First MoT shock!

[mintymiller]

Hello everyone. Took my early 2017 Auris hybrid with 33K on the clock into Halfords for its very first MoT today and was somewhat surprised when it failed on the front brakes (and a cut tyre). The remedy is complete front discs/pads replacement and  a new tyre of course. The tyre I can understand, but considering the brakes are only ever really 'on' when these cars are coming to a stop or having to brake hard (rarely required in my case), I'm really surprised by the failure there! If anyone is wondering why I didn't take it to Toyota for its MoT, no reason other than I left it a bit late and it wasn't convenient! Needless to say, my car's 1st MoT has been far more expensive than I ever expected! The car's been serviced by Toyota throughout butI've only had it since March of this year.

[Bernard Foy]

3 minutes ago, mintymiller said:

Hello everyone. Took my early 2017 Auris hybrid with 33K on the clock into Halfords for its very first MoT today and was somewhat surprised when it failed on the front brakes (and a cut tyre). The remedy is complete front discs/pads replacement and  a new tyre of course. The tyre I can understand, but considering the brakes are only ever really 'on' when these cars are coming to a stop or having to brake hard (rarely required in my case), I'm really surprised by the failure there! If anyone is wondering why I didn't take it to Toyota for its MoT, no reason other than I left it a bit late and it wasn't convenient! Needless to say, my car's 1st MoT has been far more expensive than I ever expected! The car's been serviced by Toyota throughout butI've only had it since March of this year.

My experience with Halfords has not been a good one, with the result that I wouldn’t let them oil a the wheel on my barrow.

[mintymiller]

Hi Bernard. I've had a mixed experience with them over the years but I took a chance on this occasion! MoT is due on the 2nd so they sort have me by the S&Cs! I'm just surprised by the main  reason for the failure! I'll get the old discs off them for inspection. 

[flash22]

33k on its first set of discs is about right, the pads were prob ok, but the disks were lipped, change the disk you always do the pads

I have seen 3 year old cars with a page or more of fails

[mintymiller]

4 minutes ago, Bernard Foy said:

My experience with Halfords has not been a good one, with the result that I wouldn’t let them oil a the wheel on my barrow.

It must be so but hybrids require much less friction braking than non-hybrids.

2 minutes ago, flash22 said:

33k on its first set of discs is about right, the pads were prob ok, but the disks were lipped, change the disk you always do the pads

I have seen 3 year old cars with a page or more of fails

[flash22]

Organic compounds in the pads are very hard and eat into the discs, also the disc hardness is only 1-1.5mm thick once that wears, you're into the softer metal

[Stopeter44]

10 minutes ago, flash22 said:

33k on its first set of discs is about right, the pads were prob ok, but the disks were lipped, change the disk you always do the pads

I have seen 3 year old cars with a page or more of fails

Around here, the dealer was saying 125k km and even 200k km on a Prius. So why only 35k Miles , unless you've already answered the question ? 

[mintymiller]

1 minute ago, Stopeter44 said:

Around here, the dealer was saying 125k km and even 200k km on a Prius. So why only 35k Miles , unless you've already answered the question ? 

I just wonder if Toyota would have failed it for this reason!

[Red_Corolla]

Halfords are notorious for upselling. I'd suspect there's a strong possibility that your brakes are fine. Specifically what did they say was wrong? Excessive wear? Excessive corrosion? Both are easy to see for yourself, especially with alloy wheels.

Go to a local independent garage that does lots of MOT work. My local place is still charging £25 and, at that price, they get continuous MOT work all day long, no need to upsell. I've always had a fair test from them, only get failures when they are warranted.

[TonyHSD]

Hi, 

can you make a pictures of the discs and tyre cut to share so we can evaluate correctly and give you our best advice because before we can see exact condition of the parts that is not possible or may not be correct., but even so visit to another garage can do it . Once I had failed a car through mot, just walked away and stopped next garage and the car passed with flying colours as how should be the first time. Some mechanics and garages especially the one like Halfords, Kwik fit, national are really inexperienced, uneducated and nasty people who are only there to earn their living or chasing extra money, or just nasty men who take it personally and if they have a bad day their customers pays for it. 👍

[yossarian247]

1 hour ago, mintymiller said:

Hello everyone. Took my early 2017 Auris hybrid with 33K on the clock into Halfords for its very first MoT today and was somewhat surprised when it failed on the front brakes (and a cut tyre). The remedy is complete front discs/pads replacement and  a new tyre of course. The tyre I can understand, but considering the brakes are only ever really 'on' when these cars are coming to a stop or having to brake hard (rarely required in my case), I'm really surprised by the failure there! If anyone is wondering why I didn't take it to Toyota for its MoT, no reason other than I left it a bit late and it wasn't convenient! Needless to say, my car's 1st MoT has been far more expensive than I ever expected! The car's been serviced by Toyota throughout butI've only had it since March of this year.

When you say 'failed on the front brakes' what did it actually fail on, as in what aspect of the brakes? Performance? Brakes have to be in a pretty terrible state to actually fail an MOT so I tend to be suspicious when an otherwise well-maintained car fails on them. 

[mintymiller]

5 minutes ago, yossarian247 said:

When you say 'failed on the front brakes' what did it actually fail on, as in what aspect of the brakes? Performance? Brakes have to be in a pretty terrible state to actually to fail an MOT so I tend to be suspicious when an otheriwse well-maintained car fails on them. 

Warp of some kind, maybe just on one side but I'd always change both sides regardless. I'll get the old ones off them when I collect the car and post pictures on here. Same with the tyre.

[yossarian247]

8 minutes ago, mintymiller said:

Warp of some kind, maybe just on one side but I'd always change both sides regardless. I'll get the old ones off them when I collect the car and post pictures on here. Same with the tyre.

https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history

If you search on the above site with your reg number it will tell you the exact results of the MOT test before you even get the car back. Warped discs are not AFAIK a reason in themselves for failure, but would be if they were causing seriously imbalanced brake performance across an axle.

[mintymiller]

1 minute ago, yossarian247 said:

https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history

If you search on the above site with your reg number it will tell you the exact results of the MOT test before you even get the car back. Warped discs are not AFAIK a reason in themselves for failure, but would be if they were causing seriously imbalanced brake performance across an axle.

Repair immediately (major defects):

• Offside Front Tyre has a cut in excess of the requirements deep enough to reach the ply or cords (5.2.3 (d) (i))
• Offside Front Service brake excessively fluctuating (1.2.1 (e))

Monitor and repair if necessary (advisories):

• Nearside Rear Tyre slightly damaged/cracking or perishing (5.2.3 (d) (ii))
• Nearside Front Service brake fluctuating, but not excessively (1.2.1 (e))

 What are defects and advisories?

[yossarian247]

Defects are MOT fails, whereas advisories are just items which the tester considers may need attention in the future but are not severe enough at the time of the test to actually fail the car on. 

The above fail seems to suggest that the front discs were warped badly enough to cause the brake performance to fluctuate. Will be interesting to see what the offending discs actually look like though..

[mintymiller]

2 minutes ago, yossarian247 said:

Defects are MOT fails, whereas advisories are just items which the tester considers may need attention in the future but are not severe enough at the time of the test to actually fail the car on. 

The above fail seems to suggest that the OSF disc was warped badly enough to cause the brake performance to fluctuate. Will be interesting to see what the offending disc actually looks like though..

I'll inspect and post pictures.

[Red_Corolla]

Braking fluctuations should be felt through the pedal. They don't necessarily mean warping. Warping is when the disc is no longer flat, usually caused by uneven cooling (sitting with your foot on the brake after a hard stop). In that case, the discs have to be replaced.

The other cause of fluctuation is contamination or spot corrosion, which is something I have first hand experience with on motorcycles when you wash them and put them away without riding afterwards. The area behind the pad stays wet and  you end up with a difference in friction around the circumference of the disc. In this case, the uneven friction can often be resolved by simply giving the vehicle a damn good thrashing, with several hard stops from high speed. A bypass road with lots of roundabouts and national speed limit is ideal for this particular tuning procedure. If it's downhill, even better! 

[Red_Corolla]

2 minutes ago, Red_Corolla said:

Braking fluctuations should be felt through the pedal. They don't necessarily mean warping. Warping is when the disc is no longer flat, usually caused by uneven cooling (sitting with your foot on the brake after a hard stop). In that case, the discs have to be replaced. Confirming warp can only be done with a DTI, which I doubt your typical Halfords employee knows how to use or even has access to.

The other cause of fluctuation is contamination or spot corrosion, which is something I have first hand experience with on motorcycles when you wash them and put them away without riding afterwards. The area behind the pad stays wet and  you end up with a difference in friction around the circumference of the disc. In this case, the pulsation from uneven friction can often be resolved by simply giving the vehicle a damn good thrashing, with several hard stops from high speed. A bypass road with lots of roundabouts and national speed limit is ideal for this particular tuning procedure. If it's downhill, even better! 

 

[Steven83]

I’m shocked…. That people use Halfords.

it’s the equivalent of booking with ryanair and then being surprised you have to pay to choose your seat or have checked in luggage. 

[mintymiller]

Failed on the OS, which was excessively fluctuating (1.2.1(e)) apparently and I think is the set on top with the NS beneath (advisory to change). They both look the same to me!

 

[mintymiller]

32 minutes ago, Steven83 said:

I’m shocked…. That people use Halfords.

it’s the equivalent of booking with ryanair and then being surprised you have to pay to choose your seat or have checked in luggage. 

My faultt! Because I left it so late, my choice of MoT centre was very limited. 

[flash22]

Scoring, a bit of pad transfer and checking, what's the over all thickness ?

[mintymiller]

7 minutes ago, flash22 said:

Scoring, a bit of pad transfer and checking, what's the over all thickness ?

I'll check later and post back. What's 'checking'?

[flash22]

Have a look here

https://cvwmagazine.co.uk/brake-discs-a-troubleshooting-guide/

[TonyHSD]

These discs can be salvaged easily, all you need is a wire brush preferably machine rotary one with soft metal wire, wood sandpaper 120 grid and brake cleaner spray. With the discs off the hub clean with spray all the grease from both sides of the disc and the hub, wipe with cloth and start cleaning with wire brush, then finish the friction surfaces with sandpaper although not necessarily, clean again with spray and dry fit back on the hubs, most important part of the job is to fit all parts without any grease anywhere! Clean the pads , the metal shims and the metal brackets they seat on, again NO grease, dry fit them and take out slider pins, clean them from old grease, if any rust on them clean with wire cloth green colour, then apply slight film of silicone grease on them and fit back in, make sure you take the air out of the rubber boots and when pushed pins in they should stay in and not trying to poke out. Now clean the inner side of the wheel at all mounting surfaces and dry fit without any grease to the hub. Torque to 102 Nm cross pattern all 5 nuts with the wheels on the ground. Job done. 👍

There are 2 reasons you had all that issues with the brakes:

1. lack of use and missed maintenance, every two years hybrids needs brake cleaning and lubricating procedure.

2. The cooper grease everywhere, this is biggest enemy to all brake components! 
👍