RAV-4, 177hp, 2AD-FHV; smoking problem

[DGK]

Good day to all of you Toyota owners & club members!

I am a newbie here but decided to draw up in brief a short description of the problem I am recently facing, hoping of course somebody will be able to assist with advices and experience.

The car is RAV-4, year 2006, 177h.p. engine (130kW), 2AD-FHV fuel system type. Bought in about a year ago by my father in law, who usualy drives the car. Mostly in short distance, city conditions. 

The problem appeared in about 6-7 months ago when from time-to-time the car started to release white (to grey) smoke from behind. There was not a specific time interval for appearances of the problem. However, it has mostly appeared when you drove the car in about 5-10 minutes with 70-80 km/h and after approaching the center part of the city you have to stop/start on each the traffic lights each 200-300 meters. Then, when accelerating from idle, a white smoke еnfolding the car. Sometimes the smoke is huge enough to make other drives to put their attention to see what is happening. Sometimes the smoke is not so big, and maybe the only person who sees it is me, due to the fact that my eyes are 50% of the time on the mirror trying to see whether a smoke will appear.

Then, when I started my efforts to try find a solution of the owner`s problem, my presumptions were connected mainly with 3 possible reasons for the problem. All of them related with an unburnt diesel, because the smoke is white and in the same time the car is not losing oil (which eliminated for me turbo and cylinder head as possible options).

My initial presumptions were the following: 

1) EGR failure; and/or  2) Fuel injectors;  and/or  3) DPF filter problem, connected with consecutive and non-successful efforts for regeneration. 

What I have done so far: 

EGR was changed with new DENSO one - no effect, the problem continued. Diagnostics shown 1.6 correction of the nozzlwe on 4th cylinder, which made me decide the  4 fuel nozzles to be dismantled and sent to a shop for functional inspection. The conclusion was that nozzles on 1-st and 4-th cylinder are out of parameters due to huge volume back fuel released. In order to make myself sure, I have doubled the nozzles inspection in another diagnostics shop - the concusion was the same. That pushed me to buy 2 brand new nozzles /500.00€ each.....:((((/. Mounted them, but unfortunately the problem continued. The white smoke was contineously appearing when drining in short city distances. Meanwhile the DPF has been visualy checked by disconnecting elements of the exhaust system.  Everything inside (at first external sight) looked clear and almost like a "new vacuum cleaner bag" - free of any soot,  and/or visible traces of burnt particles. My presumptions were redirected to the 5-th nozzle mounted on the exhaust system. I was thinking whether it is not a leaking fuel in the generation, which to make the car to release this unburnt in form of a white smoke. I have made the following experiment: disconected the fiel pipe which is feeding the 5-th nozzle with fuel and drove the car (the fuel pump was plugged with the original bolt and 10-15 copper diphthongs) At first sight my opinion was that the smoke has disapeared. In order to make myself sure, I have done the experiment several time. With and without the feeding pipe connected to the fifth nozzle. Moreover, I have taken a live data with the Delphi diagnostics modul available with me. With feeding pipe connected on the 5th nozzzle - the temperature of the exhaust gases reached 500-560 oC. Without feeding the nozzle with fuel - temperature of the exhaust gases didn`t exceed 300-310 oC. Which made me think that there is constant leakege of fuel from this fifth nozzle...

But before spending additional cash for ordering new 5th nozzle for replacement I started (finaly!!!!) to think whether there is not another problem which can make this nozzle workrs unproperly. I checked the fuel pressure in the common rail (again with the Delphi available with me) and I was very surprised to see that the values shown on the live data diagnostics bounces in very wide intervals: from 28000 to 42000 kPA!!!

I am quite confused now what to do and what to be the next steps... Does anybody from you guys has had an experience with same or similar problem? May I ask for your suggestions and advices?

I can not decide for myself whether the "bounces" in the fules pressure parameter is the reason for OR the result from the leakage of fuel through the 5th nozzle? If it a "reason" - then maybe the Fuel control valve or the pressure relief valve is failure? 

I`ll be very thanful to have your thoughts and advices shared here on my post. At least before continuing to spend cash blindly for this 15 y.o. vehicle, which in fact I would love to bring back to fit condition for the purposes of owner`s satisfaction.

Thanks to all of you in advance for your time and thoughts shared.

[DGK]

Here is a video how the feeding pipe fo the 5th injector has been eliminated for the purposes of testing the exhaust gases temperature with&without it connected.

[Avensis Power]

Hi, I have also a Avensis DCAT 177hp. Partikel filter removed. Tuning software. (no separate box) Car is running great and the Torx is fun. (200 HP/ 450NM) The last time sometimes grey/ blue smoke. You disconnect the fuel line to the fifth injector. Can you do this continuesly ? Regards, Marco

[DGK]

Hi Marco, 

I have done the fifth nozzle pipe removal just with the idea to compare the exhaust gases temperature with and without it connected.

I do not have enough knowledge and technical experience to know whether it can be done continuously. But I definitely doubt it is a proper thing to do. If kind of "surgery" would be the solution, I believe this should be exactly what you have done. Removal the DPF plus software adjustment. 

But I would prefer to heal the problem, rather than eliminate the whole DPF. At least this is what Iam trying to do now.

Hope to find fellows here who have the knowledge and experience to help me.

Dimityr

[FROSTYBALLS]

Moved to the Rav4 club.

[Avensis Power]

On 11/2/2021 at 7:47 PM, DGK said:

Hi Marco, 

I have done the fifth nozzle pipe removal just with the idea to compare the exhaust gases temperature with and without it connected.

I do not have enough knowledge and technical experience to know whether it can be done continuously. But I definitely doubt it is a proper thing to do. If kind of "surgery" would be the solution, I believe this should be exactly what you have done. Removal the DPF plus software adjustment. 

But I would prefer to heal the problem, rather than eliminate the whole DPF. At least this is what Iam trying to do now.

Hope to find fellows here who have the knowledge and experience to help me.

Dimityr

Hi Dimityr,

It is always the best to find the routecause. I have never find a workshop or specialist who will have a proper answer of the smoke issues. The software is re-programmed and the fault codes of the EGR and Fifth injector are off. This weekend I wil disconnect the connectors of the EGR and Fifth injector and see what happens. The idea is that the EGR stays closed, and the Fifth injector is off and can not cause the smoke.

How did you measure the temperature of the exhasut gases?

Regards,

Marco

[DGK]

Good day MArco, 

The measurement of the exhaust gases temperature I have performed with an existing with me Dephli diagnostics module, which is capable to maintain this type of measurements.

To be honest, I'm starting to lose hope that I will be able to solve/heal this smoke problem. 

I have start thinking how to eliminate the DPF, i.e. to "castrate the problem". I will search for experienced people around who can remove physicaly the DPF and to re-program the ECU.

Regards, Dimityr

PS: Have you performed the test described by you for disconnection of the EGR & 5-th nozzle? I`m curious for the result...

[igormus]

On 11/2/2021 at 10:44 AM, DGK said:

Good day to all of you Toyota owners & club members!

I am a newbie here but decided to draw up in brief a short description of the problem I am recently facing, hoping of course somebody will be able to assist with advices and experience.

The car is RAV-4, year 2006, 177h.p. engine (130kW), 2AD-FHV fuel system type. Bought in about a year ago by my father in law, who usualy drives the car. Mostly in short distance, city conditions. 

The problem appeared in about 6-7 months ago when from time-to-time the car started to release white (to grey) smoke from behind. There was not a specific time interval for appearances of the problem. However, it has mostly appeared when you drove the car in about 5-10 minutes with 70-80 km/h and after approaching the center part of the city you have to stop/start on each the traffic lights each 200-300 meters. Then, when accelerating from idle, a white smoke еnfolding the car. Sometimes the smoke is huge enough to make other drives to put their attention to see what is happening. Sometimes the smoke is not so big, and maybe the only person who sees it is me, due to the fact that my eyes are 50% of the time on the mirror trying to see whether a smoke will appear.

Then, when I started my efforts to try find a solution of the owner`s problem, my presumptions were connected mainly with 3 possible reasons for the problem. All of them related with an unburnt diesel, because the smoke is white and in the same time the car is not losing oil (which eliminated for me turbo and cylinder head as possible options).

My initial presumptions were the following: 

1) EGR failure; and/or  2) Fuel injectors;  and/or  3) DPF filter problem, connected with consecutive and non-successful efforts for regeneration. 

What I have done so far: 

EGR was changed with new DENSO one - no effect, the problem continued. Diagnostics shown 1.6 correction of the nozzlwe on 4th cylinder, which made me decide the  4 fuel nozzles to be dismantled and sent to a shop for functional inspection. The conclusion was that nozzles on 1-st and 4-th cylinder are out of parameters due to huge volume back fuel released. In order to make myself sure, I have doubled the nozzles inspection in another diagnostics shop - the concusion was the same. That pushed me to buy 2 brand new nozzles /500.00€ each.....:((((/. Mounted them, but unfortunately the problem continued. The white smoke was contineously appearing when drining in short city distances. Meanwhile the DPF has been visualy checked by disconnecting elements of the exhaust system.  Everything inside (at first external sight) looked clear and almost like a "new vacuum cleaner bag" - free of any soot,  and/or visible traces of burnt particles. My presumptions were redirected to the 5-th nozzle mounted on the exhaust system. I was thinking whether it is not a leaking fuel in the generation, which to make the car to release this unburnt in form of a white smoke. I have made the following experiment: disconected the fiel pipe which is feeding the 5-th nozzle with fuel and drove the car (the fuel pump was plugged with the original bolt and 10-15 copper diphthongs) At first sight my opinion was that the smoke has disapeared. In order to make myself sure, I have done the experiment several time. With and without the feeding pipe connected to the fifth nozzle. Moreover, I have taken a live data with the Delphi diagnostics modul available with me. With feeding pipe connected on the 5th nozzzle - the temperature of the exhaust gases reached 500-560 oC. Without feeding the nozzle with fuel - temperature of the exhaust gases didn`t exceed 300-310 oC. Which made me think that there is constant leakege of fuel from this fifth nozzle...

But before spending additional cash for ordering new 5th nozzle for replacement I started (finaly!!!!) to think whether there is not another problem which can make this nozzle workrs unproperly. I checked the fuel pressure in the common rail (again with the Delphi available with me) and I was very surprised to see that the values shown on the live data diagnostics bounces in very wide intervals: from 28000 to 42000 kPA!!!

I am quite confused now what to do and what to be the next steps... Does anybody from you guys has had an experience with same or similar problem? May I ask for your suggestions and advices?

I can not decide for myself whether the "bounces" in the fules pressure parameter is the reason for OR the result from the leakage of fuel through the 5th nozzle? If it a "reason" - then maybe the Fuel control valve or the pressure relief valve is failure? 

I`ll be very thanful to have your thoughts and advices shared here on my post. At least before continuing to spend cash blindly for this 15 y.o. vehicle, which in fact I would love to bring back to fit condition for the purposes of owner`s satisfaction.

Thanks to all of you in advance for your time and thoughts shared.

quote

- - - - -

My initial presumptions were the following: 

1) EGR failure; and/or  2) Fuel injectors;  and/or  3) DPF filter problem, connected with consecutive and non-successful efforts for regeneration. 

- - - - -

end of quote

 

hi matey

possible issues:

- late injection timing

- injector solenoin issue

- error belong to injection control

- head gasket (inspect an expaning tank with coolant colour and possibl bubbles when sharply accelerated)

- injector tip issue (needle possible blocking or tip holes blocking)

check and revert

cheers \ Igor

 

[Avensis Power]

14 hours ago, DGK said:

Good day MArco, 

The measurement of the exhaust gases temperature I have performed with an existing with me Dephli diagnostics module, which is capable to maintain this type of measurements.

To be honest, I'm starting to lose hope that I will be able to solve/heal this smoke problem. 

I have start thinking how to eliminate the DPF, i.e. to "castrate the problem". I will search for experienced people around who can remove physicaly the DPF and to re-program the ECU.

Regards, Dimityr

PS: Have you performed the test described by you for disconnection of the EGR & 5-th nozzle? I`m curious for the result...

Hi Dimityr,

The ECU is re-programmed. And the DPF removed. The peformance of the Toyota is really inproved. Also the consumption is much lower. Last weekend I removed the connector of the EGR. No faults codes showed. Only..the car was in an emergency loop. All power lost. 

I think that the smoke is caused by regenerating. The fifth injector is used for that process. When we are able to disconnect the Fifth injector, we can test. I will test this week what happens when I disconnect the wiring of the fifth injector.

Regards,

Marco

 

 

 

[DGK]

21 hours ago, igormus said:

Hello Igor,

Many thanks for your involvement on the topic with the problem shared by me. All the possible issues mentioned by you are related with the fuel/control system. I suppose you have an experience which is absent with me....

Would you please help me with more information about the manner of mesurement of the suggested by you potential issues? Both my injectors (1-st and 4-th) are brand new, others passed successfully a repair shop inspection. What should exactly I have to measue/check? What are the proper parameters?

In my initial post I have posted a few words for a "dancing" level of fuel pressure, detected during a EOBD test with the available with me Delphi diagostics module. Could it be related anyhow with the pressumtions mentioned by you? 

Thank yuo in advance for your feedback and pls excuse me for the questions, which most probably were not completely understandable due to my amateur, but not professional level of car maintenance education.

Kind regards!

D.

21 hours ago, igormus said:

 

quote

- - - - -

My initial presumptions were the following: 

1) EGR failure; and/or  2) Fuel injectors;  and/or  3) DPF filter problem, connected with consecutive and non-successful efforts for regeneration. 

- - - - -

end of quote

 

hi matey

possible issues:

- late injection timing

- injector solenoin issue

- error belong to injection control

- head gasket (inspect an expaning tank with coolant colour and possibl bubbles when sharply accelerated)

- injector tip issue (needle possible blocking or tip holes blocking)

check and revert

cheers \ Igor

 

 

[DGK]

1 minute ago, DGK said:

 

PS: Based on what I`ve done so far, my pressumptions are that the issue is not related with injectors. Two are new, two are checked. If the problem comes from the fuel pressure, maybe the fuel control regulator (the one mounted on the pump) could be failure? 

Cylinder head and gasket are OK. No bubbles or changes in the coolant color appearing. 

My main presumption is for DPF filter. I think the car is conttantly trying to initiate regeneration and all efferts are non-successful, which makes it trying again and again. And the fuel injected through the 5th nozzle is exhausted as an unburnt fuel with white color. Don`t know if its true, but its just a pressumption by my side....

[igormus]

2 hours ago, DGK said:

PS: Based on what I`ve done so far, my pressumptions are that the issue is not related with injectors. Two are new, two are checked. If the problem comes from the fuel pressure, maybe the fuel control regulator (the one mounted on the pump) could be failure? 

Cylinder head and gasket are OK. No bubbles or changes in the coolant color appearing. 

My main presumption is for DPF filter. I think the car is conttantly trying to initiate regeneration and all efferts are non-successful, which makes it trying again and again. And the fuel injected through the 5th nozzle is exhausted as an unburnt fuel with white color. Don`t know if its true, but its just a pressumption by my side....

 be sure

white smoke is a signal of late injection -- in other words and in details:

the signal comes to injector solenoid a bit after TBC (Top Bottom Centre) when hot compressed air foes out of cylinder thru an exhaust valve and being unburnt fuel jet is converted into white vapour (like smoke). The diesel theory has not been changed by someone )))).

By the way - please have abreviation of DPF decoded, as I own petrol version of 3rd gen RAV

Cheers \ Igor

[Stivino]

5 minutes ago, igormus said:

(Top Bottom Centre)

Make your mind up. Lol

[DGK]

Good day Igor, 

When I say DPF, I mean Diesel Particular Filter. During the "regeneration" process, the ECU gives a command to the 5-th nozzle (available on the 2AD-FHV fuel system type engines like the one on my RAV-4) for injecting a fuel into the exhaust system to burn the particles that are deposited in the DPF filter. 

Do you have any ideas and/or suggestions, what should I do first as a nnext step in case your theory for the reason ("late injection") of the smoke on my car is correct? Should  I point my attention on the fuel pressure regulator located on the fuel pump, or my understanding is not correct?

I`ll be thankful to have your advice.

Regards!

D.

[Stivino]

This subject has been done to death on the internet.

Because I have that engine in my car too, I also have an interest and have been been following this thread.  I’ve read hundreds of posts on it on this forum and the Lexus forums, and I’ve never seen the definitive cure for it.

 I’m quite sure that someone who thinks “the signal comes to injector solenoid a bit after TBC (Top Bottom Centre)” is not the person who is going to help you to solve your problem.

[velles2003]

DGK, I think you shouldn't listen to Igormus. anyway, as you said, blocking the fifth did the trick, right?  i have the same problem and i have ordered the fitfh inj. but it hasnt arrived yet.   I dont think removing DPF. fifth inj or EGR is such a good idea because of failing MOT or some other inspection.   So a fix should be found.   I think that fuel pressure values are ok, you should compare them with default values.   Anyway you should check this 2 TSB from toyota attached about this problem. 

and there is another thread here, with the same problems.

hope it gets you somewhere.. 

 

301016492_datalistactivetest.pdf tsb.pdf tsb2.pdf

[velles2003]

i forgot to say, that my next actions, regarding this problem, will be to replace the fifth, recode the ECU with techstream and firmware from EG-0096T-1011 Techincal Service Bulletin, clean the EGR.

funny thing. i tried resetting ECU by leaving unplugging the Battery for 15 min. and the smoke kinda dissapeared. i mean it's very rare now (maybe one time a week). and the fuel economy improved also from 12L/100km to 10.5L/100km in town.

[DGK]

Hi Victor, 

Thanks for your posts. I am already fed up with this problem.

I have decided to remove the DPF and proceed with ECU reprogramming. 

I`ll share info once I have results.

 

Regards!

D.

[Stivino]

15 minutes ago, DGK said:

Hi Victor, 

Thanks for your posts. I am already fed up with this problem.

I have decided to remove the DPF and proceed with ECU reprogramming. 

I`ll share info once I have results.

 

Regards!

D.

I take it that you know that doing that will bring a lot of other problems?

[velles2003]

I've changed the fifth injector and the smoke is gone.

fuel economy marginally improved...

i've used a cheap chinese one.  although it has denso markings on it.  the qulity seems to be exactly as the oem one 

this is what i've used  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001120369620.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.19d94c4dCp1Zp2