PHEV home wallbox charger

[LynxE]

Hello from Estonia!

I'm waiting for my PHEV and have a question regarding the charging process. I have an EV and a wall charger- ABB Terra Wallbox, 11 kW. It has 3 phases x 16A , which means 3.6 kW a phase, so I can charge my EV using the full capacity of the onboard AC charger. But in RAV4 PHEV specs they state that Toyota can use only a single-phase from Type 2 connector. Does it mean that I only can get 1x16A = 3.6 kW? Or did I get something wrong?

[IanML]

According to the ABB website https://new.abb.com/ev-charging/terra-ac-wallbox, both the single phase and 3 phase versions provide 32A charging to the Type 2 cable, but it does not make clear whether the 3 phase version it can combine 3 phase power into a single phase.  It could be done, but I think you need to ask the manufacturer, as it does not seem the documentation on the website addresses that point.

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by IanML
More complex than I first thought

[philip42h]

I certainly don't know, but I suspect that you are correct Anton. Your charger will provide up to 3.6kW on each of the three live pins in the type 2 plug / socket but the single phase charger in the car will draw from only one of these. I don't believe that there is an option for three phase charging on the PHEV ...

Someone else may well know better ...

[ernieb]

I’m not sure that will work unless you can configure the charger to give a Type 2 output. It’s very confusing but I’m aware that some chargers can be configured to match the type of required output of 7.4kw.

[IanML]

It's worse than that.  Type 2 describes the pin arrangements (single phase, 3 phase and DC) possible, but there does not appear to be any signalling between the car and the charger about what is required.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a4/Type2_Socket_de.svg/290px-Type2_Socket_de.svg.png

[philip42h]

1 hour ago, ernieb said:

I’m not sure that will work unless you can configure the charger to give a Type 2 output. It’s very confusing but I’m aware that some chargers can be configured to match the type of required output of 7.4kw.

A Type 2 plug / socket carries each of the three phases on a separate pin - there are three live pins. If you have only a single phase supply then only one of the pins will be live.

The RAV PHEV has a single phase charger built in - I believe ... please correct me if I've got that wrong - so it will 'look for' a supply on a single pin only (the others won't be connected to anything). So, the 11kW three phase charger will work perfectly well and safely, but will deliver only 16A / 3.6kW ...

... which should happily charger a 18.1kWh PHEV in around 5 hours so "happy days". 🙂

[ernieb]

Definitely single phase it sounds like it may well work from your description Philip even if the 3 phase supply would be somewhat unbalanced. 

[LynxE]

52 minutes ago, philip42h said:

The RAV PHEV has a single phase charger built in - I believe ... please correct me if I've got that wrong - so it will 'look for' a supply on a single pin only (the others won't be connected to anything). So, the 11kW three phase charger will work perfectly well and safely, but will deliver only 16A / 3.6kW ...

Yes, I think the same way. A bit sad that having 11 kW charger I am only able to use a third of it 🙂 Not a big deal though, as I charge overnight. My household has a main circuit breaker 32A a phase - that's the maximum I can get from my network, but I can't overload it as in winter my heat pump consumes up to 6 kW.

[Lawnmowerman]

43 minutes ago, LynxE said:

Yes, I think the same way. A bit sad that having 11 kW charger I am only able to use a third of it 🙂 Not a big deal though, as I charge overnight. My household has a main circuit breaker 32A a phase - that's the maximum I can get from my network, but I can't overload it as in winter my heat pump consumes up to 6 kW.

On the bright side is it better for health/longevity of the Battery to slow charge rather than fast?

[IanML]

46 minutes ago, Lawnmowerman said:

On the bright side is it better for health/longevity of the battery to slow charge rather than fast?

It is generally reckoned that the sweet spot is 16 or 32A. so that seems good.

Assuming your heat pump could draw 8.3A per phase, you would not want your EVSE to draw more much than 16A in a phase, so even if you had a 32A single phase charger, you probably would not get any additional benefit from it.

[LynxE]

29 minutes ago, IanML said:

Assuming your heat pump could draw 8.3A per phase, you would not want your EVSE to draw more much than 16A in a phase, so even if you had a 32A single phase charger, you probably would not get any additional benefit from it.

Sure, my thoughts above were about that. Just wondering why Toyota didn't include 3 phase onboard charger as most of EV does. Again, not a big deal, just having less time for charging it's easier to catch a low-fare window for overnight charging 🙂

[ernieb]

It’s not an EV but a PHEV so what they’ve included is probably appropriate as the Battery is only 18.1kW. With the supplied Type 2 cable and a 7kW charger the Battery can be charged in around 2.5 hours. They do supply two cables, the ‘fast’ charger cable and the ‘granny’ cable which is better than many seem to do.

The car is not designed to handle a 3 phase supply.

[LynxE]

5 minutes ago, ernieb said:

It’s not an EV but a PHEV so what they’ve included is probably appropriate as the battery is only 18.1kW. With the supplied Type 2 cable and a 7kW charger the battery can be charged in around 2.5 hours.

Yes, I understand, and maybe that makes sense if households have a main circuit breaker 45 A a phase at least. I don't know if it's common in the UK or Germany or somewhere else, but in Estonia, that's rather an exception, as even 3 phase with 32A/phase is above the average household power supply.

[ernieb]

Most of the UK is on single phase supplies so 240v at 48A to 100A depending where you live and how old your home might be. My supply is 60A.  Newer homes are built with 3 phase and EV chargers in mind but it’s not yet that common. 

[LynxE]

Aah, got it. So in the case of RAV4 PHEV it's an advantage to have a powerful single-phase power supply 🙂 Thank you!

[ernieb]

The maximum the PHEV will take is the 7kW Type 2 charger, but considering it’s going to charge the traction Battery in approx 2.5 hours that’s probably fine. The US charger is only a 3.5kW approx. It’s worth saying again that the PHEV reserves 30% of the traction batteries 18.1kW so that it can operate as an HEV so in practice it only takes approx 12.5kW to fully charge the Battery, obviously it’s possible to deplete the Battery further but the car generally keeps it topped at 30%.  The overall time to charge is more that you might think with a 7kW charger as it charges to about 80% then tappers the charge and also the ambient and battery temperature come into play.

[nlee]

Looking at a number of current PHEVs on the market, the RAV4 is the exception rather than the rule. Most "competitor" vehicles only have an onboard charger/converter of 3.6kw. 

[ernieb]

and have an EV range a lot less not only as the spec but in real driving.

[Samuel2024]

Hi All,

 

Hoping for some help.... We have got our box (ABB Terra) installed on Monday as we collect our new toyota on Sunday. We have noticed a signficat increase in our electricity. (Increased by a £1.50 per day) and we have no vehicle connected. The charger seems to be drawing a lot of engery so we have tunred this off at the Conjuction box. Does anyone know why this might be the case or experiencing anything similar?

Many thanks,

Samuel

[IanML]

That is certainly a cause for concern.  I would call your installer back to check for a fault, either in the charger or the wiring.

[Samuel2024]

Cheers thanks Ian