E10 Petrol and Toyota Hybrid Efficiency

[JohnJJM]

Where has my milage gone since using E10 petrol?

Toyota Touring Sport 2.0 Petrol Hybrid

Dear Toyota

During the last eight weeks I have documented a significant drop in my cars fuel efficiency. I now obtain on average about 39-45 mpg(combined driving). This is a significant difference to what I was obtaining earlier in the year. I have not changed the nature of my journeys, the terrain, motorway driving, my driving style (I am a member of the IAM and have more than a superficial knowledge of fuel-efficient driving) etc. 

During this period, I have changed over to the E10 petrol as per national directive.

I have three questions,

1.      Are you aware of any detrimental effect of E10 petrol on the efficiency of the Toyota  hybrid engine and what can be done to correct it?

2.      Have you had other Corolla Hybrid owners making the same enquiries?

3.      If you do not think it is E10 petrol related, should I book my car in for an assessment, as the present fuel usage   makes a mockery of my choosing a Toyota hybrid engine for its efficiency/economy.

 

[forkingabout]

No one from Toyota will see your post as this forum has nothing to do with Toyota UK.

Vehicle manufacturers are forced to quote the WLTP fuel consumption figures.

It's a well reported issue with E10 petrol reported by thousands upon thousands of UK motorist over multiple different vehicle manufacturers.

It's now colder so average miles per gallon decreases anyway.

The easiest way to correct it is fill the tank with E5 fuel - Tesco Momentum, Shell V Power, Esso Synergy Supreme+ etc 

At the moment the super unleaded fuel brands are staying E5 - BUT there priced higher then standard E10 unleaded.

Whichever way you look at it you have 4 choices.

1) Travel less distance using the less efficient E10 fuel & pay more using more of it.

2) Pay more using super unleaded E5 but increase your average mpg.

3) Go EV - totally unsuitable for a lot of people until Toyota game changing solid state Battery technology is available.

4) Use your current vehicle less.

 

FWIW - I'm currently getting 42.8 mpg average from a Peugeot 308 Puretech 130 hatchback, used to get around 50 mpg average but E10 / colder weather has reduced the average mpg.

 

 

[Catlover]

Hi John, welcome to Toyota Owners Club.

As Lee above says, TOC is totally independent of Toyota the car maker, or Toyota dealerships.           
If you want to contact Toyota best do it through Customer Service.  
Your problem/query is something a lot of car users (all makes) are concerned about. If you feel you need to highlife your concerns it may be better to direct your letter to your local MP or the likes.  Personally I would think it’s a waste of time, it’s job done as far as being seen to think of the environment.

[Stopeter44]

@JohnJJM If you stick around on this forum, you will see that the difference winter vs summer for hybrids is, very probably, due to the ICE running more to maintain temperature.

I’ve been running E10 for at least 6 years, it’s my normal. So you will get used to it, the rare times I’ve filled with E5 with the same octane rating, I could not honestly say mpg was better, but it may have been. OTOH, the price difference means the cost per mile is little different.

The calorific difference between E5 and E10 is in reality only about 1%. I am convinced it’s falling temperatures that make the bigger difference.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Stopeter44
Percentage

[FROSTYBALLS]

As has been said earlier and as shown on our home page, Toyota Owners Club is an independent forum. Toyota don't visit the Club, and they certainly won't post a rep!y on these pages.

Your change in consumption is probably a combination of the cold weather and E10 petrol.

May be worth checking the following from Toyota to see whether you can improve the consumption - https://mag.toyota.co.uk/hybrid-driving-tips-for-best-fuel-economy/

 

 

[TonyHSD]

If it’s me I will never fill up E10 in any gasoline direct injection car when E5 is available, my advice to anyone just think of E10 like the wrong type of fuel (diesel) like and avoid at all cost. The mpg reduction at the moment is more down to the cold weather other than petrol type but the latest does not help either. Our cars might be ok -ish to drive on E10 but in a long run this will have consequences. Ethanol imo is only cleaner to burn when you burn it directly with a flame but it’s not better for environment when burnt in ice cars, could possibly  proof even opposite, the time will tell. 👌✅🔋

[Stopeter44]

17 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

Ethanol imo is only cleaner to burn when you burn it directly with a flame but it’s not better for environment when burnt in ice cars, could possibly  proof even opposite, the time will tell. 👌✅🔋

I ran diesel, before getting the petrol turbo I run today, and E10 was around, or at least I think it was, when I. bought that car 6 years ago.

What we need is a good "why we think E10 sucks" topic, and it will be all in one place 🤣, I do here what you say, tho' and I am considering running the Yaris strictly on E5, even if I have to buy 98 octane and the 10 cents (€) per litre penalty. I expect about a 40-45% improvement in mpg, so I should come out ahead, in that respect.

[Yugguy1970]

40% improvement?  Not what we are seeing in our Yaris.  a few mpg maybe but that's all.

[Stopeter44]

I’m at 6+L/100 and many 2020/2021 Yaris are at 3,5L/100

[preperationlaunch]

The Toyota hybrids are reasonably low compression, so I'd be surprised if they didn't run on anything resembling petrol. Not that I'd try it with expensive injectors etc. They were designed to run on what the US call 'regular' gas, which is about 93 RON by our standards.

Whilst the clever cycle means the expansion ratio is >13:1, which, if the compression ratio was the same would mean we'd need 98 Octane, the compression ratio, depending where you look is only 8 or 9 to 1. That's not far off big petrol landrovers, and I've seen them run albeit badly on a tank of mostly diesel mixed in with the remaining petrol after someone put the wrong fuel in.

The real problem comes from fuel systems that weren't designed for it, and carbed vehicles that aren't set up for it. It can also pull the muck in fuel through the system and cause problems in old cars full of varnish etc. Or those with seals that aren't compatible. Ethanol is hygroscopic too, it pulls water from the air. This is much more of an issue in older cars where tanks aren't sealed.

[Cyker]

You're getting 39-45 now?  What were you getting before? TBH that seems reasonable for the 2.0 estate in winter - The 2.0 is known to be less efficient than the 1.8 as it's set up for a more sporty responsive feel than efficiency, and was mainly targeted at people who were complaining the previous gen 1.8 was too slow and revvy.

If mpg is your main concern, maybe opting for the 1.8 hatch would have been better than the known-thirstier 2.0 estate. Or better yet, should have gotten a Yaris Mk4 - Mine is absolutely caning every other car I've ever been in for real world mpg!  

How're you driving it? I find with mine, more in the winter at least, if I drive it too gently it actually gets worse mpg because the engine can't get up to, and stay at, operating temperature. It's a lot like my old diesel in that regard - That D4D much preferred being worked hard! When it was nice and hot it felt like you could brush the accelerator and it would shift, but when it was cold it felt like it was pushing through treacle.

The Mk4 is good at hiding that feedback through its trick drivetrain, but by being a bit more aggressive with the accelerator on my journey to and from work I've gotten back from 69.1mpg to 74.8mpg so far! (The trick seems to be to go as far up the ECO band as you can while accelerating, without crossing into the Power band - The car will load up at 2000rpm and hit maximum ICE efficiency, driving the car and charging the Battery. The car gets a lot thirstier if you stay in the Power band too much; I think because the revs quickly creep up and also it may be switching to Otto-cycle mode which drops the efficiency a lot!)

 

[Red_Corolla]

I have very limited ownership experience, but I would echo other opinions that the 2.0 model cannot rival the 1.8 for fuel efficiency. I think that's mainly the fault of the hybrid system rather than the engine (Nickel batteries Vs lithium in the 1.8). Doesn't bother me because I never expected it to do amazing mpg. I bought it to be a nice car to drive that's not too slow rather than maximum fuel saving at the cost of everything else. The hybrid system has other benefits, the main one for me being being a seamlessly smooth automatic transmission that drives very nicely just like a conventional torque converter system.

I was getting mid 50s when I got the car end of September and I'm down to about 50 or slightly below now the weather has turned. That's exactly what I expected from it, so I have no complaints.

[duncerduncs]

Although I've got a different vehicle, I purchased a Toyota unleaded engine cleaner and ran one whole tank with that and E10 fuel.

I only purchased the Toyota engine cleaner because I was having the car serviced, Halfords etc will be able to offer something.

I did not any noticeable drop in MPG, although the cold weather has seen me drop done to the low 40's.

[Gray86]

My fuel economy has taken a real nose dive - struggling for 50mpg on journeys that would be an easy 55-57mpg in the summer. My tank average is around 43.7mpg currently - thanks to lots of short trips 

[Catlover]

I am sticking to E5 for the time being. Yesterday was a bit warmer around here, approx 10deg, and I was back into the (lower) 70’s on a  return journey to Chester hospital and back, total 14 miles.

[twintopp]

my best mpg is 59.4 stop starting on a motorway for a couple of hours , but during the summer on mixed driving i was getting 50-55 and now its colder weather again mixed driving 40-45, but i couldn`t say i have noticed any reduction due to e10. 

[Stopeter44]

FWIW, in my ICE car, my average fuel consumption has increased by 16%, between mid October and mid December. Which in mpg terms means going from 60 mpg to 50mpg.

[Chriss27]

I took a big hit in fuel mpg the week before so I decided to fill up with branded petrol. This week mpg better but hard to say if this related to weather being better etc too or better fuel ?? At the moment I can get branded fuel locally cheaper than supermarket which is very rare 

[Gray86]

I did a long(ish) drive today - totalled around 150 miles round trip. My average mpg has been pretty poor over the last month or so - currently seeing 44mpg across the tank. The long journey, coupled with decent ambient temps saw an average of 56mpg, despite having 4 adults & a child onboard. Much more like it - despite the E10 petrol

[pezz]

On 12/3/2021 at 3:28 AM, JohnJJM said:

Where has my milage gone since using E10 petrol?

 

Toyota Touring Sport 2.0 Petrol Hybrid

Dear Toyota

During the last eight weeks I have documented a significant drop in my cars fuel efficiency. I now obtain on average about 39-45 mpg(combined driving). This is a significant difference to what I was obtaining earlier in the year. I have not changed the nature of my journeys, the terrain, motorway driving, my driving style (I am a member of the IAM and have more than a superficial knowledge of fuel-efficient driving) etc. 

During this period, I have changed over to the E10 petrol as per national directive.

I have three questions,

1.      Are you aware of any detrimental effect of E10 petrol on the efficiency of the Toyota  hybrid engine and what can be done to correct it?

2.      Have you had other Corolla Hybrid owners making the same enquiries?

3.      If you do not think it is E10 petrol related, should I book my car in for an assessment, as the present fuel usage   makes a mockery of my choosing a Toyota hybrid engine for its efficiency/economy.

 

Hi John,  I have a 2020 1800 and always check mpg, ok we can't always guarantee filling up exactly the same but I find that on my usage it did drop to 60mpg last winter, I expect this because the car needs to be upto working temp and using more electrics. But changing to E10 at the same time is bringing it down to 55 ish so I would worry with your mpg . I do always run in eco and find Shell better than supermarkets but am experimenting mixing E5 and E10 .