Cruise control ... I must be an idiot?

[Nick72]

No need to answer that LOL but...

Just on my way back from work I thought I'd try the cruise control.

Pressed the cruise button on the wheel then pressed set. Cruise speed was then set to the speed limit so I assumed that this was the RSA part.

But...

I was unable to change the speed by pressing plus and minus on the control. When i tried this it just disabled the cruise control.

Further, despite the 3 bars being set for adaptive cruise as seen on the display the car showed zero signs of slowing or stopping coming up to a stationary car in front. I left it as late as i dared and had to hit the brakes reasonably hard.

What am i missing or doing wrong?

Looked at the manual already but it was as clear as mud. Any tips appreciated. 

Thanks each.

N

[philip42h]

No one will ever know what you actually did ... 😉

When you press the cruise control button you enable cruise control - in dynamic radar control mode ... blah, blah, blah. When you then press 'Set' it sets the cruise speed to your current speed. This has nothing whatsoever to do with the RSA stuff - I'd guess that you were sensibly driving at the speed limit.

Since further pressing of stuff just disabled cruise control I'd suspect fat finger syndrome - i.e. as well as or instead of hitting the + or - button you also hit the Cancel button - conveniently placed between the two.

When approaching the stationary car you had either:

• Cruise control switched off having previously hit Cancel, and were, therefore just coasting, or
• You'd pressed the cruise control button for long enough to set 'constant speed' control mode (rather than 'dynamic radar') which precisely controls the speed that you will hit the car in front (unless you take avoiding action)

Fun isn't it ... 😉

(When I took the car out for a test drive, I couldn't get cruise control to work - I was already on my second RAV4 but Toyota had switched from a control stalk that I knew intimately to these steering wheel buttons that I'd never met before.)

[ernieb]

Nick,

Mine works as expected, I did however test it on a quiet start road only a few over cars around.I needed time to concentrate on my driving and see what the ACC was doing. The speed/down buttons will depend on how you have set the customisation settings as they will perform different things and as you say can be linked to RSA and automatic speed at the road limit. (So in a 40mph that would be the speed, not so much fun if you’ve just come out of a 70mph into a 40mph and it’s missed the sign then you still travel at 70mph - guess why I unlinked my setting?)

You can also customise the up/down buttons to be 1 or 5mph, however, I’ve found this a flakey not always happy experience, there meant to be shirt and long press options, I had trouble in defining what  is a short or a long press as sometimes a long press just accelerated the car. 
 

The braking to a stop appears to be linked to the setting for how close you are tracking the car in front.

Not much help, sorry, but like every car with new gadgets or technology I’ve every driven it takes time to get into the mind of the design engineer and then the implementation by the software engineer.

[Nick72]

4 hours ago, philip42h said:

No one will ever know what you actually did ... 😉

When you press the cruise control button you enable cruise control - in dynamic radar control mode ... blah, blah, blah. When you then press 'Set' it sets the cruise speed to your current speed. This has nothing whatsoever to do with the RSA stuff - I'd guess that you were sensibly driving at the speed limit.

Since further pressing of stuff just disabled cruise control I'd suspect fat finger syndrome - i.e. as well as or instead of hitting the + or - button you also hit the Cancel button - conveniently placed between the two.

When approaching the stationary car you had either:

• Cruise control switched off having previously hit Cancel, and were, therefore just coasting, or
• You'd pressed the cruise control button for long enough to set 'constant speed' control mode (rather than 'dynamic radar') which precisely controls the speed that you will hit the car in front (unless you take avoiding action)

Fun isn't it ... 😉

(When I took the car out for a test drive, I couldn't get cruise control to work - I was already on my second RAV4 but Toyota had switched from a control stalk that I knew intimately to these steering wheel buttons that I'd never met before.)

Thanks. Could be fat fingers. I best make sure I am pressing the edge of the circle to avoid pressing the middle bit. I really thought I was but maybe i wasn't.

Perhaps i didnt have adaptive radar cruise activated despite the 3 bars showing for distance on the MID but definitely wasn't coasting. It was going happily and seemed to set itself to the speed limit. But wasn't for slowing or stopping. I was in a 50mph dual carriageway coming up to the lights and another car in front.

 

 

 

 

[Nick72]

3 hours ago, ernieb said:

Nick,

Mine works as expected, I did however test it on a quiet start road only a few over cars around.I needed time to concentrate on my driving and see what the ACC was doing. The speed/down buttons will depend on how you have set the customisation settings as they will perform different things and as you say can be linked to RSA and automatic speed at the road limit. (So in a 40mph that would be the speed, not so much fun if you’ve just come out of a 70mph into a 40mph and it’s missed the sign then you still travel at 70mph - guess why I unlinked my setting?)

You can also customise the up/down buttons to be 1 or 5mph, however, I’ve found this a flakey not always happy experience, there meant to be shirt and long press options, I had trouble in defining what  is a short or a long press as sometimes a long press just accelerated the car. 
 

The braking to a stop appears to be linked to the setting for how close you are tracking the car in front.

Not much help, sorry, but like every car with new gadgets or technology I’ve every driven it takes time to get into the mind of the design engineer and then the implementation by the software engineer.

Thanks. Think I need to experiment Ernie. It was all a bit weird. I guess I just want to enable ACC and set it to the speed I want and have it stick to it and apply braking as per the 1 to 3 bars of distance. Just can't figure it out. Will be experimenting. Can't make head nor tail of the manual. Might be a youtube video I can watch.

[philip42h]

32 minutes ago, Nick72 said:

Perhaps i didnt have adaptive radar cruise activated despite the 3 bars showing for distance on the MID but definitely wasn't coasting. It was going happily and seemed to set itself to the speed limit. But wasn't for slowing or stopping. I was in a 50mph dual carriageway coming up to the lights and another car in front.

I had to go out and sit in the car to check ... the 3 bars show only when radar cruise is activated - whether or not a speed is set; they don't show when you have a constant speed set; they don't show when cruise is off.

So, from what you say, radar cruise was selected and a speed of 50 mph was set. At this point I'd start to become concerned that radar cruise was not working correctly - specifically the radar bit - do a very controlled test with a view to taking it back to the dealer ... 😞

[Cyker]

Yeah, that doesn't sound right - When my Yaris is set to maximum distance (i.e. 3 bars) the car will brake from a ridiculously long distance when it 'sees' a car in front of it (I usually use 1 bar in town or 2 bars on the motorway - 3 is just too far and makes people try to overtake me!); It doesn't let me get anywhere close enough to feel I need to brake!!

One thing to check - On mine the 'cruise control' button is actually a rocker switch; The first time I used it I didn't realise this, and it turned out if I rock it down it turns on the Speed Limiter instead of the cruise control! Not sure if the RAV4 has something similar as I know the button layout is different...

 

[Yugguy1970]

Are you pressing the limiter button, not the cruise one?

[Nick72]

2 hours ago, philip42h said:

I had to go out and sit in the car to check ... the 3 bars show only when radar cruise is activated - whether or not a speed is set; they don't show when you have a constant speed set; they don't show when cruise is off.

So, from what you say, radar cruise was selected and a speed of 50 mph was set. At this point I'd start to become concerned that radar cruise was not working correctly - specifically the radar bit - do a very controlled test with a view to taking it back to the dealer ... 😞

Sounds faulty because the radar cruise or ACC should work from 0mph and brake etc to maintain a safe distance. It definitely wasn't doing any of that. The 3 bars definitely on the MID and had previously pressed set after it told me radar was ready. Showed zero signs of slowing or stopping with cars in front.

Cheers buddy.

[Nick72]

2 hours ago, Cyker said:

Yeah, that doesn't sound right - When my Yaris is set to maximum distance (i.e. 3 bars) the car will brake from a ridiculously long distance when it 'sees' a car in front of it (I usually use 1 bar in town or 2 bars on the motorway - 3 is just too far and makes people try to overtake me!); It doesn't let me get anywhere close enough to feel I need to brake!!

One thing to check - On mine the 'cruise control' button is actually a rocker switch; The first time I used it I didn't realise this, and it turned out if I rock it down it turns on the Speed Limiter instead of the cruise control! Not sure if the RAV4 has something similar as I know the button layout is different...

 

Yeh it's a circle or ring type button. One side is limited and other is cruise control. Definitely in cruise control. Said radar ready before I pressed set.

[Nick72]

1 hour ago, Yugguy1970 said:

Are you pressing the limiter button, not the cruise one?

Definitely cruise. Unless it says radar ready when you set the limiter which would be odd.

[Nick72]

I just watched about 467 videos on YouTube on how to 'use the cruise'. I was doing everything right. So here are the two issues I now need to get to the bottom of with further experimentation...

1. Why the car was showing no signs of slowing or stopping when dynamic/  adaptive cruise control was set.

2. Why I couldn't adjust speed using the plus and minus at the top and bottom of the ring. It just resulted in cruise being cancelled. That could be finger trouble but I'm sure it wasn't given the number of attempts I made. I am wondering if it is linking to RSA as I think that is a feature. If so I need to disable that somehow. I want to set my own speed thank you very much.

[philip42h]

On (1) the manual describes numerous circumstances under which dynamic radar cruise control might NOT detect the vehicle in front. If you are following a car along a straight-ish, level-ish road it most certainly should detect the car in front and slow when it does. It might not on hills, winding roads and when the vehicle in question is stopped before it is detected. Only you know the exact circumstances.

On mine the linkage between DRCC and RSA was and is 'off' by default. If enabled, all it really does is allow the driver to accelerate or slow to the indicated speed limit by a "press and hold" of + or - button. If the set speed is the same as the indicated speed limit then pressing and holding the + or - button will have no effect. When in linked mode the speed limit icon includes and an up or arrow - and so, shows that it is in effect.

[PeteB]

Both sound like faults to me.

Just occasionally, if I activate or 'resume' ACC when close to a car the radar doesn't always 'see' the car in front straight away and starts accelerating towards it.  But this is very infrequent and it works really well almost all the time (and I use mine a lot).  Have you checked there's no dirt or anything blocking the front radar sensor (it's behind the Toyota symbol on the grille).  Or could it have been damaged?

When ACC is working correctly:

• Using Plus/Minus should always work in 5 mph increments when ACC is active, and as others have said when you press 'set' it locks in the speed you're currently doing.
• RSA is only used if there's a green box around the set speed on your dash display, with either an arrow pointing up at the top or down at the bottom.  This happens when RSA has detected a speed limit that's different to what your CC is set to.  If the box is showing with an up arrow and you press and hold the Plus button, it sets the ACC to the speed limit displayed, same with down arrow and Minus if the displayed limit is lower than the current set speed.
• For example, if your CC is set to 40 mph and that is also the limit displayed by RSA, there's no green box.  If you then enter a 60 limit and RSA correctly changes to this, there'll be a green box with an 'up' arrow.  If you press and hold the Plus button, your ACC set speed goes straight too 60 mph.

Sorry that's a bit long winded, hope it helps a little.

[Nick72]

3 minutes ago, philip42h said:

On (1) the manual describes numerous circumstances under which dynamic radar cruise control might NOT detect the vehicle in front. If you are following a car along a straight-ish, level-ish road it most certainly should detect the car in front and slow when it does. It might not on hills, winding roads and when the vehicle in question is stopped before it is detected. Only you know the exact circumstances.

On mine the linkage between DRCC and RSA was and is 'off' by default. If enabled, all it really does is allow the driver to accelerate or slow to the indicated speed limit by a "press and hold" of + or - button. If the set speed is the same as the indicated speed limit then pressing and holding the + or - button will have no effect. When in linked mode the speed limit icon includes and an up or arrow - and so, shows that it is in effect.

Thanks Philip. Just been re reading that in the manual. I now recall switching on the DRCC with RSA on as an option over the weekend but I should still have been able to set speeds by short press of + or -.

Road was straight and level, not bending. Radar definitely had a good view of the cars in front.

Think I'll try switching off DRCC with RSA in the setting options. Then repeat just in case there was something odd there. Still doesn't explain why it wasn't detecting the car in front. Particularly the car stopped at the lights in front of me when I was doing mph. Unless it brakes really very late even with 3 bars. Manual says this is 50m at 50mph. That seems pretty short at that speed. So maybe I should have left it to see what happens. But, that didn't seem right. I left it as late as i dared before stepping in.

 

[Nick72]

12 minutes ago, PeteB said:

Both sound like faults to me.

Just occasionally, if I activate or 'resume' ACC when close to a car the radar doesn't always 'see' the car in front straight away and starts accelerating towards it.  But this is very infrequent and it works really well almost all the time (and I use mine a lot).  Have you checked there's no dirt or anything blocking the front radar sensor (it's behind the Toyota symbol on the grille).  Or could it have been damaged?

When ACC is working correctly:

• Using Plus/Minus should always work in 5 mph increments when ACC is active, and as others have said when you press 'set' it locks in the speed you're currently doing.
• RSA is only used if there's a green box around the set speed on your dash display, with either an arrow pointing up at the top or down at the bottom.  This happens when RSA has detected a speed limit that's different to what your CC is set to.  If the box is showing with an up arrow and you press and hold the Plus button, it sets the ACC to the speed limit displayed, same with down arrow and Minus if the displayed limit is lower than the current set speed.
• For example, if your CC is set to 40 mph and that is also the limit displayed by RSA, there's no green box.  If you then enter a 60 limit and RSA correctly changes to this, there'll be a green box with an 'up' arrow.  If you press and hold the Plus button, your ACC set speed goes straight too 60 mph.

Sorry that's a bit long winded, hope it helps a little.

Big help Pete. Both you and Philip's messages. It just didn't seem right and I've used a lot of different adaptive cruise controls before.

I'll check the cover over the radar and look for anything obviously wrong before repeating some tests. If it ain't working right I think I'll need to go to the dealer.

[Yugguy1970]

Yeah this sounds like a fault to me.

On radar if it detects a car to follow you see a car symbol above the bars.  And on 3 bars it stays a long way behind, and plus and minus should change the speed.

A long press on cruise gives you normal cruise with no radar and you can still adjust the speed.  Might be worth seeing If that works, help to pinpoint the issue.

[Nick72]

6 hours ago, Yugguy1970 said:

Yeah this sounds like a fault to me.

On radar if it detects a car to follow you see a car symbol above the bars.  And on 3 bars it stays a long way behind, and plus and minus should change the speed.

A long press on cruise gives you normal cruise with no radar and you can still adjust the speed.  Might be worth seeing If that works, help to pinpoint the issue.

Thanks. Hope to experiment this week. See what happens.  First I'm going to disable the DRCC RSA ... I'm just about understanding all these acronyms! 

[Rav Rob]

Sometimes I (brain on auto pilot) think I have set radar cruise then get surprised its not doing anything, and then find I have accidentally pressed the Trail mode button whilst raiding sweets/drinks in the cupholders. Radar cruise doesn't work in trail mode.

[PeteB]

6 minutes ago, Rav Rob said:

...Radar cruise doesn't work in trail mode.

or if you move the transmission lever to S (Shift) Mode.

I've sometimes tried to hit Plus or Minus without looking and turned it off (something I never did accidentally which the CC controller was a stalk)

[Rav Rob]

11 minutes ago, PeteB said:

or if you move the transmission lever to S (Shift) Mode.

I've sometimes tried to hit Plus or Minus without looking and turned it off (something I never did accidentally which the CC controller was a stalk)

And I would like to give a slap to the designer that put the audio source steering wheel button down among the cruise buttons.. lost count the number of times ended up listening to Medium wave static by accident and have to cycle through things back to what I was enjoying.. Grr

[Nick72]

5 minutes ago, Rav Rob said:

And I would like to give a slap to the designer that put the audio source steering wheel button down among the cruise buttons.. lost count the number of times ended up listening to Medium wave static by accident and have to cycle through things back to what I was enjoying.. Grr

I thought the mixing up of media controls with cruise controls was particularly stupid. 

[Catlover]

Re placements of buttons, with so many features in today’s cars plied with all the goodies we want. (Or don’t want) it must be very difficult to find a reasonable position to place them.  It seems they trying to put as many of these buttons within reach of fingers without too much movement.  In time there is a good chance your brain will know where buttons are and the common ones an individual uses will come to mind easily.

[Nick72]

3 minutes ago, Catlover said:

Re placements of buttons, with so many features in today’s cars plied with all the goodies we want. (Or don’t want) it must be very difficult to find a reasonable position to place them.  It seems they trying to put as many of these buttons within reach of fingers without too much movement.  In time there is a good chance your brain will know where buttons are and the common ones an individual uses will come to mind easily.

I don't know. There are 200 times more buttons in a 4th gen combat aircraft but they manage to get simple human factors correct. It's just poor design on Toyota's part.

[ernieb]

It's always particularly difficult when you transition from another car especially if the layouts are similar but then they radically change a function of a stalk or button. Coming from the Subaru XV which in some areas is identical, I struggle some days particularly if I'm having to react quickly. I'll get used to this car and it will be time to change and it starts all over again. I think I'd prefer what we have in the RAV4 than some of the digital central multifunction touch screens I think I'd find that very distracting.