Cold weather fuel consumption

[Catlover]

Both our hybrids will lose about 6-10 mpg during winter, depending on how cold it gets. 
Not done the change to E10, neither of us do a lot of miles so we keep on with Costco E5 as we can afford it. At least we know the cars are ok on it.

[Flatcoat]

2 hours ago, Trewithy said:

Filled the car with E5 99 octane at Tesco this morning and noticed that it is 5p per litre more than E10, the price difference used to be 7p.  I wonder if sales of E5 have dropped recently due to the increasing price of fuel and they are trying to get custom back.  

Still 7p difference at my nearest Tesco PFS. Roughly Alternating between Tesco 99 and VPower or similar fuels on our Arona and will do same on the RAV too. 

[Stopeter44]

When I took delivery of my Yaris the Toyota dealer emphasised the order of preference for fuel E10, E5(95 octane), E5(98).

Given, that I am easily getting 35% better fuel economy compared with 208 EAT6 I previously owned, I can afford to give E5(98) a try. I’ve almost never used it in the past.

[TonyHSD]

Tesco E5 99 similar price to bp or Shell E10 95 but it’s a better fuel by all means. I do exclusively fill up with E5 from local Tesco and the car likes it, me too. 🙂⛽️ Happy new year 🥳 

[Marcusthehat]

Well, happenstance we were out for a couple of longer runs over this past couple of days, and back to 55 mpg.

Warmer (unseasonably so!)  and only pootling about.(but not holding up traffic)

Regardless I conclude it was more the shorter runs than the lower temps.

[Trewithy]

When I was driving this morning I noticed the car was in EV mode with the engine running, I could see that the Battery was not being charged and the engine was not driving the wheels.  I guess the only reason the engine was running was to supply heat for the cabin.  A good illustration of why MPG drops in the winter.

[ernieb]

I did a 115mile trip today around 90 miles on the M1 with the speed set to a ‘real’ 60mph 64/65mph indicated. I started with an EV range of 15 miles and switched to HEV mode and ended up with an EV range of 15 miles, temperature around 10 to 12oC. I recorded an overall consumption of 46.6mpg. Overall I thought this was a good result.

[Marcusthehat]

A wee update, I have noticed a considerable improvement in fuel economy with the warmer weather recently.

Remarkedly so.

[Spo2]

On 12/3/2021 at 4:15 PM, Stopeter44 said:

I failed at the first attempt with Fuelly, but got it right at a 2nd attempt. You could try www.spritmonitor.de it does the same, but they are based in Germany rather than the US. It's what I use.

I use Fuelio, which is very good stand alone app. 

[Stopeter44]

20 hours ago, Spo2 said:

I use Fuelio, which is very good stand alone app. 

tried it, but prefer sprit monitor.

[Big_D]

I'm currently trialing Fuelio following Sol's recommendation. 

[Marcusthehat]

Well, out for a longer run today, left from near Ballymoney and took a rural scenic route to Glenarm,  about 45 miles, showing 60mpg, on the return via Glenarrif and Newton Cromelin, got virtually 70mpg for the homeward 45 miles.

Only Pootling while rubber necking(aka sightseeing) but without holding up other traffic I must add, but still very, very impressive fuel economy.

By the way, Glenarm Castle is well worth a visit, even if only for their icecream which is made, from their own cream, right beside the salespoint. 

 

[Marcusthehat]

Repeated that trip today(for the icecream) and got similar figures, just +60mpg on the way out and 70 on the way back, a mix of climbing over the hill top to reach the coast, dditto on the return via Orra, then sea level sightseeing along the coast.

Quite remarkable for an automatic  petrol engined 4*4

pity, perhaps? that I did not spend the extra £14,000.00-£15,000.00 on the PHEV!

About a 100 mile round trip.

[Marcusthehat]

Apart from the 2 Lycra clad representitives of the cycling fraternity who "bottled" us for what seemed an eternity on a twisty narrow overgrown road(literally not much wider than a single car) at 15-18mph for what seemed like miles.

Twice they gesticulated(as they wobbled uphill, and with very minimal forward visibility) that I should pass where there clearly was zero room(even with the mirrors folded in), but would they ever so briefly pull in and let me past, NO!, most certainly NOT.

I must review my 4K dash cam footage and put it on some suitable cycling forum.

P.S.

I am now cycling to work, and also recreationally,  so I FULLY understand cyclists justified frustrations with motorists. But 2 wrongs do not a right make.

[Stopeter44]

12 hours ago, Marcusthehat said:

pity, perhaps? that I did not spend the extra £14,000.00-£15,000.00 on the PHEV!

 

That's a lot of fuel, and if you are getting 60-70 mpg, that would take you a long way.

[ernieb]

The new law says that if the road conditions are poor they should ride in the middle of the road. I come across many cyclists as we motor around especially when we are in Derbyshire the vast majority use common sense. Since the law changes I’ve noticed that large groups now tend to bunch into smaller groups leaving space for the motorist to overtake and pull in if required.

[Marcusthehat]

5 hours ago, ernieb said:

The new law says that if the road conditions are poor they should ride in the middle of the road. I come across many cyclists as we motor around especially when we are in Derbyshire the vast majority use common sense. Since the law changes I’ve noticed that large groups now tend to bunch into smaller groups leaving space for the motorist to overtake and pull in if required.

For what time or distance though, before it becomes !Removed!-minded "we own the road" arrogance?

[Cyker]

11 hours ago, Marcusthehat said:

Apart from the 2 Lycra clad representitives of the cycling fraternity who "bottled" us for what seemed an eternity on a twisty narrow overgrown road(literally not much wider than a single car) at 15-18mph for what seemed like miles.

Twice they gesticulated(as they wobbled uphill, and with very minimal forward visibility) that I should pass where there clearly was zero room(even with the mirrors folded in), but would they ever so briefly pull in and let me past, NO!, most certainly NOT.

I must review my 4K dash cam footage and put it on some suitable cycling forum.

P.S.

I am now cycling to work, and also recreationally,  so I FULLY understand cyclists justified frustrations with motorists. But 2 wrongs do not a right make.

I must admit, now that I'm in the Mk4 I've become almost zen-like behind cyclists as the car doesn't struggle with low speeds like a straight ICE-car does, it will just roll as slow as you like on MG2 alone and it's just a nice feeling...

... Then as soon as it's safe to do so the car will launch back up the speed limit in the blink of an eye and I resume my journey!  

 

8 hours ago, ernieb said:

The new law says that if the road conditions are poor they should ride in the middle of the road. I come across many cyclists as we motor around especially when we are in Derbyshire the vast majority use common sense. Since the law changes I’ve noticed that large groups now tend to bunch into smaller groups leaving space for the motorist to overtake and pull in if required.

Strictly speaking it's not a new law, as this was the advice for cycling anyway - it's just been clarified in the highway code...

3 hours ago, Marcusthehat said:

For what time or distance though, before it becomes !Removed!-minded "we own the road" arrogance?

... but not fully which is where this problem comes from. Half-baked changes like this just make things more dangerous and cause more friction between different groups unnecessarily.

This is partly why I feel cyclists, and indeed anyone that is going to drive or ride a vehicle on the road, should go through some sort of formal training so we all are singing from the same hymn sheet as it were.

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

32 minutes ago, Cyker said:

I feel cyclists, and indeed anyone that is going to drive or ride a vehicle on the road, should go through some sort of formal training

[Marcusthehat]

I forgot to mention how I noticed how effective the  actually regenerative braking was on the long downhill towards Cushendall from inland, though I could not figure how the Battery could hold so much energy( as the display told me it was still charging),  when it only seems to be able to propel the car for very limited distances, and this even on the flat. 

But hey it worked.

 

[ernieb]

Even when the SOC shows 100% the Battery is not really 100% as Toyota protect the Battery and reserve some to ensure that the Battery will still function inside the warranty 10 years.

Today we drove our often done trip of 115 miles back home the first 6 miles is predominately downhill so I started with 57 miles with A/C and after 6 miles still had 57 miles, so agree the system is very clever and energy recovery.

[philip42h]

30 minutes ago, ernieb said:

Even when the SOC shows 100% the battery is not really 100% as Toyota protect the battery and reserve some to ensure that the battery will still function inside the warranty 10 years.

Today we drove our often done trip of 115 miles back home the first 6 miles is predominately downhill so I started with 57 miles with A/C and after 6 miles still had 57 miles, so agree the system is very clever and energy recovery.

And, of course, you can do pretty much the same thing in an HEV. The best trip economy I can recall was 71+ mpg - this was a trip from the middle of Wales down towards the coast. For the first part of the trip the gauge recorded 99.9 mpg (because it doesn't go any higher) as it was generating enough on the downhill sections to get me back up the rises without starting the ICE. The economy only dropped to 71 mpg as I proceeded along the coast road and back up inland to my destination!

(Oh, but we have to ignore the fuel I burned in getting to my start point! 😉 )

[Cyker]

I managed to get my average to say 199.9mpg doing something similar  

Didn't last long tho', as this was while rounding up everyone to go to RIAT yesterday!

Westbound on the M4 and back at around 70mph, plus all the slow bits crawling in and out of the carpark (a field) and I got home with 74.4mpg on the average - Not bad for a car with 4 adults and all our gear!!

[Roy124]

On 12/3/2021 at 1:24 PM, TonyHSD said:

E10 does not even smell like petrol, E5 still does a bit. The higher the ethanol content is the dryer the fuel is which means higher friction and energy lost as extra heat and wear on the all metal parts, higher corrosion levels on bear metals in the engine, higher rate of thinning the oil too, all in all if you love your car better don’t use it at all. I tried few times and my hybrid simply dislike it a lot, engine became immediately louder and less responsive, it felt like there is no oil inside and tyres are half way down in psi., since I do a few full tanks per week I start using exclusively Tesco momentum 99 E5 from a local supermarket and the car drives better than new., plus the price is the same as E10 95 from other garages. 👍

I have been sceptical about this E5 - E10 argument though I have seen the point made that the newer cars are tuned for the E10

However a penny has just dropped. 

My 2014 lawn mower has been running rough, as if only firing on one cylinder (yes I know it only has one).  Difficult to start, I was having to juggle the throttle.  It would stall after a couple of cuts or if it ran into longer grass. 

Now I have no proof but think the E10 might be the cause.  My service man sniffed the tank and said the fuel smelt old and stale. 

I will still use E10 for the car and E5 for the mower. 

[ernieb]

Cars have been set up to use E10 for some years now, however, I now use E5 in the PHEV. I haven’t used a great deal of fuel since I got the car that might change as the costs of electricity gets higher. Subjectively, I’ve found that using E10 the ICE seems more noisy.