Auris Hybrid 2010 Brakes, ABS and ASC fault, Codes C1239 and C1467

[TonyHSD]

Hi all, 

last night my beloved Auris has decided to bring first ever problem. While I was travelling on the motorway at around 60mph all warning lights ⚠️ came on and the car lost its regenerative braking, took off the motorway towards the nearby services and at then traffic lights the warning ⚠️ disappeared and the all went back to normal. I did check for fault codes and these came up C1239 TOYOTA Code - Foreign Object Attached On Tip Of Left Rear Sensor and C1467 TOYOTA Code - Rear Speed Sensor Left. Using a Carista obd2 plug and their own app I managed to delete the faults and few hours later I started to drive the car again, I did around 20 miles and all was fine then when I arrived at my destination on stopping the abs has activated without any wheel skid just the pump went crazy and the lights came up again, same codes. I tried to delete them again but only C1239 went  away and C1467 remained with message that says the fault code was successfully deleted but come up again. So wired to drive a hybrid without regenerative braking, and Battery keeps draining fast. 
In the morning after work I took the wheel off to inspect the plug , the harness and sensor and everything seemed ok at first sight except there was grease everywhere on the pins and connector, hm something didn’t look right to me,. I cleaned with contact spray but no luck , my multimeter has no suitable leads to get some measurements and the lovely weather started to rain 🌧👌. Back inside and researching now what is the most common issue that can trigger these fault codes?! Anyone with same or similar problems and eventually how have you fixed? Do you think is the speed sensor? The wire harness or the brake booster? Any ideas and comments welcome.  
Thanks in advance 👍

[Catlover]

Sorry to hear of your problems Tony, and equally sorry I cannot help. Hope you sort it quickly, I know how much you need your car and know you look after it real well.

[TonyHSD]

7 minutes ago, Catlover said:

Sorry to hear of your problems Tony, and equally sorry I cannot help. Hope you sort it quickly, I know how much you need your car and know you look after it real well.

Thanks Joe. 👍

[flash22]

The sensor and ring are part of the hub it's cheaper and easier to replace the hub but make sure you get the correct one as some have a large plug and others use the small type (sensor is in the cap and the magnetic ring is part of the bearing

It looks like dielectric grease to me just to keep the moisture and crud at bay that connector

 

You will have to confirm the part by reg or vin as 2010 has a part change over

02/2007 - 05/2010    42450-02121

06/2010 onwards       42450-02251

 

£95-150 for an SKF hub depending on what one it is

[TonyHSD]

23 minutes ago, flash22 said:

The sensor and ring are part of the hub it's cheaper and easier to replace the hub but make sure you get the correct one as some have a large plug and others use the small type (sensor is in the cap and the magnetic ring is part of the bearing

It looks like dielectric grease to me just to keep the moisture and crud at bay that connector

 

You will have to confirm the part by reg or vin as 2010 has a part change over

02/2007 - 05/2010    42450-02121

06/2010 onwards       42450-02251

 

£95-150 for an SKF hub depending on what one it is

Thanks. 👍I ordered one and a new harness just in case I need it. Last year I did change those and do not remember there was any grease anywhere on them and on the original ones too, perhaps the bearing seal inside has failed and sent grease inside the speed sensor and at the pins, I couldn’t take better pictures but next time I am working on will investigate better. A guy from USA  said that in his case one of the pins was broken and got stuck inside the connector, he needed to replace the wire harness too., it might be the case with me as well., because first the faults came and gone after two minutes, then after came back again and C1467 can not be erased anymore. Appreciate your comments 👌

[Red_Corolla]

Yeah if the grease is only inside the plug then it's probably just a dielectric.

Your photos show evidence of that nasty blue-green colour that appears whenever copper contacts have been corroding. My money would be on an electrical connection issue.

[flash22]

I don't know the mil criteria for those codes, it could be x amount per 1000 rpm's some codes are hard set others are soft set

i would suspect water ingress given grim weather conditions

[TonyHSD]

16 minutes ago, flash22 said:

I don't know the mil criteria for those codes, it could be x amount per 1000 rpm's some codes are hard set others are soft set

i would suspect water ingress given grim weather conditions

I actually went through deep water paddle the other night when was the stormy weather and heavy rain, but all that to happen so quickly not sure, other than that it’s been mostly dry for last couple of weeks. But it could be mixture of moisture and the grease inside the speed sensor which should be dry and clean. I done many connectors on cars and non has any grease originally applied. Here i found a guy that has opened a similar sensor. 

[Red_Corolla]

Whether it was meant to be there originally or not, I would use a dielectric when making the repair, to try and prevent corrosion from happening again. Use dielectric grease or, even better, ACF-50 like they use on aircraft & military vehicles.

[TonyHSD]

24 minutes ago, Red_Corolla said:

Whether it was meant to be there originally or not, I would use a dielectric when making the repair, to try and prevent corrosion from happening again. Use dielectric grease or, even better, ACF-50 like they use on aircraft & military vehicles.

Thanks.
May put some grease around. I believe the pins were corroded and gave away and that’s the reason why all went that way, but waiting for new parts to arrive and will work on and see what exactly happened. If can’t claim warranty on that hub which is likely to be as it’s 1.5 years old I may open it to see the sensor inside . Thanks again for your suggestions 🔬👨‍🔬👨🏻‍💻👍😉
Here I found something interesting, just skip to 4:50 and the amount of water coming from inside the connector is unbelievable. 

 

[Red_Corolla]

I see. Clearly, the connector doesn't protect against the elements very well. Better designs tend to have a rubber seal around the male part to prevent that sort of ingress. Have you checked the one on the other side? I would want to apply some preventative TLC but, if it's gone the same way, pulling the plug may do more harm than good!

[TonyHSD]

Update: 

The car is ready, the hub was faulty and more specifically the pins for the speed sensor and the grease that should not be there. (Blueprint) one faulty hub after only 45k miles, the oem lasted 140, probably could have done even more. Shame really as the bearings itself are fine with no noise or anything, but they have some grease going out on both sides of the hub, perhaps their seals has failed too. Hm, let see the new skf how long will last., hopefully longer🤞
Thanks everyone for all advice and suggestions. 👍 

[TonyHSD]

Well, 14 months later at 232k miles the fault has returned.
This time as to be expected is the right wheel bearing speed sensor failed, fault code C1466. My 4th time probably to see all lights on dashboard like a Christmas tree 🎄 but this time wasn’t so surprised. I think if that  happens to someone for a first time to see the warning lights and feel the brakes are not the same can freak out easily. New SKF wheel bearing kit on order and if arrives tomorrow will be working on.
Blueprint rear wheel bearing hub lifespan: left one lasted only 45000 miles, the right one did double and died at 96000 miles, I mean the sensors failed them not the bearing themselves. 

[AisinW]

Unfortunately it is very difficult to replace just the sensor.  I am wondering how much Toyota dealership sell the wheel bearing.  Toyota usually use KOYO Seiko bearing and last long.  SKF, Timken, NTN, INA are also great Bearings. Make sure they are not fake Chinese bearings. 

[TonyHSD]

Job done ✅, nice and easy 👌

The beauty of changing parts often is that they come out easily.
First time was a nightmare because of the rust, I was beating that thing with hammer, felt like blacksmith at some point 😂 , now only few knocks. 
The new SKF replacement hub is made by Aisin Japan, and also says Made in Japan on the box. The previous SKF was made in Sweden. Will see how long they will last. The blue print failure was the wire pins plus there is some sort of grinding noise like the balls inside the bearing has some extra space in between when rotating., no free play or any extra whining noise. All good now. 👍 

 

[AisinW]

It is indeed annoying that the electronics prone to fail more than the actual bearings.  Bearing noise is very easy to spot since it gets louder as we go faster and no change as we shift to N or coasting.  Differential and transmission  noise is the other way around. Tires noise is much harder to guess, but often it is caused by feathering . 

[AisinW]

On 12/21/2022 at 4:39 PM, TonyHSD said:

Job done ✅, nice and easy 👌

The beauty of changing parts often is that they come out easily.
First time was a nightmare because of the rust, I was beating that thing with hammer, felt like blacksmith at some point 😂 , now only few knocks. 
The new SKF replacement hub is made by Aisin Japan, and also says Made in Japan on the box. The previous SKF was made in Sweden. Will see how long they will last. The blue print failure was the wire pins plus there is some sort of grinding noise like the balls inside the bearing has some extra space in between when rotating., no free play or any extra whining noise. All good now. 👍 

 

I just came back from MOT/TÜV today and they said there is a code error about the electronic brake.  However, the car never have problems in braking even in very twisty Alps drive every summer.  The problem is, they do not tell me what code it is and there is no check engine light, no light on ABS, VSC, etc.? All clear.  I also check with the CARISTA OBD2 and it found nothing too.   I am not sure what to do. I suspect the guy in MOT just want me to bring the car to dealership but it could be genuine problems.  Does anyone have idea if they ever have such issues? No lights or warning and no  problems with driving either. So, I download CARISTA program itself and it shows ABS failure code C1241.  Kind of weird because it is Voltage code. 

[TonyHSD]

1 hour ago, AisinW said:

I just came back from MOT/TÜV today and they said there is a code error about the electronic brake.  However, the car never have problems in braking even in very twisty Alps drive every summer.  The problem is, they do not tell me what code it is and there is no check engine light, no light on ABS, VSC, etc.? All clear.  I also check with the CARISTA OBD2 and it found nothing too.   I am not sure what to do. I suspect the guy in MOT just want me to bring the car to dealership but it could be genuine problems.  Does anyone have idea if they ever have such issues? No lights or warning and no  problems with driving either. So, I download CARISTA program itself and it shows ABS failure code C1241.  Kind of weird because it is Voltage code. 

Hi, 

if you Google it it comes as 12v Battery issue. If the brake system works fine and no trouble codes then it’s very likely to be 12v Battery low voltage indeed. Other than that if the brake booster fails or anything else like speed sensor or abs module there will be a lot more warnings and you will feel the brakes weak and only working on front wheels, plus no regenerative braking. 

[AisinW]

2 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Hi, 

if you Google it it comes as 12v battery issue. If the brake system works fine and no trouble codes then it’s very likely to be 12v battery low voltage indeed. Other than that if the brake booster fails or anything else like speed sensor or abs module there will be a lot more warnings and you will feel the brakes weak and only working on front wheels, plus no regenerative braking. 

Thanks a lot Tony.  I agree with you that CARISTA program itself is very powerfull and almost at the level of Pro OBD2 scanner. It detect pending code which is C1241.   The nice thing about Toyota is it detect pending code for a while and clear by itself after few start cycles. So, I bought Carista 30 days trials and clear that code C1241. From the Priuschat forum https://attachments.priuschat.com/attachment-files/2018/07/149271_cic12414.pdf    .   It is indeed can be caused by weak 12V Battery or spike on the charging with external charger.  I did parked the car for almost 1 week during my vacation a week ago.  I unplug and spray one of the connector near brake fluid reservoir and plug it back.  Behold, the car show pending code for unplug reservoir sensor. 

I am not sure why the MOT guy failed things from a pending code.   He even raise a flag when seeing my 205/55R16 winter wheel although it is genuine Toyota alloy rims.  I have to show him the KBA copy.  I believe as long as the RIMS and tire specs fine, it should be fine.  It drives me nuts how they do things here.  I am afraid the MOT guy use ACC mode, using just the 12V Battery for a long time and turn the headlights on for testing and drain the Battery until to the point the battery is too low and cause C1241. 

If it is fine after 30 days, I probably will buy Carista perpetual license for €99.  I think it is not too expensive anymore compared to €49 per year. 

[TonyHSD]

14 minutes ago, AisinW said:

Thanks a lot Tony.  I agree with you that CARISTA program itself is very powerfull and almost at the level of Pro OBD2 scanner. It detect pending code which is C1241.   The nice thing about Toyota is it detect pending code for a while and clear by itself after few start cycles. So, I bought Carista 30 days trials and clear that code C1241. From the Priuschat forum https://attachments.priuschat.com/attachment-files/2018/07/149271_cic12414.pdf    .   It is indeed can be caused by weak 12V battery or spike on the charging with external charger.  I did parked the car for almost 1 week during my vacation a week ago.  I unplug and spray one of the connector near brake fluid reservoir and plug it back.  Behold, the car show pending code for unplug reservoir sensor. 

I am not sure why the MOT guy failed things from a pending code.   He even raise a flag when seeing my 205/55R16 winter wheel although it is genuine Toyota alloy rims.  I have to show him the KBA copy.  I believe as long as the RIMS and tire specs fine, it should be fine.  It drives me nuts how they do things here.  I am afraid the MOT guy use ACC mode, using just the 12V battery for a long time and turn the headlights on for testing and drain the battery until to the point the battery is too low and cause C1241. 

Very likely. In the UK mot testers keep the hybrids in ready mode for around 30min while checking things around. I don’t know why is all that fuss about wheels and tyres when those are obviously a standard sizes, in Germany things are even worse. Bad 12v Battery connection can be another reason for your fault code., best to check terminals just to be on the safe side and eventually recharge the Battery again. 
Good luck 

 

[AisinW]

I am just suspecting things on that TÜV since he also failed the guy before me although it could be just coincident.  Actually, the TÜV place I visited is relatevely new. It is opened for just couple months and it is always a bad idea to go to such new place.  The technician is probably new and he has mindset that must bike exactly on the book. 

[AisinW]

I just came by to give it checked again and it is all clear. €18 extra for 2nd check is not too bad.   I remember now what caused it.  I removed the quick-connect 12V Battery trickle charger without removing the negative terminal completely. Basically as I slowly undo the eyelet from the nuts, the Battery is still kept connected loosely and trigger voltage dropped on the 12V lines.  I did it because I did not want to setup the clock again by doing that.  It was a bad lazyness.   Fortunately, it is only the ABS module complaints about that and I do not worry too much and went to Stealership to get it checked.  3 days since it was clear and stay clear and I gave a shot to pass the MOT/TÜV.  Thanks Tony for the help. 

[AurisVSClights]

Had this same issue, VSC, brake lights lit up, felt very scary to drive, felt like I couldn't brake but just not being used to non regen brakes. This is on a a 2012 mk1 auris hybrid with only 65k miles

Turned to be rear ABS sensor, no local Toyota or hybrid specialists near me so had to tow it to a small dealer 30 miles away. They did an excellent job, but total cost was £530 with OEM replacement wheel bearing hub. Offered to replace some bulbs/wipers at low cost, buffed some scratches and complete detail of the car too so no complaints. Wondered if I should have gone for the SKF wheel bearing and asked a local mechanic to do it after reading this thread as I dont do high mileage and probably wont keep the car past the toyota hybrid warranty

[TonyHSD]

The one you had fitted by dealer is likely to be same or similar quality to SKF. Yes it will be much cheaper if replaced by yourself or local garage but it’s already done so no need to think about it. SKF seems to be well made and not all of their bearings are their own produce, it seems like they use bearings made by other manufacturers, for example my R hub came Aisin in SKF box and I had it from Eurocarparts, all genuine.