Swapping wheels front to rear

[Saxmaniac]

2 hours ago, Stivino said:

I must congratulate the two previous posters, your knowledge is far superior to that of all the tyre companies, suppliers, and fitters the word over who have been telling us for years to put the best tyres on the rear. 

If you take the trouble to read my post you may observe that I am aware of the industry advice and state that it's a mystery to me. Ie I don't understand it. I am perfectly aware that they know more than me and I'm not giving advice of my own to anyone else, simply on a quest to understand more myself 

[TonyHSD]

Let’s face it with respect to all comments and advice.
It’s an industry advice right and no particular law like Highway Code? Industry has interest of producing and selling tyres, more output from factories more profits right?

Now an example:

We have a 2 year old car with 4 same oem tyres, rear one at 5mm thread depth and front with 3mm which obviously are ready for replacement. You visit a garage as average driver with just enough knowledge of cars to know that your tyres needs replacement. The tyre man look at them and confirms to you that you need only 2 tyres since the rear one have plenty of life left and you obviously are well aware of. The man accordingly to the industry advice for safety recommends to you to swap rear to the front and put 2 new tyres to the rear and explains to you the “safety reason” etc. Now you have a car with 2 front tyres at 5mm and 2 rear tyres at 8mm. After a year time you will notice that your font tyres are low on thread again, likely down to 3mm where rear ones are 6-7mm.  Another year and another 2 set of tyres goes to the rear, and if you are about mixing different make and models of the tyres you are certainly not doing the things right. 

Here we have option two: You rotate your tyres front with rear every 6-10k miles and get equally worn out tyres. Doing so will extend the life of the tyres as much as double in comparison if you don’t do that. After year 3 or 4 you will have equally worn out tyres at 3mm all 4 corners and plenty of time to do your research which tyres will be most suitable for your driving needs., oem tyres are not always the best for all people. You can buy now 4 new tyres fit them and do a wheel alignment and you are good to go for the next couple of years. No argument where to fit newer tyres front or rear, no argument if it’s better to have all 4 same tyres or mix and match, no trouble. 
It’s down to the owner which way to choose. My only advice is to take it easy and do not expect the newer tyres on the rear to save you while driving on motorways at high speed during a rain storm., slow down and stay safe.👍  Regular tyre pressure checks, check for puncture and regular rotation front to rear easy motoring 🚗🔋⛽️
This is what I do and here it is my example of tyres when new and after 35k miles. 

[Roy124]

Tony, spot on "oem tyres are not always the best for all people. " 

People in the far North may put more stock in all weather tyres.  People on the south coast will be more concerned with summer tyres because of the warmer winters. Others too might eschew all bad weather driving. 

Serious drivers with many miles per year might opt for two sets.  My previous car came with winter threads.  I used these through the first winter then swapped them out for a set of summer ones.  Next winter I put the winter ones on to comply with Continental rules.  At the end of that season my garage offered to store them again as they still had enough tread but they were probably 4-5 years so I junked them and switched to all weather. 

The point though is the tyre swap cost about £50.

[Anthony Poli]

Personally I am more concerned that my previous car bought used from a Toyota dealer had the 2 factory fitted tyres put on the near side and the last owners cheaper tyres on the off side. After fitting a full set of tyres, the tyre wear was fairly even for a hybrid and still had plenty of tread after 20,000 miles.

My current car which is a hybrid again, doesn't have the same responsive traction control. So the front tyres are noticeably worn after 20,000 miles, still 4mm v 6mm on the rear. 

Since I am planing to trade the car in less than a few months time, I will be leaving well alone.

[Roy124]

I made a late decision to sell one car, a rust prone Merc with 199,000 miles.  I think the petrol was worth more than the car.  It also had an unused spare wheel, 15 years old but with a screw in it. 

OTOH I also PXd a SAAB, the car exchange was at Aviemore on the A9.  My parting remark was that it was almost out of fuel. 

I then had to chase after the salesman as he had left his insulin in the dash box and some brake pipes in the boot. 

[rajivrattna]

Here is a link from Swedish car expert to you all non believers on why the best tyre should be on rear axle. He starts the test with best tyre on rear axle and car goes forward on a slippery curve without drama. On the next instance he goes through the same slippry curve with the best tyre in front axle and worn tyres on rear axle. See for yourself. 

 

[Saxmaniac]

1 hour ago, rajivrattna said:

Here is a link from Swedish car expert to you all non believers on why the best tyre should be on rear axle. He starts the test with best tyre on rear axle and car goes forward on a slippery curve without drama. On the next instance he goes through the same slippry curve with the best tyre in front axle and worn tyres on rear axle. See for yourself. 

 

Ah yes that's very interesting thanks!

[Roy124]

That is certainly convincing in those conditions which many of us will meet, flooded roads or black ice. 

There is one condition where you need good tyres on the front driven wheels (or rear) and that is when climbing a hill or moving off in mud or on ice. I always try and park with my driven wheels of firm ground. 

This is not advocating best tyres on the back but the case for good tyres on the driven wheels. 

PS, I have seen a similar German tyre film of Winter versus Summer tyres driven on ice. Even in UK, if you have to drive in winter work out your cost /benefit for having winter boots. 

[Saxacat]

The current RAV 4 manual recommends rotating every 3000mls; for vehicles without a spare, rear tyres move forward on the same side, front tyres move back swopping sides.

[TonyHSD]

Swapping tyres front to rear on regular basis and get them replaced with all new same make and model according to your driving style and needs is the best and safest way to maintain your car tyres and safety, works equally well for both believers or non👍. 

[Keith Hasemore]

I have been told that I cannot switch wheels around on my Auris, because of the tyre pressure sensor. Is that not the case? Nobody has referred to it here. Thanks, Keith.

[Heidfirst]

1 hour ago, Keith Hasemore said:

I have been told that I cannot switch wheels around on my Auris, because of the tyre pressure sensor. Is that not the case? Nobody has referred to it here. Thanks, Keith.

Hi Keith, welcome to TOC.

You should be able to but depending upon what system is fitted you may have to reset/relearn the TPMS.

[Cyker]

I do wonder about that - My one seems to automatically figure out which wheel which sensor is on when the car's started, but I don't know if that is a new feature or if all active TPMS systems can do it.

Most garages should be able to tell the system to re-learn with a TPMS or ODB2 tool, assuming the car doesn't have a button to do that (Most do)

[Red_Corolla]

My car is fine with wheel swapping, but it depends on the system and Toyota have used multiple different ones. The type that can show the individual tyre pressures (and which wheel each one belongs to ) on a display doesn't tolerate swapping, for obvious reasons.

[Heidfirst]

21 minutes ago, Red_Corolla said:

The type that can show the individual tyre pressures (and which wheel each one belongs to ) on a display doesn't tolerate swapping, for obvious reasons.

I would have thought that those were the ones that would tolerate it best ... (but there may be many levels of sophistication)

However, surely all you would have to do if they don't is get the system reset & relearnt?

[Red_Corolla]

21 hours ago, Heidfirst said:

I would have thought that those were the ones that would tolerate it best ... (but there may be many levels of sophistication)

However, surely all you would have to do if they don't is get the system reset & relearnt?

No, I think the unique code of each sensor is assigned to a particular corner on the vehicle, to ensure that the graphic showing the individual pressures and their whereabouts stays correct. They can still be moved around, but it necessitates the use of a scan tool to reassign them. That's my belief; someone working in the trade would know better.

[Keith Hasemore]

Thanks to you all for the information. I now know how to proceed. Much appreciated.