bZ4x - Steer by Wire

[AndyRC]

With the bZ4X having Steer by Wire at some point after the initial launch it’s something that I’m keen to try to see how it feels. If I’m ditching the ICE I’m happy to look at what new technologies this next motoring era has to offer. I abandoned changing gear myself when I found an automatic could make a far better job than I could. From the European press release: 

Steer-by-wire system

“ The bZ4X is the first production Toyota to offer a steer-by-wire system, One Motion Grip; this will be introduced in Europe at a later date. 

Dispensing with the mechanical linkage between the steering wheel and the front wheels, this electronic system adjusts the tyre angle precisely according to the driver’s intention. Being more compact, it also provides more legroom, improving driving position freedom and ease of entry and exit. The traditional steering wheel is replaced with the One Motion Grip-control, making operation smoother and easier, with no need for hand-over-hand turning. Full-lock can be achieved with just a 150-degree turn.

With no physical connection in the system, unwanted vibration from the tyres is blocked, but the driver still experiences valuable feedback. The steering feeling is improved through independent control of the steering torque; selecting different drive modes can change the steering characteristics to suit the driving conditions.”

 

Steer by Wire and the “yoke” appears to be quite a devisive feature and I can see why Toyota would want to offer it as an option alongside a conventional steering system so as not to deter potential customers.  What’s your thoughts? , cast a vote (which is anonymous) and let’s see how much interest there is , or isn’t 🙂

[Stopeter44]

Bring it on. It’s another step towards fully automated cars.

[AndyRC]

18 minutes ago, Stopeter44 said:

Bring it on. It’s another step towards fully automated cars.

A few years back I was sceptical about Active Cruise Control, nowadays I wouldn’t choose a car without it, plus blind spot monitoring. I hope SBW and the “yoke”  are a genuine improvement, worst thing would be they are great but a very expensive option. 

[ernieb]

To be honest I don’t think we will get much choice whatever we might like or want. I’d go for it especially as I understand there might well be a ‘feedback’ setting to change the feel of the steering.

[AndyRC]

28 minutes ago, ernieb said:

To be honest I don’t think we will get much choice whatever we might like or want. I’d go for it especially as I understand there might well be a ‘feedback’ setting to change the feel of the steering.

Maybe in 10 years time it may be a standard feature but it looks  likes it’s going to be a “cost option” and we are going to have to wait a while to try it. 
 

I’m also interested in the Toyota leasing option, with Volvo Care I believe the minimum contract is 3 months, so you can easily change. I’ve already registered interest in a bZ4X test drive with my local dealer. 

[Roy124]

150 degrees full lock is a lot of movement. 

Does it mean +/- 75?

SAAB tried a side stick controller.  

We've used steering wheels to guide our cars for more than a century, and it's worked out pretty well so far. They're simple and intuitive, and it doesn't seem there's much room for improvement---at least until autonomous vehicles make them moot. But that didn't stop Saab from thinking it had a better idea.

Now, Saab was always quirky in a cool way. There's that whole ignition on the floor thing, and how can you not like a sexy fiberglass two-seater with a V4 engine? But even Saab was waaaaay out there when it considered a joystick, of all things, an ideal control mechanism for steering a car. 

[Stopeter44]

1 hour ago, ernieb said:

....I’d go for it especially as I understand there might well be a ‘feedback’ setting to change the feel of the steering.

Now that would be useful, as well as speed sensitive feedback, like stiff at speed and light at low speed.

[AndyRC]

37 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

150 degrees full lock is a lot of movement. 

Does it mean +/- 75?

SAAB tried a side stick controller.  

We've used steering wheels to guide our cars for more than a century, and it's worked out pretty well so far. They're simple and intuitive, and it doesn't seem there's much room for improvement---at least until autonomous vehicles make them moot. But that didn't stop Saab from thinking it had a better idea.

Now, Saab was always quirky in a cool way. There's that whole ignition on the floor thing, and how can you not like a sexy fiberglass two-seater with a V4 engine? But even Saab was waaaaay out there when it considered a joystick, of all things, an ideal control mechanism for steering a car. 

Maybe Saab were influenced by their aircraft technology 🤔 

I’m guessing that it’s 75 degrees either side of centre but could be wrong, it may also not be a linear response , less sensitive say near the centre and ramps up the further you approach full lock🤔

[AndyRC]

I wonder how easy it would be for Toyota to add a throttle to one side of the yoke and a brake to the other to help make the car much more accessible for some disabled drivers there by avoiding the need to have a car adapted?  

[TonyHSD]

Probably a cool idea with some real world advantages but also it is more complicated and so I am 50/50, the good bit is that they offer yoke that can be properly used without need to turn it over and over unlike the stupid Tesla plaid, that it is not only uncomfortable but also dangerous too. 👍

 

[AndyRC]

8 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

Probably a cool idea with some real world advantages but also it is more complicated and so I am 50/50, the good bit is that they offer yoke that can be properly used without need to turn it over and over unlike the stupid Tesla plaid, that it is not only uncomfortable but also dangerous too. 👍

 

Now that does look bad😳 , looks as though Tesla have simply swapped a round wheel for the yoke.
 

The Toyota system does sound like it’s been engineered completely differently. It will be interesting to see how quickly we can adapt to something completely new. I remember going to an automatic (actually a VW DSG) and instantly took to it as it was a massive improvement to a manual especially in stop do situations, and changed gears far better and quicker than I could, and it never missed one. 🙂

[Harters]

They say SBW will be available at a later date, I wonder if they have any timescales in mind.  Last thing I want to do is by a BZ and then 6 months later they bring out the option of the yoke.

The BZ would probably be a long term 10+ year car so I want to make sure I can get everything I want when I make my purchase.  The same is true for the charger, they say 11amp available at a later date, although for me that is not so important and I am a low mileage driver, but would still prefer to have the best I can get.

[AndyRC]

2 minutes ago, Harters said:

They say SBW will be available at a later date, I wonder if they have any timescales in mind.  Last thing I want to do is by a BZ and then 6 months later they bring out the option of the yoke.

The BZ would probably be a long term 10+ year car so I want to make sure I can get everything I want when I make my purchase.  The same is true for the charger, they say 11amp available at a later date, although for me that is not so important and I am a low mileage driver, but would still prefer to have the best I can get.

There are no timescales but I’m guessing it will be as soon as European legislation allows it and doesn’t require a mechanical connection in the steering system.  Toyota are looking to move toward a leasing approach with the bZ sub brand so there may be more options to switch as new features become available? 

[ernieb]

I don't think I'd like to drive the Tesla I have enough trouble trying to remember where the odd control has been moved to if I change a brand of cars.  The muscle memory instinctively knows where it should be and with so many changes I'd feel somewhat of a liability and very uncomfortable. I'd hope that a Toyota version would be more incremental in updating the locations of major controls, especially indicators, horn, windscreen wipers, lights etc.

[AndyRC]

I know it’s only a small number of votes so far but Steer by Wire is potentially more popular than I’d anticipated. Does anyone know if Steer by wire will be offered form launch in Japan? I read the Chinese market will get it from launch. 

[Roy124]

Ernie, quite agree, the Corolla cruise control is all wrong as for lights and wipers 😁

As for the Tesla, it looks as if they borrowed the idea from the Austin Allegro.

Yes proportional movement related to speed would be good.  Rapid or instinctive large movement at speed giving smaller wheel movement with slower, measured deflection leading to large wheel movement.

Using parking assist the wheel motion looks stupidly fast and counter intuitive.  With steer by wire you wouldn't know.

[Cyker]

I wouldn't go near it without knowing what redundancy it has and how it will react in fault and emergency situations.

[Yugguy1970]

That Tesla yoke stupidity reminds me of Kit from Knightrider.

Even as a kid I didn't see how that could be steered properly.

I think they actually have reinvented the wheel there.  🤣

[ernieb]

It’s a case of the magic suite of clothes, a lot of designers and marketing people stand around talking it up and saying how good it looks without the reality check of someone actually using it in real life.

[Roy124]

Ernie, a bit like parking assist.  When that wheel spins like a frenetic ferret I find it almost impossible to not grab it. Doing all that manual gear shift and pedal stuff while hands off is scary. 

[ernieb]

2 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

Ernie, a bit like parking assist.  When that wheel spins like a frenetic ferret I find it almost impossible to not grab it. Doing all that manual gear shift and pedal stuff while hands off is scary. 

Agreed I had parking assist on the Yeti cars I had I could not get on with it at all.

[Roy124]

I last tried parallel parking assist, plenty of space and no pressure.  It selected the spot with double yellows. 😜

[Yugguy1970]

1 hour ago, Roy124 said:

Ernie, a bit like parking assist.  When that wheel spins like a frenetic ferret I find it almost impossible to not grab it. Doing all that manual gear shift and pedal stuff while hands off is scary. 

I had it on my Focus.  Fully automatic so did everything.  Only tried it the once and bottled it as it went too fast for comfort.

 

[ernieb]

3 minutes ago, Yugguy1970 said:

I had it on my Focus.  Fully automatic so did everything.  Only tried it the once and bottled it as it went too fast for comfort.

 

The Yeti was just the steering but it was as your saying fast and got very near to the other cars. I did know of a guy who bought one and his wife hated the idea of the car until she saw him use the parking feature, he never got to use the car again. 😊

[Cyker]

It'd never work with the places where I park - I sometimes have to sneak past the automatic emergency brake system when I'm parking because the space is so tight!