Toyota BZ4X Toyota Europe Announcement

[HSDish]

You , ernieb, ducerduncs and AndyRC are probaly right and got god points here, but I think the interest for Plug In and allelectric cars varies a lot from country to country.

Here in Sweden, where I live (as for our neigburs Norway) sales of and interset in Plug In and allelectric cars exploded the last year.

We still got quite god grants , about 70.000 sek for all electric and about 30.000 sek for PHEV and our infrastrukture for public charging are among the best in Europe, jet.

RAV 4 Plug In are top selling here and I would gladly buy one if there was a possibiliyty to get fully adjustable passanger seat.

I´ve even tried to order a RAV4 Plug In with "Brittish/Asian" (right) fully adjustable driver seat ,as passenger seat but it wasn´t possible

[ernieb]

11 minutes ago, HSDish said:

You , ernieb, ducerduncs and AndyRC are probaly right and got god points here, but I think the interest for Plug In and allelectric cars varies a lot from country to country.

Here in Sweden, where I live (as for our neigburs Norway) sales of and interset in Plug In and allelectric cars exploded the last year.

We still got quite god grants , about 70.000 sek for all electric and about 30.000 sek for PHEV and our infrastrukture for public charging are among the best in Europe, jet.

RAV 4 Plug In are top selling here and I would gladly buy one if there was a possibiliyty to get fully adjustable passanger seat.

I´ve even tried to order a RAV4 Plug In with "Brittish/Asian" (right) fully adjustable driver seat ,as passenger seat but it wasn´t possible

No grants in the UK unless it’s a pure EV and they are nothing like they used to be plus annual tax penalties if the list price is over £40k. No political statement but I can not understand why the UK government have so significantly reduced the grants and eliminated them for PHEV cars.

[Harters]

44 minutes ago, ernieb said:

No grants in the UK unless it’s a pure EV and they are nothing like they used to be plus annual tax penalties if the list price is over £40k. No political statement but I can not understand why the UK government have so significantly reduced the grants and eliminated them for PHEV cars.

When I purchased the Zoe the grant was £5,000, but now a measly £2,500 and only if under £35,000.  At least they have taken away the additional 'expensive car' VED suppliment for new cars costing more than £40,000 for years two to five on pure electric models as initially EV's were included.

[Cyker]

Definitely - That 'premium car' surcharge should never have been applied to EVs in the first place, but on top of it they set it far too low, given how quickly the price of EVs has been shooting up. They already have a huge price-penalty because of the Battery, but to get stung even more for 'trying to do the right thing' was what shot down my earlier temptation to get a Hyundai Kona EV. (Lucky I didn't too... dodged a bullet there!!)

It's like how my Mk4, despite being supposedly better for the environment, is over 4 times more expensive to tax than the horrible petrol Mk2 I had before or the 15-year old diesel I had before that - I must admit I'm still a bit resentful of that but I understand the old system was unsustainable. Still, it's still a bit of a kick in the proverbials.

The EV grant is a pittance - It's not going to persuade anyone to get an EV who couldn't already afford one. IMHO they should either put it back to how it was or get rid of it and plough the money into something useful like the NHS or schools, who are getting utterly shafted for funding right now.

Or even using it to sort out the EV charging infrastructure! It makes me laugh that the scandinavian countries are so ahead, yet on paper they are the worst places to have an EV due to the harsher winters potentially demolishing the already limited range of EVs! 

 

 

3 hours ago, ernieb said:

I think this is part of the Toyota marketing strategy only bring a product to the mass market that will work to the published spec.  So many of the current race to get a BEV manufacturers have issues with battery range especially as it gets cold. 

This is the thing about Toyota that keeps me coming back to them, even tho' their dealers are awful - Unlike the rest of the world they're still trying to resist jumping on the bandwagon of new things half-cocked, and instead patiently put more money into R&D for it until it is genuinely ready, and then keep iterating improvements on it until it's perfect.

It's why I hate those people who used to sing praises of Toyota when they first brought hybrids to market and are now slating them for not going to EV straight away (I'm looking at you Kryten!), as if they can just snap their fingers and magically conjure up an EV. They don't seem to understand that these things take time - Heck, it's taken them over 20 years to get the hybrid system to a state where it is it genuinely more efficient than any other ICE and actually worth buying.

Toyota believe, as I do, that EV technology is not ready for mass-market, so they're continuing to sink huge amounts of money into developing it until it is, rather than just rushing ahead and releasing something rushed like so many others are, and also looking into alternatives, all while withering the smug criticism of EVangelists.

I look forward to the time I can buy an EV that isn't the size of a boat that can get me to my bro's house and back with no extra stops without me melting or freezing, and also not have to worry about the Battery pack losing 20% of its charge after 3 years... or exploding while charging when it gets old!

 

[AndyRC]

I think Battery technology is where the manufacturers will be putting a huge amount of R&D to improve range , life , charge time etc. I don’t think Toyota have given up on Hydrogen technology  either. Interesting times ahead and I don’t see it as all doom and gloom. The upside is we will eventually get rid of all the cars which have had their exhaust systems gutted or replaced with something totally devoid of any noise or emissions control. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

58 minutes ago, AndyRC said:

I don’t think Toyota have given up on Hydrogen technology

Toyota to start European production of second generation fuel cell - https://media.toyota.co.uk/toyota-to-start-european-production-of-second-generation-fuel-cell-modules/

 

[Catlover]

59 minutes ago, AndyRC said:

I think battery technology is where the manufacturers will be putting a huge amount of R&D to improve range , life , charge time etc. I don’t think Toyota have given up on Hydrogen technology  either. Interesting times ahead and I don’t see it as all doom and gloom. The upside is we will eventually get rid of all the cars which have had their exhaust systems gutted or replaced with something totally devoid of any noise or emissions control. 

And now, Toyota plans to launch an all-new 5th generation, 1.8-liter Prius gasoline-hybrid in December 2022, and will add a hydrogen-powered PHEV version to its lineup in 2023. This will be the first time that Japan's largest carmaker has blended its two signature technologies, plug-in hybrids and hydrogen power.29 Aug 2021

Toyota To Launch Hydrogen-Powered Prius And Corolla In ...

 

https://www.forbes.com › sites › peterlyon › 2021/08/29

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HSDish]

Here in Sweden has allelecric and Plug In cars passed more than 50% of all new cars sales the last Year.

Think Sweden has the third highest share of electric and plug in cars in the whole world, right now.

We still got a lot of free public chargers. In our small town (about 30.000 p in town) we go about 20 free charging points and most of them are 22 kWh 3f 32A chargers.

So... as (at least I think so) the fact that for example KIA already got e-Niro, e Soul and now EV6 on the Swedish market KIA has sold about 5.000 more cars than Toyota (we are only 10.000 000 p in Sweden) this year. The year before Toyota sold 5.000 more than KIA.

Toyota used to be Swedens third most sold car (after Volvo and VW) but now KIA is third and Toyota fourth and I think its beqause of KIAs all electric cars. (even Hyundai, IONIQ sells good here and now the new IONQ5)-

VW ID4 and Skoda Enyaq are good selling competitors too

[AndyRC]

On 12/5/2021 at 3:07 PM, Cyker said:

Definitely - That 'premium car' surcharge should never have been applied to EVs in the first place, but on top of it they set it far too low, given how quickly the price of EVs has been shooting up. They already have a huge price-penalty because of the battery, but to get stung even more for 'trying to do the right thing' was what shot down my earlier temptation to get a Hyundai Kona EV. (Lucky I didn't too... dodged a bullet there!!)

It's like how my Mk4, despite being supposedly better for the environment, is over 4 times more expensive to tax than the horrible petrol Mk2 I had before or the 15-year old diesel I had before that - I must admit I'm still a bit resentful of that but I understand the old system was unsustainable. Still, it's still a bit of a kick in the proverbials.

The EV grant is a pittance - It's not going to persuade anyone to get an EV who couldn't already afford one. IMHO they should either put it back to how it was or get rid of it and plough the money into something useful like the NHS or schools, who are getting utterly shafted for funding right now.

Or even using it to sort out the EV charging infrastructure! It makes me laugh that the scandinavian countries are so ahead, yet on paper they are the worst places to have an EV due to the harsher winters potentially demolishing the already limited range of EVs! 

 

 

This is the thing about Toyota that keeps me coming back to them, even tho' their dealers are awful - Unlike the rest of the world they're still trying to resist jumping on the bandwagon of new things half-cocked, and instead patiently put more money into R&D for it until it is genuinely ready, and then keep iterating improvements on it until it's perfect.

It's why I hate those people who used to sing praises of Toyota when they first brought hybrids to market and are now slating them for not going to EV straight away (I'm looking at you Kryten!), as if they can just snap their fingers and magically conjure up an EV. They don't seem to understand that these things take time - Heck, it's taken them over 20 years to get the hybrid system to a state where it is it genuinely more efficient than any other ICE and actually worth buying.

Toyota believe, as I do, that EV technology is not ready for mass-market, so they're continuing to sink huge amounts of money into developing it until it is, rather than just rushing ahead and releasing something rushed like so many others are, and also looking into alternatives, all while withering the smug criticism of EVangelists.

I look forward to the time I can buy an EV that isn't the size of a boat that can get me to my bro's house and back with no extra stops without me melting or freezing, and also not have to worry about the battery pack losing 20% of its charge after 3 years... or exploding while charging when it gets old!

 

The “BEV party” is only just starting to pick up momentum and in reality there may well be other parties such as Hydrogen to go to (would certainly look better for HGVs). 

[HSDish]

2 hours ago, AndyRC said:

The “BEV party” is only just starting to pick up momentum and in reality there may well be other parties such as Hydrogen to go to (would certainly look better for HGVs). 

World wide it´s certainly the case

[HSDish]

Hope this won´t delay bZ4X too much

As I understand bZ4x with 11 kWh onboard charger will come Q4 2022 at the earliest.

Toyota European Newsroom says -

"From Q4 2022, a new 11 kW three-phase on-board charger will be available."

 

Think that´s an essesial feature so if I want that I probaly have to wait for at least a year from now, for delivery.

Heard from my local dealer, here in Sweden that they hope to get demo/showroom cars by mars/april