E10 vs E5

[AisinW]

I feel the e0 e5 e10 difference on pre 2008 cars but not so much post 2008. My older cars pinging lightly with e10 but it did not do that before EPA E10 mandate.   Coincidentally the carbon deposit may be larger after 200k miles on them.

On 2016 Auris HSD, i did not feel much difference but may be about 1.5% mpg drop under smooth Autobahn cruise speed 130kmh with E10. 6 cents out of €1.7 is about 3% price gap makes E10 cheaper per km. The difference is higher in higher altitude,  may be why no E10  in Austria mountainous area.  

However,  less alcohol is always better for engine wear and catalytic converter life,  so i prefer E5.  Alcohol react with antiwear additive in engine oil and reduce antiwear performance. Although it is very minor in comparison with how we drive,  oil change interval,  cold starts cycles,  and oil brands. 

[Roy124]

Cyker said:

"and don't let the fuel stay unused for a long time!" 

I use Shell and my Shell card which gives me £1 off per 10 fills. Here are 4 tips:

Tip 1, only put in £10 of fuel per visit. 

Tip 2, you can make 2 or 3 (I think 3) per day

Tip 3,after 10 visits remember to select the offer, it's not automatic. 

Tip 4, don't use Shell fuel for a few weeks and they may send you a £1 offer which is even better than 10p/visit 😄

If you don't mind making 3 visits in a couple of days, tick off 3 visits, go on holiday for 2 weeks, don't use Shell on return, and wait for a voucher 👍

[Roy124]

Just re read the whole thread and remembered Tony reporting knocking on his 2010 car, Aka pinking? 

IIRC it was all to do with compression ratios and timing.  The sporty cars with high compression (1:9+?) used to need 100+ octane whereas the old run of the mill car with 1:8- only needed ordinary 'Power' or 'National Benzole' at 95.

There was supposedly no benefit running a Standard 8 on 101 octane though people swore it was better.  It probably was 😄

I mentioned previously on my SAAB on 80-90 octane the engine would only stop if I selected full choke. 

 

[AisinW]

These days we always have super 95 or AKI 89 which is a midgrade in other countries like the USA. Modern cars has knock sensors that will !Removed! the timing if it starts knocking. There is no benefit using higher octane gasoline if the engine does not need higher octane. However, high mileage cars with some carbon deposit may have slightly higher compression than new cars.  vacuum leak, worn MAF, or crankshaft/camshaft position sensors can also cause pinging too, especially on light throttle. It sounds like rice on aluminum foil. Too low octane pinging usually rattle or pinging at high load acceleration not light load. 

[TonyHSD]

Have been using E10  for the last 6 months but only from one BP in my town, its more expensive than any others but the quality of fuel is way better than Shell , others bp, Esso , or small independent garages. E5 99 from my other favourite Tesco seems not as good as before because on cold starts the engine is knocking [ pinking] from time to time , something that was doing before with Tesco 95 E5 before the switch back in September. Otherwise fuel consumption between 95 E10 and 99 E5 its very similar. For me its important engine to sounds happy and be responsive when ask to pull the car, and last but not least no knocking on cold starts. But again my lady is getting older at 221000 miles currently. Efficiency and performance unaffected , only slightly more oil consumption. 🏎

[Roy124]

I am not sure how one BP station can vary from the next as all stations in one area will be served from one depot and several even from the same tanker. 

As for small independents, I can appreciate that, especially a village pump serving a small catchment area and a small or irregular turnover. 

Mind you, we used to have a renegade filling station in our village.  He sold petrol so cheaply that the supplier eventually refused to supply him unless he increased his prices.  He changed brands but not prices. 

[TonyHSD]

24 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

I am not sure how one BP station can vary from the next as all stations in one area will be served from one depot and several even from the same tanker. 

As for small independents, I can appreciate that, especially a village pump serving a small catchment area and a small or irregular turnover. 

Mind you, we used to have a renegade filling station in our village.  He sold petrol so cheaply that the supplier eventually refused to supply him unless he increased his prices.  He changed brands but not prices. 

The thing with me is that I travel a lot and I have tried different bp garages in different areas, although two shells petrol stations within 4 miles radius the fuel it’s not the same and the car feels different. I don’t know how and why but I can feel the difference immediately. Usually the bp with m&s shops are the one with good fuel. It could be because different garages use different additives for example, but I have no idea., if anyone knows and likes to share I will appreciate it. I need to two days to consume my full tank and then will fill up at my usual bp and will try to notice if any different from Tesco that I have in now and particularly cold starts if any shaking and knocking again. It might not be the fuel but the egr again as it’s getting close to 90k miles since I had cleaned it. 

[AisinW]

Shell, BP, Costco, Mobil, Exxon,Chevron, Texaco, Esso, Quicktrip, etc. are toptier gas station with detergent level 200% or higher than EPA minimum. But I am not sure how it is in Europe.  The best detergent is polyetheramine 

Cheaper stations usually are always busy and have fresh fuel, regardless which brands. E10 fuel degrades more rapidly than pure gasoline. 

I always shop on the cheapest/busiest gas stations and preferably Total, BP, Shell, Aral, Agip, Esso, etc. 

[TonyHSD]

I have been mixing E10 95 one fill up then next one E5 97 from the same BP station and the difference in consumption is between 5-7mpg in favour to the E5 97. I haven’t noticed any difference in summer days but now it is obvious. Will try some Tesco momentum next week and see what mpg will be. Anyone else noticed anything similar? 
Thanks 

[Eddie G]

On 8/29/2022 at 6:04 PM, TonyHSD said:

The thing with me is that I travel a lot and I have tried different bp garages in different areas, although two shells petrol stations within 4 miles radius the fuel it’s not the same and the car feels different. I don’t know how and why but I can feel the difference immediately. Usually the bp with m&s shops are the one with good fuel. It could be because different garages use different additives for example, but I have no idea., if anyone knows and likes to share I will appreciate it. I need to two days to consume my full tank and then will fill up at my usual bp and will try to notice if any different from Tesco that I have in now and particularly cold starts if any shaking and knocking again. It might not be the fuel but the egr again as it’s getting close to 90k miles since I had cleaned it. 

Shell was the worst felt under powered after filling up and a friend's car felt the same way, maybe a bad batch but no more Shell use for either of our cars after that.

[TonyHSD]

2 hours ago, Eddie G said:

Shell was the worst felt under powered after filling up and a friend's car felt the same way, maybe a bad batch but no more Shell use for either of our cars after that.

I do try to avoid Shell too. Some of them are ok but at many the fuel is off and the car indeed feels very underpowered and the engine is unpleasantly noisy. 

[Bruce Lea]

On 12/3/2021 at 10:21 PM, Steven83 said:

Thanks cyker, to be honest I don’t care about performance as regards speed or engine noise, all I care about is economy and of course I don’t want to be causing and unnecessary wear on the engine or fuel system. 
 

so if e5 only provides a benefit when it comes to a smooth ride and engine response then I won’t bother. 
 

ive currently got a courtesy car which is a 2021 Corolla sport tourer, I’m shocked to be averaging 43mpg out of it and that’s driving normally without flooring it. 
it’s the 2.0 engine tho so maybe no so economical. 
 

p.s if the smeg all comment is a sign you are a red dwarf fan then good on ya 😁👍🏻

It's 2.0 litre too big engine 

[AisinW]

8 hours ago, Bruce Lea said:

It's 2.0 litre too big engine 

It is a good ideal engine size for Corolla if you carry 3 adults or more regularly.  In mountainous roads and a lot of climbing, the 2.0L is more efficient than 1.8L because of higher torque at lower rpm.  However, the 1.8L is more frugal  on flat road.  The 2.0L engine is more modern design with dual injections. It is the most thermal efficent gasoline engine ~ 41%. The 1.8L is about 39%.  But the 2023 1.8L Corolla has a big bump on the electric powertrain and now less than 10 seconds from 0 to 60mph.