Fual cleaner

[Ih1]

2017 avensis just back from a service from toyota. They recommended a fual cleaner to be added what brand is everyone using

[jimtaxi]

28 minutes ago, Ih1 said:

2017 avensis just back from a service from toyota. They recommended a fual cleaner to be added what brand is everyone using

Have used various cleaners all work well, three Avensis models 243000 mls, 185000 mls and now 54000 mls with no injecter or fuel economy issues using redex at the moment as Tesco had it on for £2 a bottle.

[Stivino]

36 minutes ago, Ih1 said:

2017 avensis just back from a service from toyota. They recommended a fual cleaner to be added what brand is everyone using

Is your fuel dirty?

[Ih1]

11 minutes ago, Stivino said:

Is your fuel dirty?

Dont thinkso supposedly they recommended it to clean the injectors and that

[Tomv]

I don't like to mess with additives, some smell pretty bad 🙂  I would just use some premium fuel. 3-5 full tanks , cleaning additives are usually included.

and it's recommended to change oil after using cleaning additives  because the "dirt" can spoil it.

[Grogey]

On 11/19/2021 at 10:24 PM, Tomv said:

I don't like to mess with additives, some smell pretty bad 🙂  I would just use some premium fuel. 3-5 full tanks , cleaning additives are usually included.

and it's recommended to change oil after using cleaning additives  because the "dirt" can spoil it.

Hi Tomv, should you change the oil after running 3-5 full tanks premium fuel. All that included cleaning additives must generate a lot of dirt. My Toyota dealer service centre has always recommended adding cleaning additives at services. Ironically just as they have changed the oil.

I've never taken up this part of the service, as, feeling it is within my technical ability ability to read a lab and pour fluid into the tank filler point, I have generally added the fuel additives every 5000miles or so myself. Plus they are cheaper to buy in Halfords than what Toyota charge. 

Cheers

[Grogey]

Hi Ih1, Over the years I've used Wynns, Redex, STP products and probably other brands without issues. Sometimes I use the 'add every fill' versions and just use it until the bottle is empty. Other times I've used the more occasional intensive treatment types. I've also chucked in DPF cleaners and EGR cleaners once or twice. The EGR is pretty hard to clean using additives and you can't beat taking it of and cleaning it out with kerosene. And at 10 years old I used Wynns MAF sensor cleaner.

Does any of it help. Maybe, but no appreciable harm has been done.

I'd recommend getting one of the 'occasional use' intensive fuel and injector cleaning treatments. Pick one at the price point you are happy to pay.

If you want to see how extreme fuel additives can get look at the guys running Ethylhexyl nitrate and mineral 2 stroke oil. Or the community of drivers on facebook who illegally run agricultural diesel for 100s of thousands of miles in Euro 5, 6 or 7 compliant engines without problems, when it supposedly will kill there fuel injection systems.

[Cyker]

Is it a petrol engine? If it is and you use the car regularly, you won't need any fuel system cleaner, esp. now that we're on E10 - The ethanol is already a solvent and will start to eat away at any existing deposits. That's partly why E-anything is bad for older cars as it also eats away at organic rubber seals and such!

 

[Red_Corolla]

Is this the recommendation of Toyota GB, or a dealership who just happens to offer such products for sale should the customer wish to purchase them there?

Fuel quality in the UK is very good. I'd be very surprised if any manufacturer was actually recommending the use of fuel system additives themselves, same goes for lubricants.

[Ih1]

49 minutes ago, Red_Corolla said:

Is this the recommendation of Toyota GB, or a dealership who just happens to offer such products for sale should the customer wish to purchase them there?

Fuel quality in the UK is very good. I'd be very surprised if any manufacturer was actually recommending the use of fuel system additives themselves, same goes for lubricants.

Was my local arnold clark toyota dealership they put it in the service notes of ever service my car has had the last 4 years the car has only done 12.500 miles 

[Trewithy]

2 hours ago, Ih1 said:

Was my local arnold clark toyota dealership they put it in the service notes of ever service my car has had the last 4 years the car has only done 12.500 miles 

       ?

[Tomv]

4 hours ago, Grogey said:

Hi Tomv, should you change the oil after running 3-5 full tanks premium fuel. All that included cleaning additives must generate a lot of dirt. My Toyota dealer service centre has always recommended adding cleaning additives at services. Ironically just as they have changed the oil.

I've never taken up this part of the service, as, feeling it is within my technical ability ability to read a lab and pour fluid into the tank filler point, I have generally added the fuel additives every 5000miles or so myself. Plus they are cheaper to buy in Halfords than what Toyota charge. 

Cheers

 

 

 

With my previous older car I timed it the way, that I used premium fuel just before the regular oil change was coming.

Usually 3 -5 tanks and also used the car  at higher engine rpm/speed  then I'm normally do, which helps the cleaning.

This way you don't have to pay for extra oil change.

Now with my new Corolla I use premium fuel all the time, hope it will prevent carbon buildup. It's way more fuel efficient, then the older one, that I don't mind the extra fuel cost.

[Grogey]

4 hours ago, Red_Corolla said:

Is this the recommendation of Toyota GB, or a dealership who just happens to offer such products for sale should the customer wish to purchase them there?

Fuel quality in the UK is very good. I'd be very surprised if any manufacturer was actually recommending the use of fuel system additives themselves, same goes for lubricants.

It's Toyota GB, my local main Toyota Dealer is Charles Hurst.  I've assumed it is upselling on there standard service package. But I prefer to buy my snake oil at regular retail prices not main dealer prices.

My current vehicle runs well so I see no marked difference when adding a fuel additive. I don't add it to fix problems but instead to prevent them. However I have bought various second hand cars that improved markedly after dosing with fuel system cleaner. I prefer to do this than carry out the Italian Tune Up

UK fuel is very good but it is not perfect by it's very nature. Nor are engines and fuel tanks particularly self cleaning.

Is the entire fuel system cleaner additive industry a con, carried out by the fuel suppliers, the main dealers and the additive producers?

[TonyHSD]

Wynns additives are one of the best on the market, follow the instructions promptly and use exactly as recommended, and if there is no change after use that means there was no need of it to begin with. Injector cleaner and catalytic converter and lambda sensor cleaner works magic. Highly recommended stuff. I also use stp engine flush before every oil change, that thing is good too or wynns engine flush as well, 👍

[2009joe]

6 hours ago, Grogey said:

Hi Tomv, should you change the oil after running 3-5 full tanks premium fuel. All that included cleaning additives must generate a lot of dirt. My Toyota dealer service centre has always recommended adding cleaning additives at services. Ironically just as they have changed the oil.

I've never taken up this part of the service, as, feeling it is within my technical ability ability to read a lab and pour fluid into the tank filler point, I have generally added the fuel additives every 5000miles or so myself. Plus they are cheaper to buy in Halfords than what Toyota charge. 

Cheers

 

 

 

problem is compared to your car those other engines are different than yours .yours is the toyota 1adftv engine those newer ones are the bmw engines i hear there sore on oil etc 

[2009joe]

12 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

Wynns additives are one of the best on the market, follow the instructions promptly and use exactly as recommended, and if there is no change after use that means there was no need of it to begin with. Injector cleaner and catalytic converter and lambda sensor cleaner works magic. Highly recommended stuff. I also use stp engine flush before every oil change, that thing is good too or wynns engine flush as well, 👍

how often do you use the diesel additive  treatment each year. plus if you change the oil each year regularly u should not need the oil cleaning additive though. i put that stuff into my last car a 1.9tdi each year and well thought was doing good but tbh my head gasket went on that engine and well tbh i thought that oil cleaning additive caused it so i stopped tbh . the diesel additive aye maybe good but tbh the oil additive cleaning tbh i wouldn't recommend it 

[Red_Corolla]

19 minutes ago, Grogey said:

Is the entire fuel system cleaner additive industry a con, carried out by the fuel suppliers, the main dealers and the additive producers?

Not quite. I put it in the same category as the A/C system cleaners that have become fashionable for garages to peddle in recent years. These products may well be effective but that doesn't make them necessary as a preventative.

11 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

Wynns additives are one of the best on the market, follow the instructions promptly and use exactly as recommended, and if there is no change after use that means there was no need of it to begin with. Injector cleaner and catalytic converter and lambda sensor cleaner works magic. Highly recommended stuff. I also use stp engine flush before every oil change, that thing is good too or wynns engine flush as well, 👍

Has anyone who likes to use additives actually run their vehicle without them until he point where the fuel injectors start to clog and need to be ultrasonically cleaned or replaced altogether in order to restore the lost performance ? What I'm interested in knowing is at what point does that arrive on modern fuels? Only by answering that question can we know if it's actually worth bothering with the stuff in the first place.

For the record, I do a lot of unnecessary maintenance myself (excessive oil changes, for example) so I don't have any problem with people using fuel system additives, I just genuinely don't see any value in it in this day & age.

[TonyHSD]

51 minutes ago, Red_Corolla said:

Not quite. I put it in the same category as the A/C system cleaners that have become fashionable for garages to peddle in recent years. These products may well be effective but that doesn't make them necessary as a preventative.

Has anyone who likes to use additives actually run their vehicle without them until he point where the fuel injectors start to clog and need to be ultrasonically cleaned or replaced altogether in order to restore the lost performance ? What I'm interested in knowing is at what point does that arrive on modern fuels? Only by answering that question can we know if it's actually worth bothering with the stuff in the first place.

For the record, I do a lot of unnecessary maintenance myself (excessive oil changes, for example) so I don't have any problem with people using fuel system additives, I just genuinely don't see any value in it in this day & age.

I used  to use redex when fill up at supermarkets garages especially Sainsbury ones and immediately felt difference after add the additive,. During lock down I kept in ready mode on weekly basis and that is killing for the engine oil and fuel system particularly injectors and catalytic converter plus sensors,: had a bad pulsating on hard acceleration afterwards no matter what fuel I fill up. Wynns catalytic converter and lambda sensor cleaner helped me and the problem never returned ever since, I have a post about that issue in auris forum. Definitely there is a point of some additives and they really can help. , but the best is of course properly use of the car and quality fuels oils etc. 👍 

[Cyker]

It's all down to how much the car's been used. I saw this with diesel cars when I was hunting for one - The ones that had high mileage because they were in constant use all ran nice, but the ones formerly owned by the proverbial little old ladies who only went to the shops and back ran like a bag of nails.

I think additives work best for the latter case, as the engine never gets hot enough to burn all the crud away, and additives can really help mop that up, but so can putting in some V-Power and going for a hard motorway/countryroad hoon!

I think petrol cars are less prone to it, esp. now as they stick more and more ethanol in the fuel, but for cars that aren't driven much, a shot of additive can bring back lost performance. There is a large element of diminishing returns tho' - The more you do it the less of an effect it has as the system can only get so clean. IMHO there isn't any point doing it regularly unless there is something wrong with the car or it's driven very infrequently (In which case why even have one??)

 

[Red_Corolla]

31 minutes ago, Cyker said:

It's all down to how much the car's been used. I saw this with diesel cars when I was hunting for one - The ones that had high mileage because they were in constant use all ran nice, but the ones formerly owned by the proverbial little old ladies who only went to the shops and back ran like a bag of nails.

I think additives work best for the latter case, as the engine never gets hot enough to burn all the crud away, and additives can really help mop that up, but so can putting in some V-Power and going for a hard motorway/countryroad hoon!

 

Yes, diesel and lots of short running periods is not a good combination, not what they're designed to do.

In my case, I do modest mileage but I'm not actually hard on the car because there are many days when it doesn't even start due to working from home. When I do go out to site, the jobs tend to be a good distance away and the car gets good runs, even though that doesn't necessarily reflect on the odometer reading.

Infrequent use is not the problem, IMO. Simply sitting still a few days is no detriment, unless it's for so long that the fuel becomes stale or gummed up (which is more of a threat to petrol than diesel). It's when all of the usage is short distance that problems can arise, but my wife has been doing exactly that for years with her cars and never suffered any ill effects other than corroded brakes etc.

[Cyker]

Yea, exactly right! Being sat still is much better for them than only driving short distances!

Engines running cold is one of the most damaging things for them if it's done repeatedly. It accelerates crud building up on the injectors, and deposits forming on the valves, cylinders etc. as they never get burned off, so they just keep building up like plaque.

It's those cases where additives (Or in extreme cases, something like Teraclean!) can help a lot, but for well used cars the benefits are far smaller.

[NGRhodes]

I get my additives from https://www.hydra-int.com/fuel-additives.html

Yet to find anywhere better value for money, including against the high RON/cetane rated fuels.

In terms of cleaners, most of the cheap stuff is hydrocarbon based and when you look up the chemical components  from the safety sheets they are using very cheap lighter oils like naphtha, kerosene and parafin, you could make your own very cheap cleaner.
What you do want to look out for are nitrogen based (amine) chemicals, these have the ability to bind and dissolve with carbon deposits AND they are not ignitable, so they can clean not just injectors, but also post combustion, EGR and Turbo (which no hydrocarbon based cleaner can do). PEA is the most common, I did notice that some of the more expensive Wynns products contain this, as do some of the products available from Hydra, who I linked to above. Its also in V-Power (which is why they used the Nitro name for a while in the UK).

[NGRhodes]

56 minutes ago, Cyker said:

Yea, exactly right! Being sat still is much better for them than only driving short distances!

Engines running cold is one of the most damaging things for them if it's done repeatedly. It accelerates crud building up on the injectors, and deposits forming on the valves, cylinders etc. as they never get burned off, so they just keep building up like plaque.

It's those cases where additives (Or in extreme cases, something like Teraclean!) can help a lot, but for well used cars the benefits are far smaller.

Engines warm up quicker being driven, heat energy is a direct product of throttle use (therefore driving over any time period is better than idle until the engine is warmed), modern thermostats are good at keeping the radiators off and letting the blocks warm up.

Teraclean is rubbish, they have been done by ASA a number of times for false advertising claims of performance/economy improvements, as it turns out they cannot provide any credible sources. Since then they have to rely on vague wording and customer testimonials.

[yossarian247]

On 11/20/2021 at 8:56 PM, Cyker said:

It's all down to how much the car's been used. I saw this with diesel cars when I was hunting for one - The ones that had high mileage because they were in constant use all ran nice, but the ones formerly owned by the proverbial little old ladies who only went to the shops and back ran like a bag of nails.

 

 

I once went with a friend to collect a Pug 205 diesel he'd just bought. It was the classic 'one elderly lady owner from new' car. He set off in it and I followed him back. After a few miles of him giving it the beans on a section of dual carriageway I noticed red sparks and lumps of black charcoal-like stuff falling out of it's tailpipe. I think it was the first time in its ten year life it had ever gone much above tickover and it was clearing all of the accumulated crud out of the exhaust. After a couple of hundred miles of him driving it it ran beautifully!

[FROSTYBALLS]

Toyota have their own Toyota branded fuel system cleaner -

https://www.toyota-europe.com/service-and-accessories/genuine-parts/fuel-system-cleaner

toyota-genuine-parts-2014-fuel-system-cleaner-brochure_tcm-11-284907.pdf