Problems with the automatic light feature.

[Trulivar]

Hi all,

I have a Yaris excel and my lights are coming on even though the car is just in the shade. You can't turn them off, all you can do is turn the sidelights on manually then turn back to automatic, but this only turns them off for a few seconds. In bright sunlight there is no problem. Is there any way to make them less sensitive. Cheers

[flash22]

Set the lights to off, the DRL's stay on all the time when in gear/handbrake off, if the lights are on (manual or auto) the DRLS's are off

Is your car a mk3 or mk4 (new shape) ?

[Cyker]

I was complaining about more or less the same issue - 

The whole problem is there is no OFF position on the stalk in the Mk4's, only Auto, Side and Main - At the moment the only workaround is to switch on the Sidelights and drive around with those all the time when it gets gloomy; It's not so bad if you have LED lights as all it does is dim the DRLs by 50% and switch on the rear lights, but if you have normal light it will switch lights.

As mentioned in the above thread I've e-mailed Toyota customer services (cr@toyota.co.uk) for a laugh, not expecting anything useful - As expected they didn't understand and the first reply was basically telling me how to turn off the auto high-beam. However, surprisingly, the last reply I had was a bit more positive:

Quote

 

Toyota Customer Relations ref: CASE1582554

Hello,

Thank you for your reply and my apologies for my confusion.

I think there may be a way we can turn the auto lights off but I need to check with our Technical Team.

Would you be so kind as to send me a clear photo of the indicator stalk showing the light switch options?

I look forward to hearing from you.

Kind regards,

Scot

 

... so if I hear anything useful I'll update the original thread!

 

[Trulivar]

Hi Flash22, 

My yaris is the latest version, the lights only have auto, side and headlight settings. There is a light sensitivity control in the vehicle settings, but I think this only affects the cabin lights. Perhaps there is an off switch, but I haven't found it.

Cheers

[flash22]

The light sensitivity is for the headlights

[Cyker]

I also tried the light sensitivity controls on Rosgoe's mention in the other thread, but like him I also found it didn't make any noticeable difference.

 

[flash22]

A look in old Emmanuel show stalk types A and B, Type B has an off (or DRL on position)  - that's just a ridiculous not have an off position

[Cyker]

Agreed.

I think all the Euro-spec ones are Type A, so no Off position  

What baffles me is just... *why*?? If someone told me the 'extra' Off position was omitted for cost saving reasons it would be stupid, but still vaguely believable. However, there is no way designing and implementing two *different* stalks could possible be cheaper than just having the one with an Off position!!

It makes... not even zero sense... *negative* sense!!

[preperationlaunch]

It's very reminiscent of Volvos before LED DRLs caught on. Many of those, the off position for the headlights would keep them on.

The only difference was, you couldn't put the main beams on with the headlights set to off.

To change the settings was a trip to the dealer. The car also had a light sensor to know when to dim the dash and set the stereo to night mode. The dusk sensor was adjustable, again as a dealer trip.

[Cyker]

Oh yes, I think Volvo's had the precursor to modern DRLs, and are at least partly responsible for them now a thing on *all* modern cars...

 

[flash22]

The stalk is a Toyota parts bin special

84329-33090

stalk without fogs

84329-02020

[MikeSh]

3 hours ago, Cyker said:

If someone told me the 'extra' Off position was omitted for cost saving reasons it would be stupid

I expect it's more to do with an endless stream of customers complaining that they have lights (the DRLs) on when the switch is Off. Eliminating that position better manages customer expectations (ie. stops Toyota being pestered by people who haven't yet worked out that DRLs aren't parking lights 🙂).

[Cyker]

Maybe...but if that was really the problem they could have just printed "DRL" instead of "Off"... and it still doesn't explain why there is an alternative stalk for the *same car* that *does* have the Off position!! It just makes no sense...

Anyhoo, for now I'm just resigned to driving around with the sidelights on all winter...!

It just annoys me when I know that I'm effectively paying extra money for some complicated automatic system, which actually works worse than just doing it manually!

[flash22]

The Camry and Rav4 uses the same stalk - are new cars being dumbed down by "driver aid's"

[MikeSh]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

It just annoys me when I know that I'm effectively paying extra money for some complicated automatic system, which actually works worse than just doing it manually!

If it cuts down the number of people driving around at night on DRLs, and thus dazzling me, then I'll call it a win.

[MikeSh]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

and it still doesn't explain why there is an alternative stalk for the *same car* that *does* have the Off position!! It just makes no sense...

Is it that the cars that have halogen lights and LED are different here for some reason? (No, I can't think of one, but that doesn't mean there isn't.)

[Cyker]

Maybe...? The only model that has halogens is the base Icon spec, the other 3 all are LED IIRC. I've only seen mine and dealer ones which all had the same stalk so I suspect the ones with the Off are in a different country, maybe Ireland?

If the auto system used the sidelights appropriately I'd not mind it, but it goes straight from DRLs to Dipped Beams, and with LED headlamps that is even more blinding, esp. around dusk! (The real kicker is it blinds me, reflecting of other people's shiny rear bumpers!!  )

In its current state I'd do a better job DIY...

[MikeSh]

10 hours ago, Cyker said:

If the auto system used the sidelights appropriately I'd not mind it, but it goes straight from DRLs to Dipped Beams, 

Driving on sidelights is not legal (in the UK). If you consider conditions warrant some illumination then you are required to use headlights. This goes back to before DRLs were a thing except on Volvos and Saabs.

AFAIK that still stands. The difference now is that if you don't think you need lighting you get DRLs.

My previous car actually prevented driving on the parking lights. In that switch position it changed to DRLs as soon as you turned the car on (or put it in D, I can't recall which now).

[flash22]

The stalk for the lighting is control side negative, so it doesn't carry any major current, all its doing is pulling the cluster/ecu pin(s) low

[Cyker]

7 hours ago, MikeSh said:

Driving on sidelights is not legal (in the UK). If you consider conditions warrant some illumination then you are required to use headlights. This goes back to before DRLs were a thing except on Volvos and Saabs.

AFAIK that still stands. The difference now is that if you don't think you need lighting you get DRLs.

My previous car actually prevented driving on the parking lights. In that switch position it changed to DRLs as soon as you turned the car on (or put it in D, I can't recall which now).

Where are you getting that from? Unless the highway code has changed since I last looked, sidelights are the minimum legal level of lighting required between sunset and sunrise, so what you say about them being illegal wouldn't make any sense.

The point is they have to be on at the minimum so other road users can see you.

The headlights are for your benefit, not other peoples - They let you see the road when there is inadequate ambient lighting. Going straight to the main beams when you can still see with ambient light could contravene the rule about not dazzling other road users unnecessarily (Mine certainly do!!)

In fact, I'm sure it says somewhere you're supposed to switch to sidelights when parked up temporarily (e.g. in a layby), rather than leaving the main beams on (like most people seem to do!).

 

[bathtub tom]

9 hours ago, MikeSh said:

Driving on sidelights is not legal (in the UK).

We're getting very incorrect 'legal' information on this site. A short while ago someone claimed speedos had to over read by 10%.

Do we think the mods should remove posts with incorrect legal information?

[MikeSh]

2 hours ago, Cyker said:

Where are you getting that from? Unless the highway code has changed since I last looked, sidelights are the minimum legal level of lighting required between sunset and sunrise, so what you say about them being illegal wouldn't make any sense.

This is daytime use, not night-time. The rule was introduced maybe 20 years ago now and got some publicity then:

226
You MUST use headlights when visibility is seriously reduced, generally when you cannot see for more than 100 metres (328 feet).

The takeaway from this is that if you are deliberately putting lights on in daytime then you must think visibility is pretty poor, in which case you are required to use headlights. So turning on only sidelights is 'illegal'.

To be fair I've never heard of a prosecution under this rule, but it could well have been used by plod as an excuse to pull someone over.

(Incidentally I think the minimum of sidelights at night is only on roads with speed limits of 30mph or less.)

[flash22]

113 says different................

113
You MUST

• ensure all sidelights and rear registration plate lights are lit between sunset and sunrise
• use headlights at night, except on a road which has lit street lighting. These roads are generally restricted to a speed limit of 30 mph (48 km/h) unless otherwise specified
• use headlights when visibility is seriously reduced (see Rule 226).

Night (the hours of darkness) is defined as the period between half an hour after sunset and half an hour before sunrise).
Laws RVLR regs 3, 24, & 25, (In Scotland - RTRA 1984 sect 82 (as amended by NRSWA, para 59 of sched 8))

 

So it's perfectly legal to drive with sidelights as long as the road has street lighting and 30mph

[Cyker]

I'm sorry MikeSh but you're inferring a meaning from that rule that just isn't there. The fact that DRLs are a thing in daylight just shows that reasoning is a fallacy. This inference that us turning on the sidelights is because we think it is hard to see is simply wrong, and is in fact the opposite of why we are doing it:

The whole reason me and the OP are having to use sidelights is because headlights are overkill for the situations they are automatically being turned on - There is absolutely *no* reason for a headlight to be turned on in broad daylight just because you have driven under the shade of a tree, but this is what the system will do currently, and will do it repeatedly.

This is why we want an Off mode, not just an Auto. The problem is, if Auto turns on the headlights, and Headlights turn on the headlights, and there is no Off, the *only* mode left to us that stops the headlights being turned on is sidelights mode! 

 

[MikeSh]

1 hour ago, flash22 said:

So it's perfectly legal to drive with sidelights as long as the road has street lighting and 30mph

At night and in good visibility. In poor visibility - day or night you MUST use headlights.