CVT manually into neutral at low speed

[Al D]

Does anyone besides me do this?! As stops me pressing wrong pedal in error and causing chaos. Which finally did today when getting fuel. So car just revved and didn't go anywhere. Usually I roll at 3 mph with my foot over brake and not go near throttle.

[john p williams]

Just now, Al D said:

Does anyone besides me do this?! As stops me pressing wrong pedal in error and causing chaos. Which finally did today when getting fuel. So car just revved and didn't go anywhere. Usually I roll at 3 mph with my foot over brake and not go near throttle.

NO,NO,NO !

[Yugguy1970]

Why?  It's an automatic. Left pedal stop, right pedal go.

 

[flash22]

No don't do it, you can kill a gearbox internally

You drive an auto with your right foot only, never both !!! that way you have full control

[john p williams]

5 minutes ago, Yugguy1970 said:

Why?  It's an automatic. Left pedal stop, right pedal go.

 

HJ used to advocate this approach and swore by it.

I tried to do it and almost broke my nose when braking with my left foot !

 

I`m with Flash 22 on this, but there are 2 main schools of thought.

[Al D]

@flash22 my mate drove mine today and in drive thru queue just had his foot on the brake. Gather not meant to do this either?!

[Yugguy1970]

No I didn't mean use two feet.

Plant your left foot on the foot rest and leave it there.

Your right foot covers brake and accelerator as per a manual.

[john p williams]

1 minute ago, Yugguy1970 said:

No I didn't mean use two feet.

Plant your left foot on the foot rest and leave it there.

Your right foot covers brake and accelerator as per a manual.

Thanks for clarifying Guy.

[Al D]

I pressed throttle instead of brake. Car didn't move as put in neutral.....

[john p williams]

Just now, Al D said:

I pressed throttle instead of brake. Car didn't move as put in neutral.....

That is why HJ advocated left foot for brake and right foot for throttle Alex.

He argued that the number of accidents caused by mistaken use of the right foot (hit throttle instead of brake ) leading to serious injuries and deaths, all would be avoided if his method was used.

Sadly most of the motoring fraternity did not agree with him.

Are you new to driving with automatics ?

[Al D]

@john p williams first automatic owned myself. Drove 2 Freelander auto's my Dad had. Never any issues.

[john p williams]

18 minutes ago, Al D said:

@john p williams first automatic owned myself. Drove 2 Freelander auto's my Dad had. Never any issues.

I have not driven a manual for 35 years and currently have four. 3 Japanese and one German.

They are each a joy to drive ,but command great respect. notwithstanding that they are easier to drive than manuals.

[flash22]

Why right foot only, Better control and less chance of power braking (applying throttle and brake at the same time), power braking can damage a CVT due to the input forces being stopped, traditional autos are a bit more forgiving

think what would happen it you slammed a manual gearbox into gear without a clutch while moving from neutral

 

driving isn't black and white, there is plenty of grey in there too

 

[Roy124]

I think using both feet might be natural if you have never driven a manual car.  We need an American to give an opinion. 

As for parking your left foot on the footrest, anyone else thing it is too narrow for comfort? 

[Yugguy1970]

We've all done the emergency stop when new to autos and using the brake pedal as a clutch aye.  😂

I've driven autos for so long now it's opposite. I have to remember to use the clutch when I come to a stop in a manual.

 

[TonyHSD]

Left foot on brake pedal to hold the car on step incline is even better than auto hold function, works great on hybrids too and brings a good memories back when I was driving exclusively manual cars, I missed so much sometimes 😉👌 In day to day use only right foot though prevents confusion. 👍

[Cyker]

I had the opposite problem of you yugguy! For the first few months in the Mk4 I kept going for a non-existent clutch with my left foot and hitting the foot rest instead  

I tried left-foot braking with it too but it's really awkward and unlike what proponents say, it isn't any faster than braking with the right foot - What they don't seem to realize is your left foot is not on the brake pedal all the time, it's resting to the side, so it takes the same amount of time to move your left foot to the brake than it does your right foot to the accelerator - If anything the left foot has to go further as it has to come form the floor, rather than from the accelerator pedal.

Having tried it I'm now firmly in the one-foot camp!

Like the OP I do struggle with what to do with the Mk4 in very slow traffic - In a manual car you can just drop it into neutral or dip the clutch below 4mph and roll, but I'm leery of doing that in the Mk4 since it doesn't have a real neutral, so have been doing it the traditional autobox way, i.e. with the brake. Annoyingly the car fights me doing this like a traditional auto too; I really hate that, it's just a waste of traction Battery power and brake wear! I really really wish you could disable the 'creep' - There is absolutely no reason for it in a hybrid or EV; If I want the car to move I'll use the accelerator pedal - Idle creep is just a vestigial problem from ICE engines as they can't stop running, so they are forced to always have a minimum 'creep' speed - It's not something cars HAVE to do Toyota!

 

[Yugguy1970]

Conversely I prefer creep in an auto, but I agree that with a HV system it could be made a toggable option.

[Stopeter44]

2 hours ago, Cyker said:

... I'm now firmly in the one-foot camp!

Like the OP I do struggle with what to do with the Mk4 in very slow traffic - In a manual car you can just drop it into neutral or dip the clutch below 4mph and roll, but I'm leery of doing that in the Mk4 since it doesn't have a real neutral, so have been doing it the traditional autobox way, i.e. with the brake. Annoyingly the car fights me doing this like a traditional auto too; I really hate that, it's just a waste of traction battery power and brake wear! I really really wish you could disable the 'creep' - There is absolutely no reason for it in a hybrid or EV; If I want the car to move I'll use the accelerator pedal - Idle creep is just a vestigial problem from ICE engines as they can't stop running, so they are forced to always have a minimum 'creep' speed - It's not something cars HAVE to do Toyota!

 

Is it not possible to toggle the parking brake ? i.e. Off for a bit of creep, on for a little bit of move ?

[Cyker]

1 hour ago, Yugguy1970 said:

Conversely I prefer creep in an auto, but I agree that with a HV system it could be made a toggable option.

Yes, I feel with the electric motors it shouldn't be that hard to add it as an option...!

 

8 minutes ago, Stopeter44 said:

Is it not possible to toggle the parking brake ? i.e. Off for a bit of creep, on for a little bit of move ?

Not sure what you mean...? The parking brake is something I rarely use on the Mk4 as the car still keeps trying to drive the motor against the parking brake when it's engaged (This is really stupid and I don't understand why they did this); To stop it doing that I either have to move the mode lever all the way to P, or leave it in D and use the foot brake hold.

 

 

[preperationlaunch]

In some EVs, creep is a toggle on/off option. I can understand why manufacturers add it, as people don't want to roll backwards. People coming from autos will expect auto-like behavior.

In the MK3 Yaris, sitting in D with the handbrake on pulls approximately 3 amps or so extra from the Battery. In Park with AC off, it pulls 0.98 amps with the radio on and blower running according to the ScanGauge.

[Yugguy1970]

Yes, I like creep as it's what I expect from an auto. 

Even the electronic manuals like DSG build it in artificially.

But going back to the original thread I have known people who do this, knock the box into N to coast.  It's just what they preferred.

I always liked to take the pressure off a traditional slush box by sticking it in P at the lights but I keep the CVT in D usually as I know it's not churning fluid.

 

[Cyker]

Ehhh well that's not really artificial - It naturally wants to engage 1st and roll in idle. It makes sense for an ICE as the engine is always at least idling, and unless it's in neutral even the idle tickover will make the car move.

I just like having more control over the motion of the car, I guess because I'm coming from a manual - With a manual the car won't move unless you allow power to go to the wheels via the clutch, but with autos the drivetrain is always engaged so you have to subtract power from the wheels with the brake to do the same thing. It's a very small subtle difference in how they operate, but it feels wasteful and bugs my OCD   At least it's just grinding brakes and not a DCT clutch...!

 

[Thermal]

With modern eCVT's, is anyone using Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC) in creeping traffic? That would brake, creep and stop all automatically for you. Just a thought... 😏

(If so equipped of course)

[Cyker]

I tried it but it waits too long and leaves too large a gap before deciding to move off, and I sometimes get people that jump into the gap which then triggers the emergency auto braking. I do use it sometimes on single-lane traffic jams as then that can't happen, but only if it's very long and tedious. I've noticed the mpg suffers when I use it in traffic jams tho' as it wastes energy fighting the brakes which drains the traction Battery faster, making the engine start up at which point it won't turn off again until it's gotten the Battery back up to 50%, and the engine is really obnoxiously loud and shaky when it's running while in stationary traffic.

When I'm doing it myself I just stop the car, let a small gap build, then roll again until I'm too close to the car in front, then apply the brakes and stop again. Basically the same way I did it in a manual, except in a manual I could roll for longer at lower speeds without applying the brakes using the clutch and neutral to go sub-engine idle speeds. Often I wouldn't even brake as I got really good at just rolling to a stop in neutral due to the super slow speeds involved.

 

Speaking of auto-braking, I'm really not getting on with it - On the way home this evening as traffic started building up and the outer lanes grinding to a halt on the good old M25 (rant: Smart motorway All lanes running has honestly done sod all for improving traffic flow; If anything it's made it worse! Great job whatever idiot thought it was a good idea to waste our tax money on that pet project), a van cut in front of me from the stopped lanes, sped off for 2 car lengths, then braked again very hard for a second and cut into the right lane again.

As soon as it braked I was *already* braking to a level calculated to bring me gently up behind the van if it had stayed stopped there, my psychic driver powers having already anticipated everything that was going to happen, but the auto brake decided NOEP and stopped me *dead*, 2-3 car lengths behind the van with enough force to trigger the ABS and throw me forwards into the seatbelt (And my bag into the back of my seat, which was impressive since I'd belted it in so it'd thrown it forward with enough force to slip out of the seatbelt!). Thanks smeg the lorry behind me was pulling into the left lane already or that could have ended much worse!

I can understand why, if I wasn't doing anything, it would engage, as otherwise I would have smashed into the back of the van quite spectacularly, but I was *already* slowing the car quite quickly on the brakes and had plenty of room to slow down without having to go full emergency-stop-ow-my-ribs-and-eyeballs. 

The problem is I can't see how they could improve the system, as the car can never have the psychic driver powers you develop from years of driving experience. All the safety systems operate at the same level as an anxious learner driver!