Aygo x shift problem

[WillWadd]

Hi everyone, first post. We have a 2019 x shift Aygo. Recently we have noticed that when reversing up our drive ( not too steep ) there is a horrible burning smell. Also it has started to be very jerky when taking off in 1st gear. Car has been to dealer who have as usual said that they can't find anything wrong with it !

Has anyone else had this problem ? Do these cars have a normal clutch plate or several smaller discs like my DSG Scirocco ? Car has only covered 6500 miles. Car is going back in to dealer next week so would like some info to take with me. Thanks in advance.

[Guest]

The x-shift uses the same 190mm clutch as the manual cars.

I've noticed than on the recent cold damp mornings my x-shift is a bit jerky for the first few times moving off, but within a couple of minutes it's back to normal smooth starts.

I test drove a manual Aygo before ordering my x-shift last year and experienced the burning smell when reversing back into the dealers parking space. Where I used to live in Devon the drive was very steep but I never experienced the burning smell when reversing up that.

[WillWadd]

Hi, thanks for your reply. That's interesting that you had this on a manual but not the x shift. Gearchange the last few mornings has been initially jerky but settles down ( it has been cold and damp ) after warming up. Will monitor it over the next few days before going to the dealer next week. It will be their usual reply that they can't find anything wrong with it. Previous to the Aygo we had a Citroen C1 with the same gearbox. In the three years we had it apart from servicing it never gave us a bit of trouble. This Aygo has been to the dealer about four times now. Thought that Toyotas were meant to be reliable ?

[haelewyn]

I measure car reliability considering how many times the car didn't drive or how many times I had to ask the garage to replace parts.
So in that view, the reliability of the car you have is still perfect.

Usually it isn't doing bad at all in surveys where reliability of cars is being compared. Hope you will have good times with the Aygo later on.

Here is an explanation about the gearbox that you have and about how it is made.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimode_manual_transmission

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, WillWadd said:

 Previous to the Aygo we had a Citroen C1 with the same gearbox. In the three years we had it apart from servicing it never gave us a bit of trouble. This Aygo has been to the dealer about four times now. Thought that Toyotas were meant to be reliable ?

The C1 uses the same mechanicals (Toyota engine, gearbox, brakes, suspension, etc.) and was built in the same factory by the same people (& robots) on the same production line! The only differences are design and cosmetic.

What you are seeing isn't the difference between Toyotas and Citroens - it's variations between different vehicles, you have just been unlucky with the Aygo.

[Wiz201]

I've got an x shift 2020 and only on one occasion I had a burning smell when reversing, but I put that down to reversing up my parent's steep driveway after washing it. I've been reversing out of that driveway since then and its been fine. 

[haelewyn]

21 hours ago, WillWadd said:

Gearchange the last few mornings has been initially jerky but settles down ( it has been cold and damp ) after warming up. 

Did you release the accelerator pedal while the X mode shifts ?

I don't have an MMT or never drove one but it's one of the things I read about how to drive this transmission...

Maybe you know this trick for years. Small chance you didn't but I thought it was worth a try :

"""""

• Gear change: The gear change in MMT is noticeable, unlike in a full automatic car. Under E gear, the car will automatically change the gear depending on speed and gradient information. It is recommended that the accelerator pedal should be momentarily lifted off during gear change. A constant throttle can also be maintained on the accelerator, and gear change can still occur, although the car will feel noticeably more jerky during gear change than in a full automatic.    """"""

[rich146]

On 11/9/2021 at 8:52 AM, PetrolDave said:

The x-shift uses the same 190mm clutch as the manual cars.

I've noticed than on the recent cold damp mornings my x-shift is a bit jerky for the first few times moving off, but within a couple of minutes it's back to normal smooth starts.

I test drove a manual Aygo before ordering my x-shift last year and experienced the burning smell when reversing back into the dealers parking space. Where I used to live in Devon the drive was very steep but I never experienced the burning smell when reversing up that.

How was the comparison between transmission types? I went straight for X-shift in part because Im used to auto, but also residual works out better with x-shift than manual when its time to sell. Thanks

[Guest]

19 hours ago, rich146 said:

How was the comparison between transmission types?

I'd driven a manual Mk1 for 10 years and found the manual Mk2 almost identical - the 'gap' between 3rd & 4th gear ratios was noticeably larger due a change made to improve emissions figures many years ago.

I'd always wanted a car with paddle shifters and did even research converting my Mk1 to MMT but as it was an old one with a cable throttle (not a drive-by wire one) I gave up on that idea as I would need a new inlet manifold and throttle pedal as well as all the shifter assembly, electronics modules and wiring changes so went for the x-shift this time round. I always drive it in M mode and prefer the x-shift when driving in heavy traffic as I like not having to take my hands off the steering wheel to change gear.

For me the only things I don't like are how long it takes to downshift into 1st and it's tendency to stick in 2nd even when just barely moving, both of which can make pulling out at e.g. a roundabout a bit of a lottery if I don't manually change down to 1st - either there's a delay before you shoot off in 1st or 'staggering' off in 2nd with the clutch slipping. 

[WillWadd]

Thanks to everyone who responded. I deliberately haven't replied to the comments as I was waiting on Toyota getting back to me as the car went to the dealer yesterday. They have phoned this morning to say that the car needs a new clutch ! Car has only done 6700 miles and is used by my wife to go to and from her work five days a week which is approx a six mile round journey and other general running around - shopping etc. She was told it was down to her driving style ?? They are wanting 1k for a new clutch. What is everyone's thoughts on this ? Thanks.

[haelewyn]

Still under warranty ? Then it should be fixed under warranty I guess. I cant really imagine how a customer can ruin the clutch in so short time by mistake on an automatic. I am tempted to think it's not really her fault.

However ..  From keeping it 'holding' on a hill often in gear perhaps but I doubt she would have done that so often ?

By often having the car leave in 2nd gear and with slipping clutch but that is kind of the gearbox that chooses the gear and not your wife.

These were some examples from things this kind of automatic can't handle well because of the design. Things that would be less harmful to an other (real) type of automatic gearbox.

[WillWadd]

According to Toyota there is only a 3month/3000 mile warranty on a clutch ! There is a hill hold facility on the car which holds the car on a hill and automatically releases when you come off the brake. Dealer wants £270 to remove the gearbox and examine the clutch or nearly £1100 to fit a new clutch !

[Guest]

I would contact Toyota GB direct to ask if they will (at least) make a goodwill contribution given that the mileage is so low and as it's MMT the driver has no control over the clutch so there can be no 'user error'.

[haelewyn]

Sorry mate, I never heard of a 3 month warranty on a clutch.
Just as for brakes, wipers, lights,  i heard of the principle that items that wear out by using them are not covered.
But they should still last a reasonable time IMHO.

I haven't 'studied' the hill hold system in the Aygo.
If it uses the brakes to hold the car in place and puts the gear in neutral, there is no problem to the clutch I guess.
If the gear would stay in first and the clutch working (with or wihout using the clutch), it would mean extra wear to the car's clutch.
Just like with an old school automatic : you keep it in drive, push the brake and hold it in place like that.. That wears out the system more than it should and

it's better to always select N or P (no P on aygo, i know).

I do hear the limited and cheap automatic system Toyota uses is not great and has limitations / more wear than it should often.
My dealer told me it works best on Aygo , better than on bigger models, because of limited strain on a light vehicle.

Maybe you could ask the garage in what way they would say this is caused by (bad) driving. I guess they must be able to answer what type of driving they assume your wife did.
I would ask the garage if they can get the importer to pay at least part of the cost.
If they don't want to, nobody is stopping you asking the importer yourself.

Never sure you will get what you want but it's worth asking.

I don't have specific Aygo experience with automatics ...  Other people can maybe comment more 'to the point' than me.
You said before you are not so happy with your Aygo. I can relate to your feeling more now.
Shouldn't have a major cost like this on a car that has done 10.000 km.

[fordulike]

55 minutes ago, WillWadd said:

They have phoned this morning to say that the car needs a new clutch ! Car has only done 6700 miles and is used by my wife to go to and from her work five days a week which is approx a six mile round journey and other general running around - shopping etc. She was told it was down to her driving style ?? They are wanting 1k for a new clutch. What is everyone's thoughts on this ? Thanks.

Absolutely ludicrous for the dealer to be saying that it is your wife's driving style. I could understand this on a manual, but on a MMT 🤨

I would be straight onto head office, making my feelings known. If you kick up enough stink, then hopefully they will either repair it at Toyota's expense, or at least offer a gesture of goodwill. At the end of the day, it's in their interest to look after a potential returning customer to their company.

[WillWadd]

I've just come off the phone to Toyota Customer services. They are saying that a clutch is a wear and tear item and only covered for three months or 3000 miles ! I don't know how you can ride the clutch as you would do in a manual car ? I am waiting on a call back from Toyota CS or the dealer. Safe to say that when I'm replacing the car in March it won't be a Toyota. I know everyone will say that it's the same with every manufacturer but I think that Toyota could make themselves look good by offering some sort of goodwill gesture the way the VAG group do.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Commonly new car warranties do only cover clutches for a limited time - similar to brake discs, etc - and this will vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. From the OP's profile, the car is a 2019 model, so despite the low mileage it could be two years old plus. Also continued short journeys could have an impact on the life of the clutch.

Bear in mind that the X-Shift, same as the previous Multi Mode transmission, is a manual gearbox with an automated clutch. Is the car put into neutral when stationery at traffic lights, etc - as doing otherwise could affect the clutch life?

As regards goodwill, does the car have a full Toyota service history and has it been serviced according to requirements (ie as it has done 6,500 miles, every 12 months)?

[WillWadd]

It doesn't say anywhere in the owners manual to put it in to neutral when not moving. Previous to this we had a Citroen C1 with the same gearbox driven the same way which had covered 26000 miles and was perfect when sold. That car is still going with a lot more miles on it with its original clutch.

[FROSTYBALLS]

So is it put into neutral when stationery? Service history?

[WillWadd]

2 services, third service due March 2021.

[FROSTYBALLS]

19 minutes ago, WillWadd said:

It doesn't say anywhere in the owners manual to put it in to neutral when not moving.

The manual doesn't do so for the manual gearbox either but it is good practice to put it into neutral when stationery to save wear on the clutch. So is it put into neutral when stationery?? Service history - Toyota or other??

[FROSTYBALLS]

5 minutes ago, WillWadd said:

2 services, third service due March 2021.

Presume that should be 2022.

[WillWadd]

Typo, sorry. Yes March 2022.

[Catlover]

The services done - were they at Toyota service centres?

[WillWadd]

First one was done at Toyota and second one was an independent garage using genuine Toyota parts.