Toyota BZ4X Toyota Europe Announcement

[Malop]

Link to full article below, but for me the most exciting bit “And for maximum convenience, the all new Advanced Park, which uses four Panoramic View Monitor cameras and 12 ultrasonic sensors around the car, can even enter and exit the parking spot without the driver being in the driver’s seat – fully remotely!”

 

https://newsroom.toyota.eu/european-premiere-of-the-all-new-toyota-bz4x/

[TonyHSD]

Great news, might be start saving for one of these if can do 200miles daily and they really guarantee the Battery to last 😄👌🔋 Looks like a great deal but let see what the price will be. 👍

[ernieb]

I like the idea of the solar panelled roof. I do wonder just how much all the ‘extras’ are going to cost? 

[flash22]

It will be in the mid to high £30K range if not more, think high end rav4

[TonyHSD]

Which means around £40k 🤭

[flash22]

Steer-by-wire system

The bZ4X is the first production Toyota to offer a steer-by-wire system

That will be a no for me then, I'm a bit old-fashioned, i like things mechanically attached

[ernieb]

I think you might get an actual 200 miles from the 2WD but not sure that would be on offer for the AWD.  Start adding solar roof panels and other add ons and things will derate pretty quickly.  I think it will be the mark 2 before the additional range would be available with solid state batteries. 

[AndyRC]

Interesting paragraph right at the end , sounds like Toyota are following Volvo Care Subscription with this idea. Will be interesting to see what the numbers look like. 

New Vehicle Leasing Programme

Toyota is introducing its all-new BEV with a completely new approach to vehicle purchasing and the customer’s ownership experience.

Its target is for a majority of new European sales to be via a new all-inclusive leasing contract, covering the vehicle, maintenance, wall box charger provision and access to connected services, including one of Europe’s largest vehicle charging networks. If customers wish, Toyota insurance can also be included, along with roadside assistance and vehicle accessories.

Toyota will work with its retailers to ensure customers receive the best solution for their mobility requirements, with products that take into account the different levels of market maturity for BEVs across Europe.

[Cyker]

On 12/2/2021 at 3:24 PM, Malop said:

Link to full article below, but for me the most exciting bit “And for maximum convenience, the all new Advanced Park, which uses four Panoramic View Monitor cameras and 12 ultrasonic sensors around the car, can even enter and exit the parking spot without the driver being in the driver’s seat – fully remotely!”

https://newsroom.toyota.eu/european-premiere-of-the-all-new-toyota-bz4x/

When the Mk4 Yaris was announced I was quite excited as that was a listed feature too! But... it turns out only on the JDM one!  

It's just too big and not enough range for my use case - I think it will be a long long time before a BEV that can rival the Mk4 Yaris will come out... Given the Hyundai Kona has crested 40k I can see this being even more by the time it comes out...!

On 12/2/2021 at 3:49 PM, flash22 said:

Steer-by-wire system

The bZ4X is the first production Toyota to offer a steer-by-wire system

That will be a no for me then, I'm a bit old-fashioned, i like things mechanically attached

Yeah I'm not seeing the benefits - I'm not so bothered about throttle-by-wire, but I'm already a bit uneasy with brake-by-wire and that at least has a backup failsafe system, but with steer-by-wire what if the electrics cut out?? And what if you steer while the car is off??

[HSDish]

As I understand and what I´ve read in Swedish car mags the bZ4x will have a quite small (452 L) boot space.

Smaller than IONIQ 5 , KIA Ev 6 and VW ID4.

If that´s the case the bZ4x wont fill our needs of carry/loading our daughters wheelchair (as our Prius+ does for now)

[AndyRC]

I believe legislation will need to be changed to allow the use of Steer by Wire in European countries as a mechanical connection is currently required. The Steer by Wire will be interesting to try and I’ve an open mind to it. The only way to see if it suits is to give it a go. Unfortunately it may be quite a few years  before the option is available, the upside is we won’t be early adopters and Toyota will have plenty of information. 

[Harters]

I'm interested to see how visible the display is ahead of the driver.  I can see it would work perfectly with the 'yoke' steering wheel, but not sure if I am going to have to have the steering wheel in my lap to enable me to see over it as they say is the way to view the dials.  I am pretty long in the body, so hopefully I will be ok.

I think they could have gone down the Peugeot route (and Allegro - everyone laughed) and flattened the top and bottom of the steering wheel to enable a better view.  Maybe they didn't want to alienate people by going down that route.

 

[TonyHSD]

Had a Peugeot for few weeks back in 2015 and tbh I never managed to get the steering wheel at right position to allow me a clear view of the instrument cluster and I think this might be the case with bz4x too. One thing I personally don’t like in the car is exactly that, dashboard design with steering position and instruments.,  for the drive by wire have to try it first but not sure about it either. Waiting for the next gen Prius more than any other type of car from any manufacturer. 👌

[Parts-King]

A lot of people worry about new technology, I understand that. Steer by wire has been used for a long time on fork lifts, Infinnity have had it on a number of models, I think BMW and Audi are introducing it. There are a lot of advantages, no vibrations from the road for one. Nobody thinks twice about jumping on board the latest Airbus or whatever, and they have been fly by wire for a very long time

[robo1]

But the Airbus A320 does have a mechanical back-up system for its pitch trim and its rudder. Wonder what back up system the BZ4X will have?

[Cyker]

It's a feedback thing too - I've noticed with the brake-by-wire I get far less feedback than in previous hydraulic braked vehicles, e.g. the differences in firmness when the brakes are cold vs hot, and the vibration if the ABS has triggered, and I don't like that at all...!

The steering in the Mk2 and Mk4 Yaris already give far less feel than the Mk1 did - In the Mk1 you could feel what sort of surface you were on from the vibrations and the changes in steering resistance - I'm sure that has saved me a few times by giving me extra warning when turning over a slippery surface, but the E-PAS in the Mk2 and Mk4 filter a lot of that out - I could be driving on ice or snow and not feel the difference! I can only imagine steer by wire will give even less feedback...

The problem with the steer-by-wire is they've said it's to make more room, which means they likely won't have a mechanical backup as that would negate that space-saving. Someone compared it to an aeroplane - Well I hope it will have triple redundancy and backup power like an aeroplane FBW system has too!! But then this will add considerably more weight to the system...

Honestly to me this feels like it's in the same category as: smart motorways - It sounds like a good idea, but in reality it doesn't improve anything and makes other things more dangerous...

 

[Malop]

Spoke to my local dealer last night and apparently the financing will be via Kinto who are funded by Toyota. They don’t have much detail on their website just yet  

https://www.kinto-mobility.co.uk/

 

 

[Parts-King]

14 hours ago, robo1 said:

But the Airbus A320 does have a mechanical back-up system for its pitch trim and its rudder. Wonder what back up system the BZ4X will have?

Didn't do the Boeing Max much good did it..................

Yes all the new sharing/finance options will be via Kinto 

[HSDish]

Unfortunately I think Toyota are a bit late with their all electrical bZ ( or plug in for more models) investment.

There are several other brands that already offering a quite wide range of EVs amd PHEVs.

But... I think that when Toyota finaly can deliver their bZ EVs in late 2022-25 they will be god quality , nice cars

but (again) a bit late

I´m quite tempted to swap/ trade in our Prius + 2017 and Prius PHV 2018 for an IONIQ 5 or Skoda Enyaq ( or possibly swap/trade in our PHV for a used Kia Soul) right now , while waiting for a suitable Toyota EV in about two-four years from now

[AndyRC]

16 hours ago, HSDish said:

Unfortunately I think Toyota are a bit late with their all electrical bZ ( or plug in for more models) investment.

There are several other brands that already offering a quite wide range of EVs amd PHEVs.

But... I think that when Toyota finaly can deliver their bZ EVs in late 2022-25 they will be god quality , nice cars

but (again) a bit late

I´m quite tempted to swap/ trade in our Prius + 2017 and Prius PHV 2018 for an IONIQ 5 or Skoda Enyaq ( or possibly swap/trade in our PHV for a used Kia Soul) right now , while waiting for a suitable Toyota EV in about two-four years from now

I can see why Toyota were “late to the party” with 20 years of investment in hybrid technology and making very economical ICE cars., plus investment in hydrogen technology.  To be fair I only really see Tesla , Nissan (leaf) and BMW (i3 )as early to the party. Most other major German manufacturers have jumped in due to Dieselgate. In 10 years time Toyota May well be a the global leader in BEV and hopefully their first BEV is a very good one.  

[ernieb]

Toyota have trditionally been conservative in the design changes, incremental rather than revolutionary. The policy has overall served them well, long lived reliable cars that perform well against the published specs, I don’t see that changing much. It’s very much a case of WYSIWYG, “what you see is what you get”.

[duncerduncs]

I've never understood where this "late to the party" comes from!!  Global BEV sales are only at 7.2% and Toyota are likely to sell more Corolla's worldwide this year, than Tesla have built with all 4 models combined!

Sometimes it's forgotten that the rush to BEV or PHEV for other companies was based around the need to avoid billion Euro fines, not because they cared more for the environment!!

The most interesting aspect of the announcement for me was the formation of an 'E3' platform  (e-TNGA + TNGA-C).  This will allow for Toyota to build BEV's in the UK and Europe, a good thing for those workers and a good thing for us as prices will be lower!

[AndyRC]

13 minutes ago, duncerduncs said:

I've never understood where this "late to the party" comes from!!  Global BEV sales are only at 7.2% and Toyota are likely to sell more Corolla's worldwide this year, than Tesla have built with all 4 models combined!

Sometimes it's forgotten that the rush to BEV or PHEV for other companies was based around the need to avoid billion Euro fines, not because they cared more for the environment!!

The most interesting aspect of the announcement for me was the formation of an 'E3' platform  (e-TNGA + TNGA-C).  This will allow for Toyota to build BEV's in the UK and Europe, a good thing for those workers and a good thing for us as prices will be lower!

I think it’s fair to say “the BEV party” has only just started and a lot of customers are still undecided if they want to go.   What is clear is the choice of BEV will continue to increase rapidly over the next few years. 

[Harters]

This will be my second EV purchase, the first being a Renault Zoe in 2015.  Great fun, but woeful range in winter (virtually halved) and cheap quality interior, but much improved now.

I think Battery technology has improved a lot since then and from what I have read, Toyota's range will not be so severely reduced in the winter.  Hopefully the heat pump will be better than the one in the Zoe too 😀

I think I was pretty early to the 'party' back then 🤣

[ernieb]

10 minutes ago, Harters said:

This will be my second EV purchase, the first being a Renault Zoe in 2015.  Great fun, but woeful range in winter (virtually halved) and cheap quality interior, but much improved now.

I think battery technology has improved a lot since then and from what I have read, Toyota's range will not be so severely reduced in the winter.  Hopefully the heat pump will be better than the one in the Zoe too 😀

I think I was pretty early to the 'party' back then 🤣

I think this is part of the Toyota marketing strategy only bring a product to the mass market that will work to the published spec.  So many of the current race to get a BEV manufacturers have issues with Battery range especially as it gets cold.