Vibrating brake pedal

[Steven83]

Hi guys, yet another question 🤦🏻‍♂️😆

when I press the brake, no matter what speed, the pedal will vibrate under my foot. It feels a bit like how a normal car would feel if the ABS was engaging.

it’s done this since I first test drove the car, but I just put it down to it being a hybrid and this is how the engine braking works. The brakes seem to stop me just fine other than this strange feeling.

Of course I thought this was completely normal until speaking with someone yesterday who seemed surprised.

so may I ask is this normal? 
 

thank you

Steve 

[TonyHSD]

Hi, 

brake system on Toyota hybrids is slightly different from most standard cars and uses electric brake booster pump instead of vacuum pump. Also the car slows down mostly with the electric motor called regenerative braking. When you drive the car and press the pedal to slow down the regenerative braking engages first and then the normal brakes , the transition between regenerative braking and disc brakes should be seamless and if your brake components are in good working order there should not be any vibrations, knocks or strange noises except a noise from the electric booster pump, this is a noise only and not a vibrations and can also be heard when you unlock your car and open the the drivers door, if your car is in ready mode and you depress the brake pedal and in some more various situations., If you get vibrations and pulsating brake pedal you most likely have DTV (disc thickness variation) and you will need to service your brake components, cleaning wheel hubs,  brake discs, brake pads, callipers and lubricating the slider pins, brake discs and pads needs to be inspected and measured for thickness, and if worn out then replaced. Brake fluid also good to be changed every 2-4 years, perhaps this will need to be done too if it’s not in the last two years. 

[Steven83]

11 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

Hi, 

brake system on Toyota hybrids is slightly different from most standard cars and uses electric brake booster pump instead of vacuum pump. Also the car slows down mostly with the electric motor called regenerative braking. When you drive the car and press the pedal to slow down the regenerative braking engages first and then the normal brakes , the transition between regenerative braking and disc brakes should be seamless and if your brake components are in good working order there should not be any vibrations, knocks or strange noises except a noise from the electric booster pump, this is a noise only and not a vibrations and can also be heard when you unlock your car and open the the drivers door, if your car is in ready mode and you depress the brake pedal and in some more various situations., If you get vibrations and pulsating brake pedal you most likely have DTV (disc thickness variation) and you will need to service your brake components, cleaning wheel hubs,  brake discs, brake pads, callipers and lubricating the slider pins, brake discs and pads needs to be inspected and measured for thickness, and if worn out then replaced. Brake fluid also good to be changed every 2-4 years, perhaps this will need to be done too if it’s not in the last two years. 

Thanks Tony. 

I basically get a strange feeling in the pedal as soon as I press the brake, it actually seems to smooth off once the disc brakes kick in at slower speed. 
 

I’ll monitor it more today but I’m tempted to take it back to the dealership for them to look at since if it is a disc brake problem I’d like them to take care of it since I’ve only had the car a week and it’s been like this since I bought it. 

[Steven83]

I would say if produces almost a grinding sound too, a similar type of sound you would get if your pads are worn and it’s metal on metal with the disc, but that is almost instantly as I touch the brake. 
 

i should of test driven a few for comparison 

[Catlover]

41 minutes ago, Steven83 said:

I would say if produces almost a grinding sound too, a similar type of sound you would get if your pads are worn and it’s metal on metal with the disc, but that is almost instantly as I touch the brake. 
 

i should of test driven a few for comparison 

Is that on every occasion you press the brake, or on the first drive of the day?

[Steven83]

1 hour ago, Catlover said:

Is that on every occasion you press the brake, or on the first drive of the day?

Seems to happen more with light braking but every time from what I can tell. Heavier braking I don’t notice as much 

[Gerg]

I've not had anything remotely similar happening in the two Aurises that I sometimes drive.

As has been said above; on light to moderate braking the car will use Battery regeneration to slow the car.  As you brake harder the l/h dash gauge will go to maximum deflection (so, anticlockwise) on the 'CHG' segment.  This is maximum regeneration, if you brake harder, the car will start to use the regular brakes as well to slow the car more rapidly.

Once the car slows to around 5 mph, regardless of how gently you are braking, but assuming you still are, then the regen is replaced by the mechanical (conventional) brakes, at which point the general quietness of the car can make the brakes sound a little rough, like they're grinding even, as you come to complete halt.  With familiarity you can hear that 5 mph transition - a soft 'clunk' will come from the brakes, if you are braking gently anyway.

The brake pedal effort, and its 'feel' during all of this, is calculated/interpreted by the braking computer and the pump assembly that lives just behind the brake pedal.  It's a kind of engineering 'con-trick', so you can drive the car as a normal automatic with no adaptation on your part.

As Tony mentions above, perhaps you need the brakes checking/dismantling, maybe the dealer has had them apart and not got discs and hubs cleaned down properly (rust/crud!) before reassembling them, so that the discs don't run flat to the hubs.  I've never heard of this either, but that doesn't mean that your local dealer hasn't done it whist they were trying to service the car.

How many miles has the car done?  I can't remember if you said it's got full service history.  The brakes wear very slowly, but they do seize up and rust as they don't do much work and get 'nice and hot' occasionally.  One of our cars has done 82,000 miles, the brakes are only just half worn, if that, and most days it's driven by people who are interested in economy!

[Steven83]

5 minutes ago, Gerg said:

I've not had anything remotely similar happening in the two Aurises that I sometimes drive.

As has been said above; on light to moderate braking the car will use battery regeneration to slow the car.  As you brake harder the l/h dash gauge will go to maximum deflection (so, anticlockwise) on the 'CHG' segment.  This is maximum regeneration, if you brake harder, the car will start to use the regular brakes as well to slow the car more rapidly.

Once the car slows to around 5 mph, regardless of how gently you are braking, but assuming you still are, then the regen is replaced by the mechanical (conventional) brakes, at which point the general quietness of the car can make the brakes sound a little rough, like they're grinding even, as you come to complete halt.

The brake pedal effort, and its 'feel' during all of this, is calculated/interpreted by the braking computer and the pump assembly that lives just behind the brake pedal.  It's a kind of engineering con-trick, so you can drive the car as a normal automatic with no adaptation on your part.

As Tony mentions above, perhaps you need the brakes checking/dismantling, maybe the dealer has had them apart and not got discs and hubs cleaned down properly (rust/crud!) before reassembling them, so that the discs don't run true.

How many miles has the car done?  I can't remember if you said it's got full service history.  The brakes wear very slowly, but they do seize up and rust as they don't do much work and get 'nice and hot' occasionally.  One of our cars has done 82,000 miles, the brakes are only just half worn, if that, and most days it's driven by people who are interested in economy!

Thanks mike.

the car has done 30,000 miles.

 

on inspection the rear discs have a fair old lip on them and I can’t see much meat on the pads, although the pads are hard to see.

 

I’m seeing my mate later who is a mechanic so he can take a look.

 

the brakes perform perfectly well thought, I just did a full emergency stop from 60 on a quiet road and they made no noise and no veering in either direction. Just seems to be at slow pace, but with the window open I do hear a constant rub from the rear discs so maybe it’s that.

 

the vibration in the pedal isn’t a numbing feeling but I just feel slight feedback from it. 
 

it could just be that I’m a hybrid newbie and the rear discs need swapping on top of that.

thanks everyone for your help with this.

[Gerg]

As it happens, I've just cleaned up our back brakes.  The car, as above, has done 82k.  The outer brake pad was still sliding Ok-ish, but the inner one was not moving as it should at all. But the handbrake and braking generally were still fine. The brakes were still over 6.5mm on both pads.

Are you happy that the MoT history, service history and condition of the car matches the mileage?

The original equipment brake pads are Bosch on our cars - you can sometimes make this out if the road wheel is in the right place, as per this picture, with the Bosch logo in the centre.

[Steven83]

19 hours ago, Gerg said:

As it happens, I've just cleaned up our back brakes.  The car, as above, has done 82k.  The outer brake pad was still sliding Ok-ish, but the inner one was not moving as it should at all. But the handbrake and braking generally were still fine. The brakes were still over 6.5mm on both pads.

Are you happy that the MoT history, service history and condition of the car matches the mileage?

The original equipment brake pads are Bosch on our cars - you can sometimes make this out if the road wheel is in the right place, as per this picture, with the Bosch logo in the centre.

Thanks for the help mike.

mot history is good, not been able to check the service history as not got v5 and can’t log onto the app.

after driving it a bit yesterday maybe vibrate was the wrong word, it’s  slight buzzing sensation from the pedal, like I can feel it gripping on the brakes in a way I never had in a normal car.

 

however the rear discs do have a lip, some rust spots and a bit of putting, with the window down I do hear one scraping from the rears. All pads are good and discs are good on the front.

 

Possibly just a combination of me not knowing what a hybrid should feel like and those rear discs.

 

it brakes perfectly well, just that feedback in the pedal is something I need to get used to.

 

Although it’s in next week for some work so I may ask them to take it for a spin and see what they think. 
 

thanks again for the advice 👍🏻

[DaddyBaddy]

That’s definitely NOT normal. I’ve got a 2016 Auris Excel Hybrid hatchback. 
 

I don’t get brake pedal vibrations. I’d say it’s either warped discs or an ABS issue.

ABS when it’s active gives a funny feeling through the brake pedal when braking on ice, snow or slippery surfaces.