B mode in drive.

[Catlover]

8 minutes ago, Stopeter44 said:

This video references the Prius, but the Car Care Nut seems to give a good explanation of mode B, and why it is not all it might seem :-

Mode B explained by the car care nut

All I need to know is put the car into B when going downhill, put it into D when downhill finished. Much prefer to keep it simple. Driving a Toyota hybrid is a most relaxing experience, I want to keep it that way.

[Stopeter44]

@Catlover Of course, and you have it right. On the other hand there are people like me who like to know why things that are simple, to use, are often complicated, to engineer.

[loz8]

In olden times,much was made of changeing down [manualy] for a descent till drivers realised brakes are cheaper to replace than gear boxes. Nothings changed.

Edited November 1, 2021 by loz8
more clarity

[Steven83]

19 hours ago, loz8 said:

In olden times,much was made of changeing down [manualy] for a descent till drivers realised brakes are cheaper to replace than gear boxes. Nothings changed.

It’s not so much the brakes wearing sooner but the fact they can massively overheat and be next to useless once you see midway down a hill. 
 

although with the engine braking of the hybrid it is probably much less likely 

[preperationlaunch]

From my experiences with a Yaris going down big hills regularly, MK3.

When you go into B-mode, the ICE will start to be spun by MG1 wherever possible to burn off power, MG2 is capturing the power, and using the engine to pump energy away as best it can. The Battery will fill up more slowly, as you're essentially telling the car to waste energy rather than try and capture all of it. I assume this is because both MG1 and Battery can only accept so much power, so you've got to burn off some and capture some to get the most braking.

The car will do the same if you don't use B-mode once the Battery is full, I often use cruise control to hold speed down inclines, and you'll hear the car start to rev the engine at about 75% charge, at 80%, MG1 will start being spun at around 4000rpm to desperately burn off the excess power. You can get to the bottom of the hill and find that the car wants to burn off just a little bit more and it'll surge to ~3000rpm just whilst coasting at 30. It'll quieten down as soon as it's dipped slightly below that threshold again.

[loz8]

Back to ,Olden days brakes were often rubbish. Overheating? 62 yrs of driving,never happened.

Have driven to South Spain a dozen times,plus return. Twice in current car. Live near Peak District,do a Buxton trip weekly.

[Steven83]

On 11/4/2021 at 8:23 AM, loz8 said:

Back to ,Olden days brakes were often rubbish. Overheating? 62 yrs of driving,never happened.

Have driven to South Spain a dozen times,plus return. Twice in current car. Live near Peak District,do a Buxton trip weekly.

In that case, drive down the hill to Castleton in neutral maintaining speed with only your brakes and see how quickly you come to a stop at the bottom 😆

 

I only say that because I stupidly did that once in a clio and literally had next to no brakes when I got to the bottom, I learned then why engine braking and choosing a lower gear was so important.

 

needles to say I have never made that mistake again. 

[Catlover]

Travelling back from Buxton to Macclesfield we were on a very long steep hill, driving in “B” but having to use brakes as well.  In front was an artic. I sensed a burning smell, then smoke coming from the wheel area of the artic. The driver managed to pull up on a wider stretch of road and as I went past I could see flames coming from at least one wheel.

[loz8]

Sorry guys,not intending to yank any chains,only pointing out the odds,perhaps 62 yrs of luck,never had a blow out at speed either,but drive as if it will is always the best option.

[loz8]

If you try to shift to neutral while on the move,and there is'nt a warning,like a stuck pig.I would Get that checked.

[Anthony Poli]

Weber Auto on YouTube, gave a teardown and detailed explanation of the different revisions of the Toyota hybrid transmission. 

plus the car care nut, did what Toyota should have done and explained how to use the various drive modes,

B mode basically wastes the energy that is regenerative braking generated, so should only be used on long steep decents. Used at at other time will just increase fuel consumption.

Another mode is eco, this shouldn't be used for normal driving conditions.  

[Stopeter44]

11 hours ago, Anthony Poli said:

Weber Auto on YouTube, gave a teardown and detailed explanation of the different revisions of the Toyota hybrid transmission. 

plus the car care nut, did what Toyota should have done and explained how to use the various drive modes,

B mode basically wastes the energy that is regenerative braking generated, so should only be used on long steep decents. Used at at other time will just increase fuel consumption.

I found those videos particularly useful to understand the Toyota hybrid system. Before I watched those videos, I considered the Toyota hybrid system over complicated and thought that the future was pure electric. The Weber videos explain very nicely, how the ICE and MG1/MG2 interact, I now consider the Toyota hybrid an EV, but with an ICE for charging. Most cars these days have complicated electronic systems for engine management, and there are many direct injection plus turbo cars on the roads.

The future may be electric, the political will is certainly there. Practically in the sticks where I live and in densely populated cities the charging infrastructure isn't there, especially for people with no off street parking, and even in apartment buildings there's a long way to go! I think Toyota's approach was visionary, although I think I and many others missed that, and above all pragmatic. If 75% of the cars on the road today were hybrids like Toyotas, then emissions would be considerably lower, don't you think ?

[Catlover]

12 hours ago, Anthony Poli said:

Another mode is eco, this shouldn't be used for normal driving conditions.  

Why not, Anthony.  I mostly use Eco mode, especially in winter when junction starts can be slippy.

[TonyHSD]

Evs are the future, not sure Battery powered though but we will see. Wireless charging is also what’s coming next in that can actually solve the charging problem particularly for dense populated cities, imagine most public car parks has a built in wireless chargers in many if not all parking lots and you park your car doing shopping, air port run , hospital visits, your car gets topped up each time, this will minimise the needs of having a large and heavy Battery in most cars. 

[mcntosh]

3 hours ago, Catlover said:

Why not, Anthony.  I mostly use Eco mode, especially in winter when junction starts can be slippy.

Good point. I've found it surprisingly easy to spin the wheels in winter. Presumably owing to the electric motor providing instant torque with even the lightest foot on the pedal.

I tend to stick to Eco mode also. A lot of people seem to find it anaemic but it's never bothered me. It does suit a relaxed driving style, in keeping with the character of the car.

[Anthony Poli]

3 hours ago, Catlover said:

Why not, Anthony.  I mostly use Eco mode, especially in winter when junction starts can be slippy.

If you watch that car care nut video, the toyota guy explains that normal gives you the best economy for most of the time. After trying normal myself, I can say I had been under the false impression that Eco was the best for most of my driving. He explained it as Eco was more for city driving.

[Anthony Poli]

1 hour ago, TonyHSD said:

Evs are the future, not sure battery powered though but we will see. Wireless charging is also what’s coming next in that can actually solve the charging problem particularly for dense populated cities, imagine most public car parks has a built in wireless chargers in many if not all parking lots and you park your car doing shopping, air port run , hospital visits, your car gets topped up each time, this will minimise the needs of having a large and heavy battery in most cars. 

A lot can happen in the 9 years before the ban on new ICE cars, batteries can be one part of the solution and other alternatives can fit in the areas where they would be a better fit than batteries.

[Anthony Poli]

16 minutes ago, mcntosh said:

Good point. I've found it surprisingly easy to spin the wheels in winter. Presumably owing to the electric motor providing instant torque with even the lightest foot on the pedal.

I tend to stick to Eco mode also. A lot of people seem to find it anaemic but it's never bothered me. It does suit a relaxed driving style, in keeping with the character of the car.

For the limited driving in snow I experience, I let the car creep when setting off and see how the conditions are. The different modes, don't do anything major, just have different bias on the accelerator response as well as things like the AC.

I would say give Normal a try, but not just for a single drive, maybe a month and see how the mpg changes. I saw an increase, but then E10 came along and my gains have gone.

 

[Stopeter44]

1 hour ago, Anthony Poli said:

I would say give Normal a try, but not just for a single drive, maybe a month and see how the mpg changes. I saw an increase, but then E10 came along and my gains have gone.

 

Are you sure that's all the fault of E10, and nothing to do with cooler weather ?

[Anthony Poli]

Just now, Stopeter44 said:

Are you sure that's all the fault of E10, and nothing to do with cooler weather ?

So far the temperature for me hasn't really  changed that much on my long runs on the motorway, still on average 12c and tyre pressures are consistent.

The engine is sounding rougher than it used to

[Stopeter44]

I've been using E10(95) for ages and have no meaningful comparison with E5(95), where I am E5 is significantly more expensive and not everywhere has it.

[Anthony Poli]

2 minutes ago, Stopeter44 said:

I've been using E10(95) for ages and have no meaningful comparison with E5(95), where I am E5 is significantly more expensive and not everywhere has it.

I use fuelly.com and can compare my fill ups to distance over the 3 years of ownership. Sad I know lol

[TonyHSD]

19 minutes ago, Anthony Poli said:

So far the temperature for me hasn't really  changed that much on my long runs on the motorway, still on average 12c and tyre pressures are consistent.

The engine is sounding rougher than it used to

That’s what I am talking about 👍👍👍, my Auris with E10 95 sounds like there is no oil inside or oil has done over 10k miles and it’s like water with no lube properties. , plus when I accelerate on top of that noise the car feels sluggish like has low pressure in it’s all 4 tyres and something is dragging it on., that’s what I felt since the first fill up with E10 back in September, ever since I am using E5 99 from Tesco as had been suggested few times in previous posts by other members and couldn’t be happier, the engine is quieter and super responsive, almost no need to push it hard to accelerate and gain speeds., huge difference from e10, perhaps consumption is lower too. 🏎🏁

[Stopeter44]

5 minutes ago, Anthony Poli said:

I use fuelly.com and can compare my fill ups to distance over the 3 years of ownership. Sad I know lol

I use something similar, but I only just started using it, so as yet no real comparisons. It's the geek in me, I guess 🤔

 

3 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

...my Auris with E10 95 sounds like there is no oil inside or oil has done over 10k miles and it’s like water with no lube properties. ,... ever since I am using E5 99 from Tesco as had been suggested few times in previous posts by other members and couldn’t be happier, the engine is quieter and super responsive, almost no need to push it hard to accelerate and gain speeds., huge difference from e10, perhaps consumption is lower too. 🏎🏁

What's the price difference at Tesco's ? (E10 95 vs E5 99)

[TonyHSD]

6 minutes ago, Stopeter44 said:

I use something similar, but I only just started using it, so as yet no real comparisons. It's the geek in me, I guess 🤔

 

What's the price difference at Tesco's ? (E10 95 vs E5 99)

Tesco E5 99 is £1.50 and E10 95 is £1.44, but E10 95 in BP or Shell are same £1.50 therefore for me using an E5 99 is the best option. Other garages the difference between E5 and E10 can be as much as 15p or even more. Before the change I was filling anywhere but since then I am like driving an electric car and charge (fill up) same place every two days 🤣, at least it’s quick 3 -4 minutes job👍