The problem is, there are cars still on the road with these engines, plus not every fuel station supplies the premium (still E5) petrol in a lot of locations! GDI engines already have other problems, like carbon build up in the inlet manifold and valves.

[morpheusro]

1 hour ago, Konrad C said:

I too wanted to know why early gasoline direct injection engines (GDI) are incompatible with E10, and found the following:- https://autotechnician.co.uk/forewarned-is-forearmed-e10-petrol/

All of the incompatible GDI engines are no longer produced, or have been updated. The problem is, there are cars still on the road with these engines, plus not every fuel station supplies the premium (still E5) petrol in a lot of locations! GDI engines already have other problems, like carbon build up in the inlet manifold and valves.

Thanks for the article, very good.

Meanwhile... I've found this: https://www.eurocarparts.com/p/wynn-s-e10-fuel-protector-250ml-1x-bottle-treats-5x-full-tanks-555770474

What do you guys think?

 

[Konrad C]

I was looking in the owners manual PDF (T27 Avensis) regarding another subject, and came across this under Refueling - 
I then checked my actual paper back version, which is the first version for the T27, and found the same info regarding E10 fuel -

X Gasoline engine EU area: Unleaded gasoline conforming to European standard EN228, Research Octane Number of 95 or higher 

Except EU area: Unleaded gasoline, Research Octane Number of 95 or higher

■Use of ethanol blended gasoline in a gasoline engine Toyota allows the use of ethanol blended gasoline where the ethanol content is up to 10%. Make sure that the ethanol blended gasoline to be used has a Research Octane Number that follows the above. 

So all Valvematic engines should have no issue using E10 fuel, which has been available in other markets outside UK for sometime. 
 

[morpheusro]

True for T27, but it seems not true for T25 with 1AZ-FSE where it's a problem. However, what exactly happens is not that clear. I understand that E10 fuel might corrode fuel lines, rubber hoses become brittle, some rubber seals break down, extra carbon deposit in the intake, EGR  clogging up, the engine might run very lean (but the ECU should compensate for that) and that the oil will be contaminated by the E10's high oxygen/ethanol as it is possible to have water vaporization during combustion and that means more frequent oil changes. (I also learned that the E10 fuel is breaking down much faster than regular fuel, like in 4-6 weeks compared to normal fuel that breaks down in 6months+)

But these are general things... what exactly is the actual problem for 1AZ-FSE engine? I still haven't figured it out.

[Cyker]

It's not so much that it breaks down, rather it tends to soak up water from the air over time, which sinks to the bottom of the tank.

The only people that will have a problem with this are people who don't drive the car enough (and probably don't need a car!) - Just driving it regularly will be enough to stop the water settling out, and by the time it would have the chances are that tank would have been used up anyway!

 

[morpheusro]

10 hours ago, Cyker said:

It's not so much that it breaks down, rather it tends to soak up water from the air over time, which sinks to the bottom of the tank.

The only people that will have a problem with this are people who don't drive the car enough (and probably don't need a car!) - Just driving it regularly will be enough to stop the water settling out, and by the time it would have the chances are that tank would have been used up anyway!

 

Alright! Thanks!