Remap for petrol hybrid

[Flatcoat]

The new RAV4 hybrid is on my shortlist but it is the least powerful. The VW PHEV can be remapped by a significant amount. Is there a remap or tuning box available for the latest hybrid? 

[ernieb]

Had you considered the RAV4 PHEV, that’s already 302hp and 0-60mph 5.7 secs?

[Flatcoat]

Yes however I don’t have another £10,000 and additional £340 a year RFL!! 

[Catlover]

what would a remap do to 1) Toyota warranty 2) your insurance

[Flatcoat]

Those are for me to deal with and with all due respect are not answering my enquiry, I have had cars remapped for over 20 years without any problems. 

[Catlover]

Glad you already have it in mind, it’s easy to forget things like that.

[ernieb]

You obviously know it’s an Atkinson cycle engine but I guess your best bet is to contact one of the companies you’ve already used in the last 20 years. From your reply to Joe you’ve plenty of faith in there abilities.

[Flatcoat]

As I suspected there is no tuning solution for the Atkinson engine. In some ways being a large capacity non turbo appeals. The concern is peak torque is at high revs. Does anyone know if there is a torque graph available for this engine? The best advice I had is use premium fuel (Vpower etc) and get the engine well run-in using its full potential Italian style…. 

[philip42h]

29 minutes ago, Flatcoat said:

As I suspected there is no tuning solution for the Atkinson engine. In some ways being a large capacity non turbo appeals. The concern is peak torque is at high revs. Does anyone know if there is a torque graph available for this engine? The best advice I had is use premium fuel (Vpower etc) and get the engine well run-in using its full potential Italian style…. 

I rather doubt that there is any real value in using premium fuels - obviously the cleaning additives are benefit but the higher RON is not worth the investment. Just stick with E10 95 ...

Yes, peak torque from the petrol engine is at higher revs - much lower than a tuned petrol, but higher than a diesel. But don't forget that all the low down shove comes from the electric motors - peak torque at 0 rpm. The blend works ...

[flash22]

You can tune any engine - finding a tuner willing to do it is another matter, the car need to put into dyno mode, so the engine runs constantly while tuning, looking at other Toyota ecu's it will have to be bench tuned by clipping or wiring it directly the other alternative is to go with a piggyback ecu

perhaps the hybrid platform isn't suited to your use case, Toyota hybrids are tuned for economy not power

peak torque is around 3.6 to 4.8K rpm for the A25A-FXS, 2020 on has the higher output of 302 bhp combined (PHEV)

[flash22]

https://global.toyota/en/powertrain/engine/

[ernieb]

I’m not sure if the setup is the same with the HEV but on the PHEV the engine mapping appears to be a function of the state of the Battery. I’ve detected the ICE running at higher revs than I’d thought were needed at a slow road speed so mapped to get a good charge back into the Battery.  The ICE kicks in when driven hard with higher engine revs. I wonder that any manipulation of the mapping would work against the ECU wanting to recharge the Battery. As I’ve said this might not be applicable to the HEV model. That said, Toyota have been at this a long time and there is little doubt in my mind that in this area they have got it balanced better than many of the competitors in this market with excellent mpg.

[Yugguy1970]

I've also noticed this on my hev when the Battery was on 3 bars out of 8.

[Flatcoat]

I have had diesels for over 35 years and tuned for over 20 however SWMBO is adamant out next car will not be diesel! My current car is a diesel PHEV with 4wd, 300+ horses and close to 600nm combined torque…. We tow extensively across Europe into Austria/Italy and so on which involves extensive long hills. It is understanding the torque curve to ensure the car will cope comfortably. Does anyone know the HEV 4WD combined system power and torque figures? 

[Yugguy1970]

222bhp and 221nm at 3600-5200 for the awd, according to the latest price list.  Torque is the same for 2wd or awd but 2wd power a little less at 218bhp.

Honestly it doesn't sound as if the regular hev is the car for you.  It was never marketed as a fast SUV and isn't designed that way.

If you want performance you need the phev.

[Flatcoat]

Thanks, I could only find the system BHP. That combined torque seems very low for a hybrid. Comparable hybrid Hyundai is 350nm. It is not performance per se, it is literally pulling power and as I have previously stated I do not have RAV4 PHEV budget. If I need a PHEV it will be VW or MG……

[philip42h]

37 minutes ago, Flatcoat said:

I have had diesels for over 35 years and tuned for over 20 however SWMBO is adamant out next car will not be diesel! My current car is a diesel PHEV with 4wd, 300+ horses and close to 600nm combined torque…. We tow extensively across Europe into Austria/Italy and so on which involves extensive long hills. It is understanding the torque curve to ensure the car will cope comfortably. Does anyone know the HEV 4WD combined system power and torque figures? 

I'd be tempted to give SWMBO the choice: a diesel and touring holidays or a hybrid and no towing. As I'm sure you know, the best thing for towing is still a diesel ... 😉

What is it that you tow? What weight do you want to tow?

The RAV4 HEV goes up to 1640 kg; the PHEV is limited to 1500 kg (I think). If you want to tow with a Toyota Hybrid you probably should look at the Highlander - same engine and basic set-up but tows up to 2000 kg. 

[Flatcoat]

Believe me I have tried that….. A 1500kg caravan but the highlander is £expensive. 

[ernieb]

Just out of interest Toyota do not state a combined torque for the PHEV but individually for the front and rear motors, 270Nm and 121Nm respectively.

[Flatcoat]

Nearly every other manufacturer provides combined power and torque data….. combined is not simple addition. 

[ernieb]

Agreed, which is why I keep looking to see if someone has the PHEV tested, it does appear to have plenty of grunt when on the road.

[philip42h]

17 minutes ago, Flatcoat said:

Believe me I have tried that….. A 1500kg caravan but the highlander is £expensive. 

OK, so the PHEV is out - in terms of cost and that weight is too close to the limit.

The HEV should be able to tow 1500 kg comfortably - just not as comfortably as what you currently have. What is that BTW?

I'm really not sure that a claimed 'combined torque' figure is entirely meaningful. From rest the HEV will give you 202 + 121 = 323 Nm torque (from the front and rear motors) to get you going. Once you are up to speed that may well drop to 221 Nm when / if the petrol engine is doing all the work. On the hills you'd expect the electric motors to help out again, but how much may well depend on how long the hills are ...

No, I know that doesn't help much ... 😉

[Flatcoat]

 Not worried by weight on the limit. It is legal. The MG PHEV has a tow limit of 1500kg but to me as a public sector worker it is £27k for top spec. However I really prefer the security of 4wd and am reluctant to go over £40k, if I had been comfortable spending that budget I would have ordered a Santa Fe or Sportage PHEV. 

[Heidfirst]

3 hours ago, Flatcoat said:

 if I had been comfortable spending that budget I would have ordered a Santa Fe or Sportage PHEV. 

Fwiw Autoexpress just tested the RAV4 PHEV vs Sorento PHEV https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/kia/sorento/355918/toyota-rav4-vs-kia-sorento

Yes, I know that  it's dearer than a Santa Fe or Sportage. 😉

spoiler - the RAV4 won.

 

[Flatcoat]

The Santa Fe is bigger and the 7 seats would be an added bonus for us (grandchildren) albeit the RAV4 has more horses. There is an Australian video test (2 actually) of a RAV4 Hybrid and MG HS PHEV which make interesting viewing. What the test doesn’t say is the added cost of bringing the RAV upto HS spec with 360 camera and sunroof albeit the RAV has bigger boot and con Ed it probably had better real world mpg.