Mazda to sell Toyota Yaris hybrid clone from April

[TonyHSD]

2 hours ago, Stopeter44 said:

Toyota does make non hybrid versions of the Yaris, they are just not for sale in the UK. In France, for example, you can get the same engine as in the hybrid, with 120bhp, 6 speed manual. At the same trim level it’s about £2k less than the hybrid. You can also by for a few hundred pounds less a 1 litre version.

This same 1.5 is dual injection remember we had discovered recently when info was given about the engines where the hybrid version is only port injection, more reliable in a long run and not as picky on fuel. Hybrid currently make Best Buy of all ice cars unless specific applications are fulfilled like heavy goods or all terrain vehicles and sport cars like Yaris GR 4. 

[Stopeter44]

34 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

This same 1.5 is dual injection remember we had discovered recently when info was given about the engines where the hybrid version is only port injection, more reliable in a long run and not as picky on fuel. Hybrid currently make Best Buy of all ice cars unless specific applications are fulfilled like heavy goods or all terrain vehicles and sport cars like Yaris GR 4. 

Yes, I overlooked the duel injection difference, which accounts for the power difference. The VVT-i option is specified at 5.3L/100km vs 4L/100km for the hybrid. That's nigh on 33% more fuel, as well as 33% more CO² - if that is important to the owner. The price difference is 2500€ which is a lot of fuel, and IMO, inline with the price difference between petrol and diesel cars, with a similar difference with regard to fuel consumption. Unless I made an error in my arithmetic, to break even on the price difference, it means 120k+ km. OTOH, given the political will for zero emissions, I don't expect a pure ICE to retain its value as much as a hybrid.

I have to admit being shocked how much CO² I put into the atmosphere when driving. I use www.spritmonitor.de which, like Fuelly, gives a rundown of fuel economy and emissions. Seeing the emissions quoted as gm/km was pretty meaningless to me, I admit. Seeing it as say 15kg for 100 km, gets my attention more, and another factor of my choice in favour of the hybrid.

[FROSTYBALLS]

8 hours ago, Woofwoof said:

Fyi in america they sell a Yaris which is a rebadged Mazda 2

Not now - Toyota have dropped the Yaris entirely in the US. Their smallest model is currently the Corolla.

[Cyker]

Yup, we're hybrid only here! Unless you count the GR...  

I think they sell the 1.0L manual one in Ireland tho'

[FROSTYBALLS]

In Ireland the 1.0 petrol, and 1.5 petrol (6 speed manual and CVT) are available in addition to the hybrid.

[Stopeter44]

I knew there was a CVT in there somewhere. However, I am puzzled about how homologation works, or maybe it's something else.

Why is it in a small RHD market like Ireland can you have the "whole" range of Yaris (1litre, 1.5litre manual & CVT, Hybrid) and in the UK, all you can have is the hybrid ? 

[FROSTYBALLS]

11 minutes ago, Stopeter44 said:

Why is it in a small RHD market like Ireland can you have the "whole" range of Yaris (1litre, 1.5litre manual & CVT, Hybrid) and in the UK, all you can have is the hybrid ? 

Different importers and different markets. Each importer decides which models, which versions, and what specs to offer. For example: in Ireland the Corolla saloon continued to be available between 2007 and 2019, whereas in the UK the Corolla saloon was dropped for the same period as demand for saloons is much lower than that for hatchbacks. 

 

[Cyker]

I often wonder that too!!!

Esp. since the uptake of new cars in Ireland is generally less than it is here due to the stupid and cripplingly high VRT tax they have to pay on car purchases.

I can only guess the UK's homologation rules are just particularly strict and very expensive compared to Ireland, as whenever I complain about this stuff the response is just that homologation is very expensive so they have to pick a few specs they think will appeal to the most people.

I'm not sure I believe that as, if you look at e.g. german manufacturers, the number of options and customizations is vastly higher and you can, for some of them at least, factory order a car to your specs (Although it takes a lot longer).

Maybe the downside of the Toyota assembly line system is it isn't very flexible so they have to produce a specific spec and can't alter it easily, so they do them in specific batches...?

 

 

[Woofwoof]

25 minutes ago, Stopeter44 said:

I knew there was a CVT in there somewhere. However, I am puzzled about how homologation works, or maybe it's something else.

Why is it in a small RHD market like Ireland can you have the "whole" range of Yaris (1litre, 1.5litre manual & CVT, Hybrid) and in the UK, all you can have is the hybrid ? 

Bringing a car into the UK market is much harder cos it has to be financially viable to convert to RHD

a vehicle which is available elsewhere in Europe requires no R&D to import to Ireland

btw I have come across this 1 litre Yaris mk4 in other locations in the Middle East (used to do a lot of travel and rentals there for work) and they also have a 1.5l Corolla, both naturally aspirated, they are so badly underpowered you don’t want to drive them, we’re not missing anything here.

[Cyker]

Yeah but that's the point - Ireland *is* RHD, so they're already making the cars for them anyway, so it makes even less sense that they don't sell them in the UK as it reduces their economy of scale! The only reasons that do make sense are stupid ones - i.e. bureaucracy.

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

22 minutes ago, Woofwoof said:

Bringing a car into the UK market is much harder cos it has to be financially viable to convert to RHD

a vehicle which is available elsewhere in Europe requires no R&D to import to Ireland

Ireland is a RHD market - they have the same requirements as the UK, so the above is incorrect. As regards conversion, where there are plans to export to RHD markets, most mainstream manufacturers design in both LHD and RHD versions, rather than 'convert'.

As regards the availability of what options are offered in various markets, it is almost certainly down to what options that market's importer wishes to offer - nothing to do with production capability. An example of this is Romania, where parking sensors and BSM are not offered as an option, and where one member fitted these to their Yaris themselves at a cost of 4,500 euros:

Also an example of a RHD car, made in Europe, that was not exported to the UK but was exported to Ireland, was the Turkish made 2007-2019 Corolla saloon. That limited production must still have been viable for Toyota Europe.

[MikeSh]

When I visited the JLR plant on Merseyside about 20 years ago they were assembling Discoveries and one (or more maybe) of the Jaguar saloons on the same production line.

If that was practical back then I don't believe there is any real problem these days in producing whatever model is needed.

As Frosty says, it's what the national importer chooses, and in the UK that is probably decided more by what the lease companies want since we have such high rates of buying new cars that way. And they want life (and end of lease sale) to be simple.

[Parts-King]

Nothing to do with what can go down the line, the importer decides what spec they want and it is built. Toyota have some of the most sophicticated lines in the industry. I don't know the current situation in Ireland but at one time, they had very high rates of import duty, so lower spec cars were brought in, often very low levels of trim, basic radio, no nav or leather, to keep the costs down. I don't know if that is still the case, but maybe a reason they bring in a range of lower spec to this day. The UK has always been the jewel in the crown for most manufacturers, the UK is able to stand higher specs as they sell well, UK owners demand more and will pay more, which is great news if you are selling here

[TonyHSD]

Not sure about the rates for import play a role but I know for sure that top spec Corolla saloon in Ireland is fully loaded and it’s an amazing choice of car, colours both interior and exterior, materials, equipment, everything it’s like another make and model. , it’s more like a bmw than a Toyota. Here in uk they offer those trims that are really dull and except a taxi or rental company don’t see a private owner can be interested, only design has little bit of equipment but again with dark grey cloth interior only, no leather no black or white like in Ireland. 

[Cjohnston1982]

I’m personally a bit miffed about the the new Mazda looking exactly the same as the Yaris. If Mazda want to use the platform, which is fine, at least change the bumpers, lights or something so it has its own identity.

The 2014-2022 Aygo also uses the same platform as the Citroen C1 and Peugeot 108 but look different and have different equipment levels etc yet they are built in the same factory. A totally different car to most eyes but by doing this they can also appeal to different customers. 

[forkingabout]

15 minutes ago, Cjohnston1982 said:

The 2014-2022 Aygo also uses the same platform as the Citroen C1 and Peugeot 108 but look different and have different equipment levels etc yet they are built in the same factory. A totally different car to most eyes but by doing this they can also appeal to different customers. 

Luckily Toyota decided against offering the PSA 1.2 petrol engine that was available in the C1 / 108 - that has turned out to be a very wise decision. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

4 minutes ago, forkingabout said:

Luckily Toyota decided against offering the PSA 1.2 petrol engine that was available in the C1 / 108 - that has turned out to be a very wise decision. 

Believe it was available in some markets, as it is included in the owners manual under the designation HM01.

[FROSTYBALLS]

18 minutes ago, Cjohnston1982 said:

I’m personally a bit miffed about the the new Mazda looking exactly the same as the Yaris. If Mazda want to use the platform, which is fine, at least change the bumpers, lights or something so it has its own identity.

Probably a development of the Business and Capital Alliance Toyota and Mazda agreed back in 2015.

[Cyker]

23 minutes ago, forkingabout said:

Luckily Toyota decided against offering the PSA 1.2 petrol engine that was available in the C1 / 108 - that has turned out to be a very wise decision. 

Well after the fiasco of the 1.4 diesel PSA engine in the original Aygo I'd hoped they learned their lesson  

(If they'd used their own 1ND-TV instead, as used in the Yaris, the car would have been a rocket ship instead of a damp squib  )

[RickyC]

12 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

This same 1.5 is dual injection remember we had discovered recently when info was given about the engines where the hybrid version is only port injection, more reliable in a long run and not as picky on fuel. Hybrid currently make Best Buy of all ice cars unless specific applications are fulfilled like heavy goods or all terrain vehicles and sport cars like Yaris GR 4. 

Afaik the 1.5 FKS ( non hybrid ) is only direct injection.   The dual injection is available only on 2.0  and on 2.5

https://toyota-club.net/files/faq/20-08-01_faq_df_r3_en.htm

[TonyHSD]

20 minutes ago, RickyC said:

Afaik the 1.5 FKS ( non hybrid ) is only direct injection.   The dual injection is available only on 2.0  and on 2.5

https://toyota-club.net/files/faq/20-08-01_faq_df_r3_en.htm

Sorry, my mistake direct injection only 👍✅👌 spot on 😉

[Cyker]

Oh dear... in that case I'm extra glad I have the hybrid version with port injection only! After the valve problems in the 8NR-FTS I didn't think they'd use direct injection any more! It does look like the injectors partly spray onto the back of the valves in the diagram - I hope that's enough...!

[RickyC]

The Dynamic Force engine optimize combustion with more turbolence in the combustion chamber

So probaby they spray on the back of the valve

See this video

https://youtu.be/cWHq-Qr903g

[Graham47]

Now been announced as orders available now with delivery from May

 

https://www.carwow.co.uk/mazda/news/5750/new-mazda-2-hybrid-revealed-price-specs-release-date

https://www.mazda.co.uk/mazda2-hybrid/

Interesting that, to me, top spec. (select) version looks like discontinued ‘Dynamic’ Yaris spec. but with 16” wheels.

 

 

[Ian saunders]

Also good to see a 15" wheel for the two lower grades .