New vehicle oil change

[Less]

New RAV4 and recommended first oil change at 10000 miles.  Never waited that long on any prior vehicle!   Is it OK or should I do first oil change earlier?

[ernieb]

Interesting, it’s a very long time since I did an oil change anything earlier than 12K or 1 year, the Yeti I did every 18k or 2 years with the long life oil. I’d say if Toyota recommend 10K or 1 year that’s what I’d go for, with the warranty and the extended warranty I think you’re pretty well covered.

[Lawnmowerman]

Manufacturers generally set service requirements to please fleet managers.

Having said that those vehicles typically are under greater stress than most privately owned vehicles. All the PCP's etc. have dramatically reshaped how people view their car ownership and if they stick with changing their cars at the end of the contract (which is what the manufacturers want) then there should be no ill-effects.

As the economy changes (higher costs) I can see a sharp reset in the tendency to change cars so frequently.

However, if you are a long-termer for ownership then perhaps the service schedules may fall short for you.

Toyota are not immune - hence no stipulation for DPF replacement and the white smoke issue being experienced by d4d owners. Whether that would help is a moot point though.

[Red_Corolla]

I did mine just to be at peace with myself. It cost me little over £50 for OEM oil & filter and was dead simple on my Corolla. Probably a worthless exercise in terms of the benefits it will bring, but I'm still happy that I did it.

I find it suspicious that motorcycle engines still have a running in service while cars supposedly don't need them. Surely both types of engine are built to similar tolerances using the same manufacturing techniques? I'm having a new BMW motorcycle next year, which requires a running in oil service at 600 miles. The diesel BMW car I had a few years earlier didn't require any service until 20k miles.

[Stivino]

If it's good enough for Toyota, it's good enough for me. 

[ernieb]

A lot of motorbike engines run at much higher rpm than cars.

[Cyker]

I think Motorcycles tend to run higher RPMs so that might be why. I've noticed since Toyotas started using 0w-something oils the running in period hasn't really been such a big thing; It might be the tolerances are so tiny now that the testing they do at the factory is enough to run them in!!

(I hope so - running in usually requires a wide range of RPMs, but my hybrid spends almost all of its time at 0rpm or ~2000rpm except when I give it the beans!  )

[ernieb]

It’s noticeable when the ICE kicks in after depleting the traction Battery as even travelling in low speed traffic the engine is running at 2K rpm. I know why it does that but it still seems strange sometimes. Mind you the sound proofing on the PHEV is so good you need to tune your ear to near it’s low grumble.

[Cyker]

My theory is that 2000rpm is where the engine is at the 41% efficiency point Toyota are proud of mentioning, that's the only reason I can think for it to be so obsessed with being at that RPM!  

It's less pleasant in the Mk4 tho' - I doesn't seem to have much sound insulation and that 3-cylinder rumble and vibration can get a bit obnoxious when creeping in traffic at 5mph, and esp. when stationary!

 

[Lawnmowerman]

2 hours ago, Stivino said:

If it's good enough for Toyota, it's good enough for me. 

Question everything!

[Red_Corolla]

3 hours ago, ernieb said:

A lot of motorbike engines run at much higher rpm than cars.

The stress is higher, for sure. That might explain why cars can get away without doing it, but doesn't explain why there's no benefit at all.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Back in the 80's/early 90's, when we had new Nissans, the reason for them using a 600 mile oil change was because the factory fill oil was a much lighter oil than the usual requirement, and needed to be replaced. This stopped around 1993, and the subsequent Sunny and Primera oil changes were at the normal service intervals.

[ernieb]

@Cyker, the 2K is as you say the peak efficiency for the Atkinson cycle Toyota ICE, it’s impressive and as you say try’s at every occasion to get back to that rpm. Which is of course exactly what we want to achieve the best efficiency.

[Roy124]

11 hours ago, Cyker said:

My theory is that 2000rpm is where the engine is at the 41% efficiency point Toyota are proud of mentioning, that's the only reason I can think for it to be so obsessed with being at that RPM! 

 

Thank you for confirming my memory of a performance lecture over 60 years ago.  The other power point was 60% which I guess would equate to 3,000 RPM. 

[Catlover]

10 hours ago, Lawnmowerman said:

Question everything!

I am questiioning why  i should question everything.

"When I was a young lad", engineering tolerences wouldnt match todays standards in general engineering. When I was a lad, oils were not as advanced as they are now. Certainly many principles of engineering when I was a lad are still applicable today and will be, no doubt, in the future, but, many things have also moved forward, but sometimes my mind has not moved as fast.

We got a new washing machine delivered last Tuesday, ironic because our electric went down 9pm Friday and came back 7pm last night. The controls are "touch gently".... and thats all you have to do "touch gently". One nickname I call my wife is "heavy handed AAnnie" (even though her name is Christine). She is firing up the washing machine this morning, not fully knowing what butons to touch gently so I referred her to the manual (always a good place to stsrt) and I am having to remind her to "touch gently" and I am repeating it in sentences (repitition for emphasis). She has found it difficult to adjust to  all the modern appliances, smartphones/tablets etc. Technology has moved on, motor engineering has moved on, oils have moved on, I go with Mr Toyota. There are Toyotas on  the road in the uk with over 200k miles, go with it.

 

[Stopeter44]

1 hour ago, Catlover said:

She has found it difficult to adjust to  all the modern appliances, smartphones/tablets etc. Technology has moved on, motor engineering has moved on, oils have moved on, I go with Mr Toyota. There are Toyotas on  the road in the uk with over 200k miles, go with it.

Many people struggle with technological advances, and many struggle with anything that's outside of their "up until now" life experience. A family member just bought a new car, could have had it in hybrid, could have had it in automatic, but bought a manual transmission because was afraid that they would be "overwhelmed" by the technology.

[Mooly]

My 1.33 Auris is the first car I've NOT either changed the oil myself at 1000 miles or had it done by a dealer. It is also the first car I've had where the dealer has actually told me when asked what oil was used during services and during those first important years it was NOT the recommended viscosity they were using. This was also the first car I've had where it was impressed on me during the initial sale and subsequently afterwards that ONLY the specified oil must be used. So why was that not done?

This is also the first car I've owned that has developed a possibly terminal engine problem as the oil consumption is now at pretty serious levels having had well over 8 litres added since March. 

[Yugguy1970]

There was a school of thought to change oil on a new engine at around 2 or 3k, as the filter could be full of metal swarf from the running in.  Not sure if that still applies with modern engineering and tolerances.

[Red_Corolla]

13 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Back in the 80's/early 90's, when we had new Nissans, the reason for them using a 600 mile oil change was because the factory fill oil was a much lighter oil than the usual requirement, and needed to be replaced. This stopped around 1993, and the subsequent Sunny and Primera oil changes were at the normal service intervals.

I think that's exactly what they're still doing with motorcycle engines and perhaps other performance biased vehicles. They use a less effective oil as initial fill to promote a more thorough bedding on for optimal performance and life, then swap out for the fully synthetic good stuff as soon as that period is over. But, for run of the mill engines, the concept was abandoned long ago, as you say. Oil changes aside, I think that observing the manufactures guidelines for running in is most important and the biggest influence on future performance & oil consumption. But, again, many argue otherwise.

[Parts-King]

Oils back in the day were very crude, back in the 70's and 80's a standard 20/50 oil was good enough for everything near enough, these days we have very efficient engine oils, new models such as new Yaris run on 0W 8, it's like water, but helps with cooling and better MPG. The new fill oil is perfectly suitable until first service at 10K, no need to change it, but some "Old school" feel it's better to change, all personal choice but not really needed 

[Lawnmowerman]

7 hours ago, Catlover said:

I am questiioning why  i should question everything.

"When I was a young lad", engineering tolerences wouldnt match todays standards in general engineering. When I was a lad, oils were not as advanced as they are now. Certainly many principles of engineering when I was a lad are still applicable today and will be, no doubt, in the future, but, many things have also moved forward, but sometimes my mind has not moved as fast.

We got a new washing machine delivered last Tuesday, ironic because our electric went down 9pm Friday and came back 7pm last night. The controls are "touch gently".... and thats all you have to do "touch gently". One nickname I call my wife is "heavy handed AAnnie" (even though her name is Christine). She is firing up the washing machine this morning, not fully knowing what butons to touch gently so I referred her to the manual (always a good place to stsrt) and I am having to remind her to "touch gently" and I am repeating it in sentences (repitition for emphasis). She has found it difficult to adjust to  all the modern appliances, smartphones/tablets etc. Technology has moved on, motor engineering has moved on, oils have moved on, I go with Mr Toyota. There are Toyotas on  the road in the uk with over 200k miles, go with it.

 

Hi Joe, of course you are right to mention the advances over the years. What we don't know is the service regime the 200k milers have adopted - following manufacturer's schedules or not. When they were new they may have had a more frequent oil change regime than now.

With Toyota's reputation for reliability I would not have expected my 4.4 to need rear pads & discs at 2 years / 20k miles (corrosion on discs - not wear). Nor having failed trailing arm bushes at the same time. So as with other manufacturers, Toyota make compromises in material specification to suit their objectives. Not too many otherwise they wouldn't have the enviable reputation they have.

So. I am pleased that you are comfortable to 'go with it' but personally I will still question everything. 🙂

[Catlover]

6 hours ago, Parts-King said:

Oils back in the day were very crude, back in the 70's and 80's a standard 20/50 oil was good enough for everything near enough, these days we have very efficient engine oils, new models such as new Yaris run on 0W 8, it's like water, but helps with cooling and better MPG. The new fill oil is perfectly suitable until first service at 10K, no need to change it, but some "Old school" feel it's better to change, all personal choice but not really needed 

Nice to see you posting again. I hope everything OK.

[Mikw]

11 hours ago, Mooly said:

My 1.33 Auris is the first car I've NOT either changed the oil myself at 1000 miles or had it done by a dealer. It is also the first car I've had where the dealer has actually told me when asked what oil was used during services and during those first important years it was NOT the recommended viscosity they were using. This was also the first car I've had where it was impressed on me during the initial sale and subsequently afterwards that ONLY the specified oil must be used. So why was that not done?

This is also the first car I've owned that has developed a possibly terminal engine problem as the oil consumption is now at pretty serious levels having had well over 8 litres added since March. 

So they used the wrong oil when they serviced it? That's awful. I would think you might have a case against them for doing that. I must admit, it's one of my fears. You're stuck with the main dealer on a new car for a few years, and they skimp on the oil it's never good for the long term health of the engine.

[Mikw]

On 11/29/2021 at 9:15 PM, Cyker said:

My theory is that 2000rpm is where the engine is at the 41% efficiency point Toyota are proud of mentioning, that's the only reason I can think for it to be so obsessed with being at that RPM!  

It's less pleasant in the Mk4 tho' - I doesn't seem to have much sound insulation and that 3-cylinder rumble and vibration can get a bit obnoxious when creeping in traffic at 5mph, and esp. when stationary!

 

Given the electronic dials on the Mk4, how can we tell what 2000 rpm is?

[Mikw]

On 11/29/2021 at 8:08 PM, Stivino said:

If it's good enough for Toyota, it's good enough for me. 

Indeed. Well, with the price of 0W-8 oil for the new Yaris, i have no choice to stick to the Toyota service schedule really. Any more frequent changes and i'd lose the benefits of the fuel saved by the Hybird system.I've been quoted £190 for my first service, i reckon half of that will be the cost of the oil.