Understanding Charging Costs.

[Broadway One]

Hi all.......sure someone out there will come along to help me understand how charging costs work.

Just one private  on site 2 socket Type 2 Mode 3, 3.6kW or 7.2Kw pedestal unit:

Rolec have partnered with Vendelectric (V/e) for charging & back office payment.

Your patience is appreciated, but this is where it gets confusing.

Set up V/e online account paired with mobile AP.

Plugged in, opened AP, requested to select how long.

Chose 2 hrs. £4 deducted upfront from V/e account. 

Charging commenced, timer started counting down.

End of period unplugged, RAV showing almost full charge.

Question time;

If RAV had reached full charge at say 1.5 hrs. & cut off what units (Kwh's) have been used ?

How do I get at what I'm being charged per. unit ?

Does this mean that it's time based & selected pre. charging ?

Could be missing something & looking forward to feedback.

Everything else at the RAV end of the cable continues to impress on all fronts.

Barry Wright Lancashire.

     

       

[ernieb]

Barry,  how much charge was in the traction Battery when you started the charge. You have to factor in that of the 18.1 kWh in the Battery 30% is reserved for the car to operate in the HEV mode and to still give you the specified performance.  So in driving you can access about 12.5 kWh of the Battery.  I found  it confusing when I got the car, the MyT app said there was 60% battery but then but the car internal battery was showing nothing like that, I had to read the whole scale including the reserve. I makes sense when you think about it but I had in my head the 18.1 figure being available to me.

I’ve never bothered so far with a fast charge but I’d think that even this is shaped by the car taking into account, ambient, battery temperature, state of charge etc. Nick who has a charger might be better able to help you.

[Broadway One]

1 hour ago, ernieb said:

Barry,  how much charge was in the traction battery when you started the charge. You have to factor in that of the 18.1 kWh in the battery 30% is reserved for the car to operate in the HEV mode and to still give you the specified performance.  So in driving you can access about 12.5 kWh of the battery.  I found  it confusing when I got the car, the MyT app said there was 60% battery but then but the car internal battery was showing nothing like that, I had to read the whole scale including the reserve. I makes sense when you think about it but I had in my head the 18.1 figure being available to me.

I’ve never bothered so far with a fast charge but I’d think that even this is shaped by the car taking into account, ambient, battery temperature, state of charge etc. Nick who has a charger might be better able to help you.

 

1 hour ago, ernieb said:

how much charge was in the traction battery when you started the charge. You have to factor in that of the 18.1 kWh in the battery 30% is reserved for the car to operate in the HEV mode and to still give you the specified performance.

Hi Ernie.......just went of the dashboard blue indicator, more scrutiny next time.

Seems like the breakdown of units (Kwh's) drawn is at the car end. 

Maybe naive but expected the charge point to deliver ✗ Kwh's at ✗ pence per. unit & take payment for the total amount at disconnection. As it stands cost per unit will vary depending on time selected pre. charge.

Paying for a time window up front doesn't rest well with me.

Barry. 

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

[ernieb]

Barry, I agree that paying for the energy is better than paying for time although I guess if your hogging the charger with not much happening I can sort of understand the logic. I thought that many chargers actually told you how much energy has been put into the Battery but as I said I currently have only charged at home.  At home I have a digital power meter plugged into the mains socket and if I’m down to the 30% left, zero miles EV then it will take the 12.5 kWh over the approx 7.5 hours, sometimes a lot less. It is a shaped charge and does not take the 10A for the whole time, I also have the Battery heating/cooling setting to ON.

[Trewithy]

Many people are motoring on a budget and have only a limited amount of money to spend on fuel.  So when all cars are electric I was wondering if you will be able to stop at a charger and just put £10 worth in?  It doesn't sound as if you can do that at present.

[nlee]

Charging at home is fairly simple. Assuming "empty" is 30% leaving 12.5kW to charge to full, it's 12.5 X p/kWh from your electricity bill. At 25p/Kwh = £3.13, at 5p/kwh = 63p. Fast or slow charge makes no difference to cost, you use the same KW just over a longer or shorter period. The only time it makes a difference is if a slow charge takes you outside a cheapper off-peak rate.

Charging at public charger is a minefield. Some are free (normally for customers) e.g. Tesco & many hotels. Those that charge do so by different methods. Some are time based, some per unit, some per time or unit but also have a connection charge (you have to be careful with these, if you interupt charging, e.g. unlocking the car, you pay the connection charge again to resume). When you pay per unit, generally, the faster the charger, the more expensive per KwH. Where you have a choice, don't use anything faster than 7kW otherwise you'll be charged the premium rate for the pleasure but the RAV4 can only charge at just below 7kW so you're paying for nothing.

The ZapMap app is good for seeing most public chargers, what connections are there, how you are charged and how much and many will show you if the point is in use or free. There's also a lot of stuff on the app and website about all the different charging types, etc.

[Broadway One]

1 hour ago, ernieb said:

I agree that paying for the energy is better than paying for time although I guess if your hogging the charger with not much happening I can sort of understand the logic.

 

1 hour ago, ernieb said:

At home I have a digital power meter plugged into the mains socket and if I’m down to the 30% left, zero miles EV then it will take the 12.5 kWh over the approx 7.5 hours

Hi again......Hogging EV charge points was an early problem but the smart IT has caught up now.

BEV's remaining plugged in I'm told are hit in the wallet with an increased tariff which ramps up when charging stops (expensive parking)

Your numbers Ernie make interesting reading the 12.5 Kwh quoted would probably need approx. 3 or even 4 hrs. for me requiring an £8 up front cost & equates to 64p per unit.

Slightly off topic but here goes:

Fully charged RAV phev, 45/50mls range would cost £8.

My previous Hybrid based on suburban miles similar 45/50 mpg

Best pump price locally £1.35p per litre equates to £6.08p.

Bearing mind energy prices currently skyrocketing north.

Is this likely to stall the  BEV drift ? 

All interesting stuff......Barry.            

[philip42h]

Charging a RAV4 PHEV at 'home' using a 13A socket and 'granny' cable would cost around £2.75 - that's 12.5kWh (as per Ernie's estimation) at about  22p/kWh being this week's cost at the price cap. So, under £3 and you might do better if you already have fixed tariff and/or can charge off-peak.

And that will give you pretty much the same range as a gallon of petrol. Average petrol price last week was 137.9p/litre. So that's around £6.20. I.e. it costs around twice as much to run the PHEV on petrol as it does to do the first 50 miles on electricity from home.

That same £6.20 would equate to around 50p/kWh if you were paying for it from a public charge point. If you were to use an Ionity 350 kW CCS unit you'd wind-up paying 69p/kWh - so you really wouldn't want to be doing that!

I suspect that it is something of an illusion that it will be cheaper to run an EV than it is to run an ICE - it certainly can be today if you use the right charge point, but over time the potential saving is likely to be eroded. And, 'no', that won't stop the march of the EV 'cos sooner or later we won't have fuel for the ICE anyway! 😉

[Broadway One]

On 10/9/2021 at 12:20 PM, Broadway One said:

sure someone out there will come along to help me understand how charging costs work.

Hi.......full marks to the forum & you guys.

I've learned much in a short time about vehicle charging practicalities & costing, big thanks.

Barry Wright Lancashire.