Swapping wheels front to rear

[Saxmaniac]

I noticed on PC the Americans swap wheels round regularly, I believe it's part of the service schedule. Is it frowned upon here? I'm thinking of doing it to even out tyre wear

[Roy124]

Quote

It is important to note that this is only recommended for vehicles where all tyres are the same size and are not directional. If you choose to fit two new tyres at any time, put the new ones on the rear axle. 

This is advice from Goodyear.  

Why always put new tyres on the rear?  My guess would be:

New front and part worn rear and you eventually reach the point of 4 poor tyres. New rear and part worn front and you always have more rubber.  

It also means less trauma on you wallet not having to get 4 new tyres.

 

[Gerg]

 

45 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

put the new ones on the rear axle. 

I was under the impression the a rear tyre losing grip (aquaplaning?) would cause a more serious loss of vehicle stability than the same happening on a front tyre, so the tyres with the best tread should go on the back, so yes, definitely a consideration if the wheels get rotated.

 

[TonyHSD]

Tyres with best tread should go to the drive axle , FWD to the front and RWD to the rear. Rotation of the car tyres is good for getting best out of them for the longest period of time and have them all 4 equally wearing down. Always best to replace all 4 tyres at the same time, matching tyres on all 4 corners is also important for the car stability and safety, imagine you are walking with two different shoes or one new and one old 🤭🙅🏻‍♂️., why would you like to drive with two new and two old tyres, or any combination of different tyres makes or types. The tyres are most important part of the car together with the brake system, the rubber does age with the time and even having a good tread left on them tyres tend to loose most of their properties. Aquaplaning happens mostly when the car is under acceleration while driving through deep water and this is the reason why you can see many car accidents happen on uphill and not downhill. , and while overtaking fast ., since you need more torque to overcome the hill or accelerate the car.  Tyres with rim protectors, run flat tyres and uhp tyres tend to deliver harsher drive and more noise into the cabin. 👍 

[Stivino]

The advice from all the tyre companies is that the best tyres always go on the rear axle, regardless of whether the car is front or rear wheel drive. 

https://www.goodyear.com/en-US/learn/choosing-your-tires/replacing-only-two-tires#:~:text=Installing Tires on the Rear,be moved to the front.

[Roy124]

I agree with Tony, change all 4 though two better tyres on the back, under heavy braking, might maintain direction better.  If I overcook a corner with FWD I know where I would want the grip. 

[Saxmaniac]

I found Goodyear advice on rotation, there's a particular sequence to follow 

https://www.goodyear.eu/en_gb/consumer/learn/rotating-your-tires.html

I want to avoid having virtually unworn tyres on the rear that need chucking just because of being old age. Goodyear recommended rotation every 6000 miles or so

[Roy124]

Depends on your annual mileage. The consensus is a life of 5-6 years. Factors such as standing unused, under inflated and exposed hot sun will reduce their life too. 

Suggested typical life is 20,000 for front and 40,000 for rear. On that basis, less than 7,000 miles per year your rear tyres would be lifex before wearing out if you don't rotate. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Tyre industry advice for over 20 years, when changing just two tyres, has been to put the tyres with most tread on the rear .

When I had a 1996 Corolla and wanted two new tyres, Costco insisted on following Michelin's guidelines, and if a customer wanted two new tyres, Costco insisted the new ones went on the rear. In fact they were content to lose business if the customer disagreed.

[Stivino]

I’ve had the same experience at Costco.  They insist that if they are fitting 2 new tyre on your car, they will only put them on the rear.  If you don’t want that, they won’t fit them.

[Tomv]

Definitely, better tread on the rear. There is usually less weight on the back, which makes it prone to aquaplaning.

[rajivrattna]

Here are my 2 cents on this topic (supported by Swedish traffic agency). We always rotate our tyres when we change from summer to winter and back again from winter to summer wheels/tyres here in Sweden. We mark the position of the wheel so that we know exactly where it sat the last time. The pattern of rotation (front to back or criss cross) depends on if the tyres are directional or not. Directional=front to back rotation and non directional= criss cross or back to front rotation. Regular rotation means uniform wear and changing of all four wheels at the same time. Cost wise no difference. Equally worn out wheel means changing all four wheels at eight years vs  un even wear (non rotation) means changing two wheels every 4 years for example. Safety wise, better to change all 4 at the same time. If you are forced to change only two wheels/tyres, then the best/newest/best tread always on the back axle. This is best for stability of the car, no matter what sort of car you have, front wheel drive, back wheel drive, or four wheel drive. This information is hammered in to every Swedes head by the traffic agency every year via news paper article, tv and radio. Winter roads can be treacherous if you have got the wrong wheels here!

[DaddyBaddy]

I always swap my fronts to the rear every 12 months. Then all 4 wear out at the same time. That means better buying power when you buy a set of 4 new tyres, rather than mixing 2 old tyres with 2 new tyres.
Then have all 4 wheels laser aligned for good true running. (Pot holes and speed humps / punctures permitting!)

I tend to buy online through TyreShopper.  

[Anthony Poli]

On 9/11/2021 at 9:03 AM, Roy124 said:

This is advice from Goodyear.  

Why always put new tyres on the rear?  My guess would be:

New front and part worn rear and you eventually reach the point of 4 poor tyres. New rear and part worn front and you always have more rubber.  

It also means less trauma on you wallet not having to get 4 new tyres.

 

The idea behind the new tyres on the rear, is you pay more attention to the front tyres and often overlook the rear tyres.

 

[Stivino]

5 minutes ago, Anthony Poli said:

The idea behind the new tyres on the rear, is you pay more attention to the front tyres and often overlook the rear tyres.

 

No it isn't.  You need to do some research. 

[Anthony Poli]

1 minute ago, Stivino said:

No it isn't.  You need to do some research. 

May be you could kindly share your sources, unfortunately I can't remember which organisation that was giving out this information.

 

 

[Stivino]

My dear man, if I do the work for you, how will you ever learn?

There’s plenty info on it, it was even discussed here, in this very thread, just last week.

So, it’s obvious that you haven’t even read this thread.

[mrpj]

I'll bite - just one of many advising new tyres on rear.https://www.etyres.co.uk/blog/should-i-fit-new-tyres-to-the-front-or-the-rear/ (front or rear wheel drive makes a difference)

Many tyre manufacturers give similar advice.

My car is usually reversed in off the road. When I leave the front door the first wheel I see is rear left, walking round to driver's side it's the rear right I see first.

I'll be more polite! That information from Anthony is unusual and it surely depends from which direction the vehicle is approached? My pre driving examination takes in all four wheels/tyres and weekly pressures check ditto.

[DaddyBaddy]

In the UK with our very mixed bag of weather (including heavy rain ☔️  and occasional snow ⛄️ which seem to bring the UK to its knees) in front wheel drive cars, I would ALWAYS have the newest tyres with deepest treads on the front wheels. They’re the ones that hit standing water / puddles first. They have the hardest job of shifting that water out of the way to stop you from aquaplaning 💦. If you have worn tyres on the front and new on the back, which pair will lose grip first? I’d stake my next months salary on the fronts letting go first. And it’d be on a bend in the wet or when braking hard on a wet road.

Common sense and physics people. Think about it. 🤔 

I work with people who have rear wheel drive cars including BMW’s and they fear any kind of snow. RWD and snow is a lethal combo.

All season tyres make a massive difference as temperatures dip. I’ve run a set of Hankook Kinergy 4S four season tyres for 40,000 miles and they are the best tyres I have ever experienced on a car. Hot. Cold. Wet. Dry. Snow. Slippery leaves 🍁 Awesome tyres. 

[Saxmaniac]

As per last post, I've only ever had front wheels break away under traction on fwd cars, and this is easily controllable, most braking steering and cornering force goes on front. However there's advice to put new tyres on rear despite this. I've never had a rear break away on an fwd car so that's a mystery to me. At the same time, Goodyear advice is regular tyre rotation so they all wear down evenly. That's how I'll proceed, so as not to be left with hardly worn rears that are too many years old

[Stivino]

I must congratulate the two previous posters, your knowledge is far superior to that of all the tyre companies, suppliers, and fitters the word over who have been telling us for years to put the best tyres on the rear. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdSf0KJie_E

http://kumhotyre.co.uk/kumho-news/should-you-fit-new-tyres-to-the-front-or-rear/

 

[TonyHSD]

47 minutes ago, Stivino said:

I must congratulate the two previous posters, your knowledge is far superior to that of all the tyre companies, suppliers, and fitters the word over who have been telling us for years to put the best tyres on the rear. 

No, their knowledge as it’s mine it’s not greater or we are not smarter than engineers of the big companies, retailers or manufacturers.,  but every driver that has plenty of driving experience in all weather conditions knows where the better tyres should be. The idea of better tyres on the rear comes down only because of insurance purposes and I will called “idiot proof”,. because only in extreme rare and unpredictable situations you may benefit from better grip from rear axle otherwise in any other cases in normal use the benefit of having better tyres fitted to the front or drive axle will provide better traction in acceleration, braking, turning and in general drivability of the vehicle. Why always people should think in worst case scenario is the new normal and it’s different from the old school theory that last two posters and me support. Having newer tyres on your front or drive axle is active safety, you know you are in control of your car, you know how to drive in different situations and where you need most grip , you also control your speed and adjust accordingly to what happens ahead vs having the newer tyres on the rear especially on fwd car and you drive like nut knowing that you have the better tyres on the rear and this will help you in extreme situations., passive safety like airbags.,no thanks,  I prefer to have active safety and control over the car so no extreme situations. Because once you on slippery roads with your worn out tyres you can not move or stop even at slow speeds, but hey you have better tyres on the rear and you are safe according some bodies. That’s why we see so many funny videos from UK when snowing and it’s only an inch of snow on the ground, no proper tyres for the season and better tyres on the rear where over 50% of the cars are fwd. 👍 If not illegal by the Highway Code every driver should have a choice where to mount two new tyres., and btw driving with different tyres is as wrong as anything can be but it is a massive practice here. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

At the end of the day, tyre industry advice and best practice for over 20 years has been, if only two new tyres are bought, to put the new tyres on the rear axle. This is regardless of whether the car is front or rear wheel drive.

Nothing to do with insurance.

If owners choose to ignore industry advice, that is their decision and their risk.

Now please return to the topic subject, which is rotation of (existing) tyres.

[NGRhodes]

Simple answer is that the average driver is better (it is easier) at regaining control from understeer than oversteer in the average FWD car, so better rear traction is promoted.
In countries where RWD is dominant the advice is different, rotated tyres with more balanced grip are far more important for the ability to control a car on/past limit of traction than traction at one end or the other, so rotation and full set replacement is promoted over just replacing a pair.

If you are a trained/experienced/advanced driver, you will know how to use the throttle to help balance and regain their vehicles, which requires better traction from the driven wheels (FWD/RWD), but the vast majority of drivers are not, hence the generic advice as above.