Well I never expected that.......................

[Lawnmowerman]

Popped into local dealer to book 3 year service, MOT & replace rear pads & discs.

Hung about the showroom until a salesman became available. Had a bit of banter about the price-drop on the PHEV and how it blind-sided everyone. Asked when a Design would be available and he said he had a Dynamic in stock that I could have right away. Told him the attraction of the Design was the offer of 0% APR - rather have the money invested elsewhere until I need to pay the balance.

Surprisingly, he said not a problem, we can do 0% on the Dynamic as well (not listed on Toyota's website as a deal). He asked if my current RAV came from them - no, you were a mile out so dealt with A.Clark 140 miles away. Any finance on the car? No - normally just pay unless I can get 0%. Off he toddled and had a look at mine and then came back with figures.

We Buy Any Car listed at £23,500 - but you never get that. The least stone chip (and there is one about the size of a pin head) and they slash the figure stating it needs a panel respray and adjoining panels to match. We know it doesn't, it goes straight through the Auction - BCA.

Motorway gave a top price of £24,391. Trouble with Motorway (for me) is that it is dealers who bid for the car and (I'm sure) when they discover the car's location is north of Inverness that valuation will (as we say up here) disappear like snow of a stonedyke.

So, given that the realistic figure from these two companies could be closer to £22,500 - given a following wind. Imagine my surprise when they offered £24,000 p/ex. I think for the first time in my life I was dumbfounded!! But quickly recovered! Ah, says I, but it is still dearer than the Design and I really do not need the extra cost features. Hang on he said, and promptly came back knocking £1,000 off the Dynamic price - near as dammit the same as a Design now. But if you really do want the Design he said, the earliest delivery would be March and we would need to revalue your car then. Now the repricing could be a lottery - I think prices for used have topped out and of course it would then be six months older. Now, given that I only paid £28,500, it has only cost me £4,500 in depreciation for 3 years motoring (for me personally, that is 15.78%) a truly remarkable set of figures and a set of circumstances unlikely ever to be seen again.

Now, If I do take the offer I am now saving on a 3rd year service, MOT, rear pads & discs (at a whopping £341) - and soon enough a set of tyres. 

What have I to lose (apart from the massive price drop and depreciation on a new vehicle in 3 years time - LOL) seems destiny is pushing me. But as I have said before - this will be my last car (🤞😂) so that doesn't matter (only to my son-in-law when I peg it 🤣).

Any contrary opinions?

 

[PAISLEY1903]

The only question I have is have you been affected by the "shiney effect"...  see the new car... the new price... do you NEED it ... we're you happy with car before went into dealer.

The offer sounds great !  My only issue with electric is I think its a few years away from being nailed on re distance etc which is why I went for the hybrid but if that doesn't bother you or the plugin. Go for it. 

My shiney effect was driven by a near 120000 mile kuga ready to fall apart ... 

If you scuff the alloys, get a stone chip... Will you feel different... 

But... if you think its going to be your last car then do whatever makes YOU happy inside, lifes too short and you won't take your car to the grave with you so drive what you feel is right for you and think in 7 years from now... could you still be driving your current rav4 ?

[Heidfirst]

3 hours ago, Lawnmowerman said:

Popped into local dealer to book 3 year service, MOT & replace rear pads & discs.

Hung about the showroom until a salesman became available. Had a bit of banter about the price-drop on the PHEV and how it blind-sided everyone. Asked when a Design would be available and he said he had a Dynamic in stock that I could have right away. Told him the attraction of the Design was the offer of 0% APR - rather have the money invested elsewhere until I need to pay the balance.

Surprisingly, he said not a problem, we can do 0% on the Dynamic as well (not listed on Toyota's website as a deal). He asked if my current RAV came from them - no, you were a mile out so dealt with A.Clark 140 miles away. Any finance on the car? No - normally just pay unless I can get 0%. Off he toddled and had a look at mine and then came back with figures.

We Buy Any Car listed at £23,500 - but you never get that. The least stone chip (and there is one about the size of a pin head) and they slash the figure stating it needs a panel respray and adjoining panels to match. We know it doesn't, it goes straight through the Auction - BCA.

Motorway gave a top price of £24,391. Trouble with Motorway (for me) is that it is dealers who bid for the car and (I'm sure) when they discover the car's location is north of Inverness that valuation will (as we say up here) disappear like snow of a stonedyke.

So, given that the realistic figure from these two companies could be closer to £22,500 - given a following wind. Imagine my surprise when they offered £24,000 p/ex. I think for the first time in my life I was dumbfounded!! But quickly recovered! Ah, says I, but it is still dearer than the Design and I really do not need the extra cost features. Hang on he said, and promptly came back knocking £1,000 off the Dynamic price - near as dammit the same as a Design now. But if you really do want the Design he said, the earliest delivery would be March and we would need to revalue your car then. Now the repricing could be a lottery - I think prices for used have topped out and of course it would then be six months older. Now, given that I only paid £28,500, it has only cost me £4,500 in depreciation for 3 years motoring (for me personally, that is 15.78%) a truly remarkable set of figures and a set of circumstances unlikely ever to be seen again.

Now, If I do take the offer I am now saving on a 3rd year service, MOT, rear pads & discs (at a whopping £341) - and soon enough a set of tyres. 

What have I to lose (apart from the massive price drop and depreciation on a new vehicle in 3 years time - LOL) seems destiny is pushing me. But as I have said before - this will be my last car (🤞😂) so that doesn't matter (only to my son-in-law when I peg it 🤣).

Any contrary opinions?

 

Watch out! Sounds very similar to how i got my current Avensis.

Previous Avensis was in for a service & whilst waiting went to look in the showroom & got talking to a salesman. They had half a dozen pre-reg Avensis with delivery mileage going at a very healthy discount of ~30%+ although none of them was in quite my ideal spec.  

Went away & ran the nos. - I knew that my car would need new rear discs & pads & probably some new tyres in a year plus would have lost an additional year's depreciation. Dealer wouldn't shift on the sticker price for the car as they knew that they would sell quickly but after initially pitching a low price for trade-in they came up to WBAC's quote (which I knew would still have them retailing mine for a healthy profit) & we haggled over some dealer-fit options. As a bonus Toyota would refund me for the unused year of a 2 year extended warranty & the dealer would transfer a remaining year of service plan to the new car. Basically I was getting into a new car  (well, 3 months old with 27 miles on the clock 😉 )a year early without it costing me any more. 

& of course sometimes a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush - could I guarantee getting a good deal on a run out Avensis in the spec. that I wanted in a year's time?

With current crazy s/h prices if I were to sell the current car after 4 years of motoring I would have lost only £3,000 in depreciation ... 😮 It actually has had me thinking about a Corolla TS or RAV ... 😱

[ernieb]

6 hours ago, Lawnmowerman said:

Popped into local dealer to book 3 year service, MOT & replace rear pads & discs.

Hung about the showroom until a salesman became available. Had a bit of banter about the price-drop on the PHEV and how it blind-sided everyone. Asked when a Design would be available and he said he had a Dynamic in stock that I could have right away. Told him the attraction of the Design was the offer of 0% APR - rather have the money invested elsewhere until I need to pay the balance.

Surprisingly, he said not a problem, we can do 0% on the Dynamic as well (not listed on Toyota's website as a deal). He asked if my current RAV came from them - no, you were a mile out so dealt with A.Clark 140 miles away. Any finance on the car? No - normally just pay unless I can get 0%. Off he toddled and had a look at mine and then came back with figures.

We Buy Any Car listed at £23,500 - but you never get that. The least stone chip (and there is one about the size of a pin head) and they slash the figure stating it needs a panel respray and adjoining panels to match. We know it doesn't, it goes straight through the Auction - BCA.

Motorway gave a top price of £24,391. Trouble with Motorway (for me) is that it is dealers who bid for the car and (I'm sure) when they discover the car's location is north of Inverness that valuation will (as we say up here) disappear like snow of a stonedyke.

So, given that the realistic figure from these two companies could be closer to £22,500 - given a following wind. Imagine my surprise when they offered £24,000 p/ex. I think for the first time in my life I was dumbfounded!! But quickly recovered! Ah, says I, but it is still dearer than the Design and I really do not need the extra cost features. Hang on he said, and promptly came back knocking £1,000 off the Dynamic price - near as dammit the same as a Design now. But if you really do want the Design he said, the earliest delivery would be March and we would need to revalue your car then. Now the repricing could be a lottery - I think prices for used have topped out and of course it would then be six months older. Now, given that I only paid £28,500, it has only cost me £4,500 in depreciation for 3 years motoring (for me personally, that is 15.78%) a truly remarkable set of figures and a set of circumstances unlikely ever to be seen again.

Now, If I do take the offer I am now saving on a 3rd year service, MOT, rear pads & discs (at a whopping £341) - and soon enough a set of tyres. 

What have I to lose (apart from the massive price drop and depreciation on a new vehicle in 3 years time - LOL) seems destiny is pushing me. But as I have said before - this will be my last car (🤞😂) so that doesn't matter (only to my son-in-law when I peg it 🤣).

Any contrary opinions?

 

I think that sounds like you've negotiated a great deal.

[Catlover]

Well, your right about WBAC and probably Motorway and their pricing.  0% interest, a good part ex, the costs your about to expend, knocking another £1k off, the extra loss if you waited till March for what you want etc.            

If you happy with the deal then go for it. Is there a time limit you got to sign papers. Just thinking it’s nearly end of month and the dealer would like the sale in this month, not October???

[Dippy]

Dealer is under pressure to clear that stock. The car prices boom is slowing down, I read elsewhere also. A PHEV will still be able to drive around city centres etc where a diesel won’t in future. 
I’d bite his arm off. 

[philip42h]

9 hours ago, Lawnmowerman said:

can do 0% on the Dynamic as well (not listed on Toyota's website as a deal)

As I understand, Toyota finance deals are specific to the model rather than the grade. So you can get 0% over 2 years on any RAV, or 05 over 3 years on any CH-R etc. Toyota just tend to use the Design grade in the examples - probably because it makes the monthly payments lower ...

If you build / configure a different grade and then look at the initial finance illustration it will probably show an interest bearing, longer term deal, Simply shorten the term to that of the offer, include a sufficient deposit, and the 0% finance reappears ...

If you want it, can afford it, and don't have anything 'better' to spend the money on, why not enjoy yourself.

I really don't understand why prices are as they are today. Specifically, why is a second-hand HEV more attractive to a Toyota dealer than a shiny new PHEV - presumably they are incentivised via the sales numbers. And quite how long Toyota dealers will continue to sell a new PHEV below list is anybody's guess. I imagine that there are changes in the pipeline - maybe next year's launch of the bz4x - who knows ... ?

[ernieb]

When I bought mine I was told that there would be an '22 PHEV with some changes.  I think the BZ will be still some time off before it hits the UK in any numbers and will likely follow the US/Canada as the primary release market.

[Flatcoat]

Good decision! I had looked at the prices from Carwow and other brokers and set myself a negotiating target of £2000 reduction from new list price, and got it. Sold my car privately within 2 hours of advertising for £4000 more than recent trade- in offers and £500 more than this weeks notional WBAC price. Dynamic spec is available from UK stock anywhere within 2-3 weeks, Premium all sold out (I missed one last week) and on 3-4 months delivery from Japan. Non PHEV RAV’s are on 6-7 months and come from Toyota’s Russian factory, another reason not to buy a HEV and avoid money going to Putin. The dealer I bought from has a year old Excel Dynamic fully loaded with kit up for a non- negotiable £36500. That is more than you can buy new after discounts. The finance rate on used is over 3%, the rate on new is 0% or 1.9%….. it is cheaper to buy new….. 

By the way Lawnmowerman, where do you live? My sister lives near Foyers just south of Inverness and we have friends in Gairloch over on the West Cosst. Will be up there next June with our caravan. 

[ernieb]

@Flatcoat, someone good negotiating and brilliant selling your car. 

[philip42h]

36 minutes ago, Flatcoat said:

Non PHEV RAV’s are on 6-7 months and come from Toyota’s Russian factory, another reason not to buy a HEV and avoid money going to Putin

Wrong! All UK RAV4s are built in and imported from Japan ...

[Yugguy1970]

Yes, my RAV VIN and the certificate of conformity show it is a Japanese built car.

 

Also I am on 0% PCP for the entire 42 months term.

[Flatcoat]

The likes of Autocar must be misinformed, if that is the case apologies but i will not knowingly buy anything made in Russia. 

[Yugguy1970]

It doesn't surprise me that car reviewers don't know the full facts of the cars they review.

On the selling/buying thing, I would imagine HEVs are still easier to buy/sell than PHEVs because you don't have to charge them.

[Flatcoat]

To be fair to Autocar they are knowledgeable than any Autodistress reporter. HEV’s are cheaper, the charging will be an issue for many and in much of our use would suffice. However the PHEV brings additional benefits for our usage hence that was an essential requirement for us. 
 

The 42 month 0% PCP must be an earlier offer. No one offered that or even considered it. Best deal is getting a discount off list. The discounts available (if you search) on the HEV’s are in the region of 10-12% or better. 

[ernieb]

Driving local we hardly ever have the ICE cut in it’s all EV mode. I will occasionally switch the car into Charge mode just to run the engine.  I have noticed that braking heavily using the brakes rather than regeneration the car will fire the ICE this is especially noticeable if you are descending a very steep hill and don’t quite get the baking right to maximise regeneration. OFF Topic sorry.

[philip42h]

28 minutes ago, Yugguy1970 said:

Also I am on 0% PCP for the entire 42 months term.

That 'kills' my theory!  Maybe they do do better deals on the Design ... 🙂 

[Rav4ster]

Toyota Russia only makes cars for Russia and some ex soviet republics and only petrol versions. Absolutely agree that car magazines should know this.

On the other note, I have 2 year old Design 2WD that sadly goes back to the leasing company in a few days. It has 19k on the clock and in pristine condition. I like the car, so wanted to buy it, leasing company said of course, for £27000. When I asked if it was a joke, they said this is the sort of  money the car will be sold at the action. WBAC quoted 26500. I told them no thank you, as I could get a brand new car for £28000 from an online broker. Used cars are sold at silly money, because of the long lead times for new cars.

 

[John57]

No brainer, you've got a great price for yours and if you're happy with the 'entry price' i.e. cost of the new one - why not? As others have said PHEV will offer local electric only motoring which is another benefit.

[Lawnmowerman]

Thanks for all your input.

The shiny effect - love that. No, I knew I wanted to discuss the PHEV when I went in. Previously looked at the new Yaris Cross but discounted that because of the sharp crease on the cill which catches the back of your calf especially on leaving the car.

In a less prosperous part of my life I needed a VERY economical car. I calculated that my then commute (70 miles/day) could yield 60mpg given the right car and would enable a new vehicle purchase. Research suggested the best bang for buck was a Vauxhall Corsa Turbo Diesel. I went to the dealer, negotiated hard and ordered one without driving it - no driving experience (good or bad) could trump my need for cost v. economy at that stage of my life. Ran it for 60,000 miles (and did achieve the target 60mpg) then got another one and repeated the exercise. Warranty replaced the wheel bearings that seemed to be made of chocolate but their Achilles heel was jamming turbo waste-gates despite my keen attention to oil changes with high quality oil.

I do like a bit of eye candy though - not so different from anyone else - but am pragmatic too. It must work for me - not a frivolity. I pay a premium for my Apple iMac, MacBook Pro and iPad. I was sick of the Windoze software of my then current computers and was really impressed with the quality and reliability of Apple products - have used them for over 10 years now - superb.

 

👍

 

[Lawnmowerman]

£1,421.00 - eek!!!

[Flatcoat]

I am with you on Apple products too. Discovered iMacs over 20 years ago and had first gen iBook and used iPhones since invented. Unfortunately work insist on Windows cr8p….. 

And have bought many a car without a test drive, including quite a few from auctions and unseen over the phone. Only once caught a cold with one. 

[Lawnmowerman]

2 hours ago, Flatcoat said:

Good decision! I had looked at the prices from Carwow and other brokers and set myself a negotiating target of £2000 reduction from new list price, and got it. Sold my car privately within 2 hours of advertising for £4000 more than recent trade- in offers and £500 more than this weeks notional WBAC price. Dynamic spec is available from UK stock anywhere within 2-3 weeks, Premium all sold out (I missed one last week) and on 3-4 months delivery from Japan. Non PHEV RAV’s are on 6-7 months and come from Toyota’s Russian factory, another reason not to buy a HEV and avoid money going to Putin. The dealer I bought from has a year old Excel Dynamic fully loaded with kit up for a non- negotiable £36500. That is more than you can buy new after discounts. The finance rate on used is over 3%, the rate on new is 0% or 1.9%….. it is cheaper to buy new….. 

By the way Lawnmowerman, where do you live? My sister lives near Foyers just south of Inverness and we have friends in Gairloch over on the West Cosst. Will be up there next June with our caravan. 

Hi Adrian, your negotiating skills make me look like an amateur 😂. In saying that, I did not expect such a resounding result and fully expected to (virtually) schlep around all the other avenues. 

Foyers on the banks of Loch Ness - know it well. Probably had your sister in our store at some point - H.I.S. I'm in Muir Of Ord - bit of a climb up the A9 and then drops down and then up again - do well to get 45mpg on my commute. Don't regret for a minute moving up from the central belt 26 years ago.

[Flatcoat]

I think you will be right, they live in Gorthleck having moved from Edinburgh about 25 years ago, and we have been in the shop too so may have unknowingly met. 

[Broadway One]

2 hours ago, philip42h said:

I really don't understand why prices are as they are today. Specifically, why is a second-hand HEV more attractive to a Toyota dealer than a shiny new PHEV - presumably they are incentivised via the sales numbers. And quite how long Toyota dealers will continue to sell a new PHEV below list is anybody's guess. I imagine that there are changes in the pipeline - maybe next year's launch of the bz4x - who knows ... ?

Hi all......can only comment on Toyota but would find it hard to believe without hard facts on this forum.

The current swings & swings new car deals in favour of buyers are unheard of.

The dealer in my case is begging for my 3 year old Hybrid showing 12k miles with FSH.

Apparently Toyota HEV's are a very popular off new buy.

Corvid means lots of us have low mileage vehicles; why swap ?

In my case a family member will be acquiring a nice HEV at a very attractive price.

Otherwise I wouldn't be changing at this time.

Returning to my initial point, the new car deal has proved very attractive.  

Many holding on, passing through the family or selling direct is starving dealers of used stock.

Seems Toyota is having to be creative in their marketing to attract new car deals.

As I say "swings & swings" for many buyers.

Barry Wright Lancashire.