E10 petrol for hybrid engine, or not?

[AndrueC]

19 hours ago, Stivino said:

The results of my tests are as such;  I’ve used nothing but the cheapest supermarket fuel I can get my hands on for as long as I can remember, probably since the supermarkets started to dominate the fuel market and, I can honestly say that I’ve not seen any deterioration in performance, economy, or reliability.

Same here although to be honest I don't really think about it. I typically fill up at my local Tesco more out of habit than anything else. I don't even look at the price since in my experience it's only a couple of pence difference per litre anyway although with Tesco I will earn points for my purchase.

But I've always taken the view that you fill 'er up, you burn it and the car moves. To me there's normally(*) no need to make it any more complicated than that 🙂

(*)With the rare significant change like introduction of unleaded or increased ethanol.

[Luke717]

On 9/19/2021 at 11:15 AM, AndrueC said:

I've noticed this year that my summer mpg hasn't been as good. However I can think of three possible explanations:

* The weather. It's been a bit odd and we know that can have an effect.

* E10 fuel. No idea if/when that's what I started filling up with. I  normally buy from Tesco so it's anyone's guess what ends up in my tank.

* No commuting. Hybrids are best when pottering around town and I've done very little of that over the last 18 months. Most of my driving is on the open road and that's just not where hybrids are at their best.

I'm still managing over 60mpg but only just. The car is usually showing 64 on the dash where's previous summers it was 69.

I did think last summer was pretty normal though so perhaps the lack of commuting isn't the answer.

Similar picture here - average MPG this year not as good as last year. This year, it's not got past 62.8 where last year it was 65+ on average. Hard to put a finger on the reason as my driving isn't that much different. I work from home 100% and have been doing so for well over a decade so the pandemic this year hasn't changed my driving behaviour other than driving less than I did before and mostly on shorter trips overall.

I tend to pay more attention to MPG and other metrics for individual trips. With many of those, I'm frequently seeing MPG figures beyond 75 MPG with matching high figures for Battery power instead of engine. Even on motorway cruises, most trips are in the high 60s. On one recent trip I was in a huge jam on the M25, stop/start driving, for about an hour. That helped get the MPG figure for that trip into the low 70s.

E10 isn't a factor at all as I've always used 99-octane fuel, nearly always Shell V-Power. Topping up with Shell E10 since the beginning of September, giving it a whirl, but not seeing any difference at all yet.

[TonyHSD]

2 minutes ago, Luke717 said:

Similar picture here - average MPG this year not as good as last year. This year, it's not got past 62.8 where last year it was 65+ on average. Hard to put a finger on the reason as my driving isn't that much different. I work from home 100% and have been doing so for well over a decade so the pandemic this year hasn't changed my driving behaviour other than driving less than I did before and mostly on shorter trips overall.

I tend to pay more attention to MPG and other metrics for individual trips. With many of those, I'm frequently seeing MPG figures beyond 75 MPG with matching high figures for battery power instead of engine. Even on motorway cruises, most trips are in the high 60s. On one recent trip I was in a huge jam on the M25, stop/start driving, for about an hour. That helped get the MPG figure for that trip into the low 70s.

E10 isn't a factor at all as I've always used 99-octane fuel, nearly always Shell V-Power. Topping up with Shell E10 since the beginning of September, giving it a whirl, but not seeing any difference at all yet.

 

 

Perhaps the air temperature, last year was better weather through out the whole of the summer, higher average temperatures. Wind, rain and low temperatures affects the hybrids as twice as much in comparison with standard ice cars since those are affecting not only the engine but the Battery too. 👍

[mpm235]

Fuel consumption with E10 will be bit worse.  E10 has less energy in it than E5, so you will have to burn more of it to take your car a given distance. The fuel companies and Government say it will be a bit worse, but only by a slightly barely noticeable in real world driving. Anecdotal evidence from places it's been around for while (USA, mainland Europe), suggests the difference ranges from the official slightly worse up to 5% or 10% worse. 

 

Whilst any drop in MPG, imposed for eco -mentalist humbug reasons, is very annoying, I'm also wondering about E10 (ethanol) affecting peoples' EGRs. The EGR valve/circuit getting caked up with carbon can be a problem for my 2014 Auris Hybrid (also for Gen 3 Prius and Prius Plus). I'm not really worried about mine; I've had my Auris under two months, was only 30k miles and I do plenty of mileage above 40 mph, which is recommended by Toyota to keep the EGR clean. However, EGRs getting clogged with carbon seems to be a particularly prevalent problem in the USA (lot of info about it on the Prius Chat forum), where they have been running on ethanol petrol for quite some time. As such, I am going to stick to premium grade petrol (the new E5, Jet Ultra and BP Ultimate, from the stations I pass on my way to/from work), for as long as I've got my Auris.

[TonyHSD]

Here an interesting video about bio fuel 

 

[Catlover]

All, on Tuesday I was at Costco, decided I would put some fuel in, but chickened out from the E10. I put 5 gallons of E5 Kirkland petrol in. It was 1.36 per litre E5 compared to 1.29 for E10, so it cost me about £1.55 more for the 5 gallons. I will go with that for the time being, I know the car runs well on Kirkland juice.

[mcntosh]

9 hours ago, mpm235 said:

 As such, I am going to stick to premium grade petrol (the new E5, Jet Ultra and BP Ultimate, from the stations I pass on my way to/from work), for as long as I've got my Auris.

I’ve thought about doing this in the past,  but the loss in MPG with E10 vs E5 might finally swing me towards premium. My plan is to monitor my fill ups with E10 over the next couple of months and see if there’s a consistent drop in MPG.

[Catlover]

I will carry on with E5 and listen to everyone else carefully.

[50p]

10 hours ago, Catlover said:

All, on Tuesday I was at Costco, decided I would put some fuel in, but chickened out from the E10. I put 5 gallons of E5 Kirkland petrol in. It was 1.36 per litre E5 compared to 1.29 for E10, so it cost me about £1.55 more for the 5 gallons. I will go with that for the time being, I know the car runs well on Kirkland juice.

I will have to drive to Cheshire for some cheap E10!! 😉

[Catlover]

10 minutes ago, 50p said:

I will have to drive to Cheshire for some cheap E10!! 😉

Must be a Costco somewhere near you. It’s membership so there is a criteria you have meet, but it’s quite wide.

[Cyker]

There's a Sainsburys in Watford that was 128.9 a few days ago for normal E10 - That's a bit closer to you than Cheshire!  

[Roy124]

1 hour ago, mcntosh said:

I’ve thought about doing this in the past,  but the loss in MPG with E10 vs E5 might finally swing me towards premium. My plan is to monitor my fill ups with E10 over the next couple of months and see if there’s a consistent drop in MPG.

I can guarantee a drop in your MPG as winter draws in. 

[Catlover]

9 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

I can guarantee a drop in your MPG as winter draws in. 

That’s true.

[50p]

I've not experienced a winter with the corolla yet. Not sure about mileage, but if gas prices keep increasing I may stay in the car with the heater on! 😉

[mcntosh]

2 hours ago, Roy124 said:

I can guarantee a drop in your MPG as winter draws in. 

 

2 hours ago, Catlover said:

That’s true.

Good point. I have stats for the last two winters so could maybe use them to compare. However, I don’t stick with one brand of E5 and have even filled up with Shell V-power on occasion.

I’m probably over-thinking this and should try to get out a bit more… 

[TonyHSD]

Been on premium 99 since the E10 came out and rocking 62mpg on average which is pretty good for my old car. Last week weather was windy and rainy here in Hertfordshire and I lost 6mpg immediately. Then my car developed a fault with a speed sensor and I lost even more since the car drove very unusual  without any regenerative braking and Battery constantly draining even when waiting at traffic lights, I didn’t drive a lot like that but long enough to see even more mpg dropped down to 49, back to 60’s after all and I did fill up 99 E5 again.👍 

[Red_Corolla]

I'm still on the first tank supplied by the dealership, so I expect it's E10! 

Still learning how to drive the car efficiently and how it's affected by speed, traffic conditions etc.

I did my first decent runs this week - 115 miles each way to Kettering & back with most miles on the A1. Going down, with light traffic, I drove to 70 on the A1, averaged 54mph and got 53mpg. Coming back in Friday traffic, I limited it to 60 (except while overtaking slow wagons) and spent some time crawling in jams. This reduced my average speed to 41mph but boosted the economy to 67mpg (these figures come from the myT app so make of them what you will).

The rest of the tank has been used for short trips and I've averaged 54mpg overall, which is pretty much what I was hoping for out of the 2.0 estate.

[mpm235]

12 hours ago, Catlover said:

That’s true.

Most definitely

[Roy124]

 

Red, I think your experience is typical as you learn to drive again 😉.  The more significant figures are the 60-70 consumption mpg as the slow traffic probably effected your average speed more than consumption. 

Just looked at my annual driving figures and while my winter worst month was 54 my annual average is 62.

However I think my mileage is atypical due to.... with less than 600 miles per month jumping to 1 000 from May. EV time and distance follow the same curve as consumption.  

[mpm235]

8 hours ago, Red_Corolla said:

I'm still on the first tank supplied by the dealership, so I expect it's E10! 

Still learning how to drive the car efficiently and how it's affected by speed, traffic conditions etc.

I did my first decent runs this week - 115 miles each way to Kettering & back with most miles on the A1. Going down, with light traffic, I drove to 70 on the A1, averaged 54mph and got 53mpg. Coming back in Friday traffic, I limited it to 60 (except while overtaking slow wagons) and spent some time crawling in jams. This reduced my average speed to 41mph but boosted the economy to 67mpg (these figures come from the myT app so make of them what you will).

The rest of the tank has been used for short trips and I've averaged 54mpg overall, which is pretty much what I was hoping for out of the 2.0 estate.

54mpg is certainly decent for a 2.0. What size wheels do you have 16" or 17"?  (I'm thinking about 4 years into the future, when it comes time to trade my Auris in, I quite fancy a 2.0 Corolla Touring), cheers, Mark

[Red_Corolla]

14 hours ago, mpm235 said:

54mpg is certainly decent for a 2.0. What size wheels do you have 16" or 17"?  (I'm thinking about 4 years into the future, when it comes time to trade my Auris in, I quite fancy a 2.0 Corolla Touring), cheers, Mark

Thanks Mark. I have the Design model with 17" wheels. 16 would be a better choice for comfort but, all things considered (looks, features etc), Design was the right one for me.

[mpm235]

7 hours ago, Red_Corolla said:

Thanks Mark. I have the Design model with 17" wheels. 16 would be a better choice for comfort but, all things considered (looks, features etc), Design was the right one for me.

Cheers Stuart, 54 mpg is great for 17" wheels. Superb car, might be treating myself to one when Auris is a few years older.

[Stopeter44]

On 9/21/2021 at 10:47 PM, Cyker said:

It's funny seeing how different the news is presented over there to here!  

But good grief, imagine having a 100 mile school run every day here?! All parents would be bankrupt with our fuel prices!!!  

Yep, just shows how bad children are for the environment ! Seriously, the lady has a choice, she just chooses to drive that far for her children's schooling.

[Luke717]

I've topped up the tank a number of times only with E10 since early September, equivalent to two tankfulls. I've done a few long 200-mile trips in this time, mostly motorway. But honestly, I can't see any difference in MPG or performance from E5 which I had used exclusively since buying my Corolla in June 2020.

I am noticing the price difference, though. Where I am in West Berkshire, regular E10 unleaded typically goes for £1.39 a litre, with premium E5 at £1.52. Quite a gap there.

[TonyHSD]

I decided to fill up E10 yesterday morning and immediately felt the difference straight after coming out from the garage as it’s dual carriageway 50 speed and I have to accelerate faster than in town when 30mph, the engine sounds like there is no oil in and the car is not as agile as it was with last few full tanks of E5. It seems different cars like different fuels. Tomorrow back to Tesco for fresh premium from them, my auris loves it. 👌⛽️ Not sure where the difference comes from the E factor or the octane number?!🤔