PHEV reflections after some months and miles of motoring

[Nick72]

Many short trips, few long trips (4 hour plus drives).

Hopefully this is helpful to newbie owners and those considering this car.

First thing to say is this is a company car for me. 3 years. Then replaced with whatever else I want or I can buy it at auction price. I pay about 7pc tax rather than 40pc tax on my wage so the somewhat overpriced car at 52k (when I ordered the top spec model) works out at good value. Plus, for some silly reason our expenses system classifies car mileage fuel reclaim by engine size. At 2.5 litre this works out in my favour (very generous considering I get 53mpg on a long trip versus an assumed 27) albeit I do feel guilty.

This is a car. A relatively bulletproof car and not a gadget pretending to be a car. Build quality is very good and it drives like a Rolls Royce. Solid build and feels safe. Probably the smoothest drive drain in the business. Engine and emotor sound is usually imperceptible unless you put your foot down and even then it is reasonably civilised despite whining

AWD is excellent. Been on light trails, mud, and even icy parts early this morning. It's very steady on its feet. More rear motor power would be welcome however.

Handling is better than most SUVs I've driven. Doesn't excessively roll and centres quickly. Much better than my last 300hp PHEV now I've been able to toss it around a little. Surprising because the ground clearance is high, which I wanted. Probably a lowered centre of gravity due to the Battery on the floor plate.

Ride quality is smooth, not too soft and not too hard albeit closer to firm than soft. I prefer this.

Performance and economy ... it genuinely achieves best of both worlds. In EV mode I'm getting 42 miles now (8C) and over 52 miles (20C). Not trying to drive economically plus air con was on. Mpg I managed to get 52 or 53 mpg despite most of that being a little above 70mph. Performance, is exceptional. Only come across Teslas faster off the line at the lights. It really annoys folk. And mid range power is comparable if not better than a Toyota Supra. 60mph and need rapid overtaking maneuvers then the power is instant and rocket like. And it keeps on going and going and going.

The tech? It's 10 years out of date but it is reasonably solid and not flakey. It just works in a reassuring way. The reversing camera is however like a scene from a pirate copy of ET on VHS long play in 1982. And the tracking is out. The HUD (top spec model) on the other hand is bright, crisp and large. I find it invaluable. Compass on there, speed, speed limit, adaptive cruise settings, lane following etc. One of the better HUDs I've used. I love this. Offers a break from the cluttered drivers display or MID.

Blind spot and cross traffic (not sure if on all trims) works well. I like the annotations on the reversing camera on the infotainment. And the indication lights are good and bright on the wing mirrors.

Internal lighting is weak. Especially the boot light. Swapped that out with advice here for LED. As I did with the reversing lights. Too weak to be useful. Now LEDs. 2 minute job and a few quid. No hardship here. Now much better.

Seating is good but be warned the passenger seat is not height adjustable and it is set high. My wife, 5ft 9ish, has to recline the seat or her head is too close to the roof (pan roof on mine). Only issue I have as driver is the hard plastic console on the left leg. But you can buy a stick on leather-foam buffer for that (in my plan). Not an issue per se but could have been made soft touch material for a bit better comfort. I'm 6ft 2, 200lbs.

Pan roof is reasonably large but not the biggest or best I've had on a car but at least it doesn't leak! For me the car colouring inside is rather dark and drab so it benefits from the extra light in through a pan roof (top trim?).

Underfloor cargo zone storage is good. Managed to get all my emergency and survival gear, brolly, blankets, etc. under the panel. I've added a double net to the seat backs and a standard cargo net across the floor. Easy for locking things down from shopping to DIY materials and suitcases.

My app works well for me. Would like a few more functions but better than other car apps I've used. Just not anywhere near the Tesla league.

Sound system even on the upgraded JBL is distinctly average and not great but good enough for me. 

Sat Nav? Best to stick with Android Auto and Car Play. Useful for an emergency or a plan b.

Infotainment screen is large on the top spec model but low resolution. Good enough for Android Auto or Car Play. Readable for me even in relatively bright sunlight.

Overall, this is a car you can depend on. It's a masterpiece of industrial engineering rather than trendy tech and aesthetics. It's very economical and very fast. It is a utilitarian vehicle, an explorer car, a road trip car, and an around town car. If you can get one at some stage for 40k it will be a bargain until then you are probably paying the extra to have the power on tap (and the remote preconditioning especially for winter?) or you can make the economics work because you do a lot of miles.

[ernieb]

Nick, pretty good assessment of the car to be honest and although I’m very frustrated at the massive price drop, as I bought mine, it’s still a great car to drive.  I think particularly at the current prices it’s an even better buy, solid, reliable but still fun.

[Nick72]

1 hour ago, ernieb said:

Nick, pretty good assessment of the car to be honest and although I’m very frustrated at the massive price drop, as I bought mine, it’s still a great car to drive.  I think particularly at the current prices it’s an even better buy, solid, reliable but still fun.

Agreed. I could have saved myself nearly 120 quid a month. But happy all the same. 

[Flatcoat]

I thought Toyota had backdated the price drop to all purchases since 1st September? Mine is a private buy and only possible because a) the drop and b) I got much more than planned for when I sold my old car. Interestingly that was a 300bhp PHEV but a diesel and after remapping covered 0-60 under 6secs. As a car brought to market in 2011 The screen resolution wasn’t great either so i probably won’t notice a problem with the RAV. According to a review I watched yesterday, the screen quality has improved since launch….

[Nick72]

4 minutes ago, Flatcoat said:

I thought Toyota had backdated the price drop to all purchases since 1st September? Mine is a private buy and only possible because a) the drop and b) I got much more than planned for when I sold my old car. Interestingly that was a 300bhp PHEV but a diesel and after remapping covered 0-60 under 6secs. As a car brought to market in 2011 The screen resolution wasn’t great either so i probably won’t notice a problem with the RAV. According to a review I watched yesterday, the screen quality has improved since launch….

I'm definitely unlikely to see any back dated price drop despite registration in September.  Someone will pocket that.

The screen is ok but not as good as the Mokka or Tuscon loaners I've had and they were budget cars. It's functional and large so it works.

[Flatcoat]

The latest Hyundai screen is generally regarded as one of the very best. I test drive the new Tucson and really liked it but the PHEV 4wd will not tow our caravan and the HEV isn’t available with 4wd. I also suspect Toyota have a better PHEV system. 

[Rav Rob]

3 hours ago, ernieb said:

Nick, pretty good assessment of the car to be honest and although I’m very frustrated at the massive price drop, as I bought mine, it’s still a great car to drive.  I think particularly at the current prices it’s an even better buy, solid, reliable but still fun.

It is annoying, the PHEV just didn't quite make our company car list on price. It would now! but I already ordered another hybrid RAV. I missed out by a few weeks. Now the order is locked in there is no cancellation in our company. Your charitable feelings towards Toyota are admirable, your more forgiving than me.

That said, this week I had to use a hire car, a nice new Ford Focus, it wasn't terrible but the slow witted auto gearbox, lack of driver aids, low profile tyres causing irritating ride on a long trip. I was so happy to get back in my smooth, responsive, easy driving RAV.

[Nick72]

17 hours ago, Flatcoat said:

The latest Hyundai screen is generally regarded as one of the very best. I test drive the new Tucson and really liked it but the PHEV 4wd will not tow our caravan and the HEV isn’t available with 4wd. I also suspect Toyota have a better PHEV system. 

Had a Tuscon loaner. Really liked it. 

But the R4P drive train is by a very long chalk the best in class. And the torque and power is immense.

[Nick72]

16 hours ago, Rav Rob said:

It is annoying, the PHEV just didn't quite make our company car list on price. It would now! but I already ordered another hybrid RAV. I missed out by a few weeks. Now the order is locked in there is no cancellation in our company. Your charitable feelings towards Toyota are admirable, your more forgiving than me.

That said, this week I had to use a hire car, a nice new Ford Focus, it wasn't terrible but the slow witted auto gearbox, lack of driver aids, low profile tyres causing irritating ride on a long trip. I was so happy to get back in my smooth, responsive, easy driving RAV.

Looking forward to see what Toyota do on their EVs. The BZ whatever it is ...SUV. In 3 years it will be either that, a Rivian, or will see what Volvo does on an XC60 EV. Top spec Kia EV6 could also be interesting.

Or I might just buy the R4P on a good deal from our fleet company. Lots of folk have made a lot of money buying at auction price from them despite very low mileage, running for a couple if years, selling for what they paid for it, rejoining the company car scheme after. Repeat.

[nlee]

I think that's an excellent honest review in the OP by @Nick72 and I'd appreciate something like that from a genuine owner when I was buying.

I couldn't agree more with all that applies to the dynamic model PHEV.

I've come from my last three vehicles being various Land Rover models. The earlier ones were still fairly utilitarian. Ok they're now marketed as a more premium vehicle. The list price of my pretty much top of the range Disco Sport was a few grand more back in 2018 than I paid for the RAV4 and may have had a few more premium materials but the tech was no better so I don't have anything better to compare with. 

In my humble opinion, the RAV4 PHEV as a complete package smashes my last Land Rover out of the park.

With regards the tech, to me it's like a buying a computer. If you want fancy screens and lots of neat things you probably don't need you buy a Mac. If you want something that performs the core role really well and efficiently you can get a Chromebook. And I wouldn't insult the Toyota tech by comparing to Windows!

[ernieb]

Mac every time + TimeMachine HDD and your good to go.

[nlee]

3 minutes ago, ernieb said:

Mac every time + TimeMachine HDD and your good to go.

You should have got a Tesla 😄

[Nick72]

3 minutes ago, nlee said:

I think that's an excellent honest review in the OP by @Nick72 and I'd appreciate something like that from a genuine owner when I was buying.

I couldn't agree more with all that applies to the dynamic model PHEV.

I've come from my last three vehicles being various Land Rover models. The earlier ones were still fairly utilitarian. Ok they're now marketed as a more premium vehicle. The list price of my pretty much top of the range Disco Sport was a few grand more back in 2018 than I paid for the RAV4 and may have had a few more premium materials but the tech was no better so I don't have anything better to compare with. 

In my humble opinion, the RAV4 PHEV as a complete package smashes my last Land Rover out of the park.

With regards the tech, to me it's like a buying a computer. If you want fancy screens and lots of neat things you probably don't need you buy a Mac. If you want something that performs the core role really well and efficiently you can get a Chromebook. And I wouldn't insult the Toyota tech by comparing to Windows!

Thanks, much appreciated. Hopefully helpful for those looking or just ordered and want some reassurance. 

I looked briefly at Land Rovers and was tempted but experiences from friends that own them weren't great. Reliability and the tech just wasn't solid enough for me.

[ernieb]

I know someone who works at LR and would not have one even if it was given to her for free.  I had a LR Freelander it was without doubt the most unreliable and costly car I have ever owned.

[ernieb]

6 minutes ago, nlee said:

You should have got a Tesla 😄

Before I moved to a Mac I figured they were so expensive to own in comparison to a good Windows machine, however, the Mac does come complete with a high quality monitor built in and an OS that is next to bullet proof in comparison to Windows OS. 

[nlee]

20 minutes ago, Nick72 said:

Thanks, much appreciated. Hopefully helpful for those looking or just ordered and want some reassurance. 

I looked briefly at Land Rovers and was tempted but experiences from friends that own them weren't great. Reliability and the tech just wasn't solid enough for me.

I think you made the right decision

16 minutes ago, ernieb said:

I know someone who works at LR and would not have one even if it was given to her for free.  I had a LR Freelander it was without doubt the most unreliable and costly car I have ever owned.

I know what you are saying. I was lucky with all mine, I didn't have too many issues. The cost of servicing and parts were ridiculous though and the service was awful. In fact, I might have had another one of I hadn't fallen out with the local dealership and others were just too far away. In hindsight, I think they did me a favour because I think this car is so much better.

[Broadway One]

21 hours ago, Nick72 said:

Hopefully this is helpful to newbie owners and those considering this car.

 

16 minutes ago, nlee said:

With regards the tech, to me it's like a buying a computer. If you want fancy screens and lots of neat things you probably don't need you buy a Mac. If you want something that performs the core role really well and efficiently you can get a Chromebook. And I wouldn't insult the Toyota tech by comparing to Windows!

Thanks Nick for a balanced, informative posting.

I also find the RAV a great motor with a host of goodies on a superb engineered base.

The way Toyota blend EV/ICE via the CVT is out there with the best IMO.

Like Ernie's take on this, just let the motor seamlessly float between the two.   

A comprehensive package, just take what suits that makes life easier; my daughters love it.

I have an Apple Mac desktop containing far more than the essential bits I use on a daily basis.

Like having a Ferrari to do the shopping, probably do it very well, but capable of far, far more.

I'm very happy to have both in my life. 

Barry Wright Lancashire.

 

       

[Lawnmowerman]

Having been disappointed with the reliability of VAG group products (DSG transmissions & Haldex 4wd systems), I was intrigued to learn more about Toyota's Hybrid system.

Then I spotted the dreaded acronym - CVT. It immediately took me back to DAF Variomatic (remember them - forward to go forward, back to go back). Then Nissan with their version (and others) I wasn't impressed by the sound of it - all those belts and pulleys).

However, the fabulous transmission strip down by Weber State University was a game changer. No belts, no pulleys - an epicyclic transmission that looked bullet proof.

I'm in - fabulous system.

 

 

[ernieb]

I felt the same about the CVT system then I had a test drive and finally bought a Subaru XV just a different league to the old Daf's and later generations of that design, moving to the epicyclic system was. game changer.

That said, I've had 3 cars with the VW DSG and Haldex systems and never had any issues at all, all under the Skoda banner, but still very much from the VW parts bin. Sometimes the luck of the draw or maybe the fact that the Skoda kit was often not made in Germany but in the Skoda factories.

[Flatcoat]

2 hours ago, ernieb said:

I felt the same about the CVT system then I had a test drive and finally bought a Subaru XV just a different league to the old Daf's and later generations of that design, moving to the epicyclic system was. game changer.

That said, I've had 3 cars with the VW DSG and Haldex systems and never had any issues at all, all under the Skoda banner, but still very much from the VW parts bin. Sometimes the luck of the draw or maybe the fact that the Skoda kit was often not made in Germany but in the Skoda factories.

To be honest had the new Tiguan PHEV been 4wd we would probably have bought one. Came very, very close having found one in stock however…… the lack of 4wd, less powerful hybrid package (albeit plenty of remap solutions) finally decided against and cancelled order. I am a big VAG fan (and my wife is German) so buying Toyota is quite a big step for us .

[Yorkboy]

There is a surprising number of so called motoring journalists that still think the Toyota hybrid CVTs is all pulleys and belts. 

[Cyker]

Yeah, it's ridiculous how long the system has been around and so many of them still think it's pulleys and belts! Even if they don't read or pay attention outside their own bubble they must have gleaned this by now?!

I think that was a Toyota blunder, calling it a CVT, because it really isn't a CVT except in the vaguest sense, and certainly not in the conventional sense.

They should have just called the HSD from the start and stuck with that to differentiate it - It's a clever system, essentially using the planetary geubikt as a differential to link 2 prime movers together (i.e. the ICE and MG2) with a motor to mediate power between the two (MG1). This is the only gear system with multiple gear ratios I am aware of that doesn't involve any slipping/sliding parts to transmit power!

Any other company would have made up some BS marketing buzz term to advertise it; Only Toyota could call such a clever system something so boring as CVT  

 

Edit: the filtered  geubikt is gear set

[ernieb]

I watched an explanation on YouTube of the ‘CVT’ system in the PHEV, wow it’s something else, very clever. (US guy The Car Nut Channel”

[Stopeter44]

Toyota calls it e-cvt, and like everybody else I thought back to the old DAF variomatic.

9 minutes ago, Cyker said:

They should have just called the HSD from the start and stuck with that to differentiate it - It's a clever system, essentially using the planetary g-ears-et* as a differential to link 2 prime movers together (i.e. the ICE and MG2) with a motor to mediate power between the two (MG1). This is the only gear system with multiple gear ratios I am aware of that doesn't involve any slipping/sliding parts to transmit power!

 It took me all of 6 weeks, digging here and there to find the answer as to what makes the HSD (Hybrid Synergy Drive) a CVT. I really could not figure it out. @Cyker I think puts it into a nut Shell, the "mediation" motor, which if memory serves is attached to what called the "sun" gear in the planetary g-ears-et*. 

* take out the "-" hyphens to get the right word, the anti swearword filter can't find it's rear end nether regions in the dark!

[Broadway One]

12 minutes ago, Cyker said:

They should have just called the HSD from the start and stuck with that to differentiate it - It's a clever system, essentially using the planetary geubikt as a differential to link 2 prime movers together (i.e. the ICE and MG2) with a motor to mediate power between the two (MG1). This is the only gear system with multiple gear ratios I am aware of that doesn't involve any slipping/sliding parts to transmit power!

Hi...... Confess I to thought CVT involved cones & sliding belts.

The posting has wet my appetite; what the hell is "planetary geobikt".

Need to be abreast of all aspects, never owned a car that creates such a talking point.

Would appreciate a link that details yet another Toyota latent techo. whizz.  

Barry Wright Lancashire.