2018 Hybrid 12v battery woes

[flash22]

meh, of course it will show good if it's just been charged, Battery warranty you're flogging a dead horse as it's a wear and tear item they only normally cover the first year

modules can take anything up to 2 hours to shut down 20-30 mah after that is about right

Take into account the Battery tech (AGM) and charging system are very different the Battery is just for the aux system the biggest draws being EPS, AC, Servo, contactor(s) and electric windows the DC-DC convertor charges low and slow it can take many hours of charging to bring the battery up

19, 20 and 21 year cars have had issues with batteries especially those in transport and sitting dockside for more than 6+ weeks

[Talshia]

1 hour ago, philip42h said:

That seems certainly in the right ball-park.

There's a pinned thread at the top of the forum giving a link to Toyota's recommendations in respect of the hybrid auxiliary battery.

 

Where can I see this pinned thread please ?

Thanks

Paul

[Adi8v]

Thanks for all the input everyone. I think my next step is to try and test the draw on the Battery to check that nothing is draining it. I see there’s another thread where someone suggested a meter that could do that so I’ll look in to getting one of those. The dealer was supposed to have done that but I’m not convinced.

One thing worth mentioning is that the dealer who we bought the car from (not the local one) fitted a new Battery prior to us buying it. I think it had been sat on their forecourt for a bit possibly. There are notes in the history (supplied by my local dealer when they were looking in to it) about it not starting and then them fitting a new Battery. We bought the car June 2019.

In terms of usage, it is low mileage. My wife uses it 3 days a week with a roughly 15 min journey each way and then there’s some other shorter trips during the week and then the occasional longer drive to visit folks further afield.

However, an example where it died that I thought was odd was when we last went on holiday. About a 2.5hr drive there. Then out every day more local (30-40 min drives each way). It sat for one day unused and then wouldn’t go in to ready the next day when we were coming back home and I had to “jump” it.

 

[ernieb]

10 minutes ago, Talshia said:

Where can I see this pinned thread please ?

Thanks

Paul

 

[ernieb]

2 minutes ago, Adi8v said:

Thanks for all the input everyone. I think my next step is to try and test the draw on the battery to check that nothing is draining it. I see there’s another thread where someone suggested a meter that could do that so I’ll look in to getting one of those. The dealer was supposed to have done that but I’m not convinced.

One thing worth mentioning is that the dealer who we bought the car from (not the local one) fitted a new battery prior to us buying it. I think it had been sat on their forecourt for a bit possibly. There are notes in the history (supplied by my local dealer when they were looking in to it) about it not starting and then them fitting a new battery. We bought the car June 2019.

In terms of usage, it is low mileage. My wife uses it 3 days a week with a roughly 15 min journey each way and then there’s some other shorter trips during the week and then the occasional longer drive to visit folks further afield.

However, an example where it died that I thought was odd was when we last went on holiday. About a 2.5hr drive there. Then out every day more local (30-40 min drives each way). It sat for one day unused and then wouldn’t go in to ready the next day when we were coming back home and I had to “jump” it.

 

It really does sound like a knackered Battery to me. I’d not necessarily trust a dealer saying ‘he fitted a new battery’ but maybe that’s just me? The trips your wife’s doing do not sound like enough to keep on top of the Battery without regular intervention, additional charging.

It’s a bit like my neighbour who takes the kids to school and back each day and wonders why the Battery will not start the car when it’s cold. Fitted a new battery and after a couple of months when it got colder it would not start the car.

[philip42h]

50 minutes ago, Adi8v said:

Thanks for all the input everyone. I think my next step is to try and test the draw on the battery to check that nothing is draining it. I see there’s another thread where someone suggested a meter that could do that so I’ll look in to getting one of those. The dealer was supposed to have done that but I’m not convinced.

One thing worth mentioning is that the dealer who we bought the car from (not the local one) fitted a new battery prior to us buying it. I think it had been sat on their forecourt for a bit possibly. There are notes in the history (supplied by my local dealer when they were looking in to it) about it not starting and then them fitting a new battery. We bought the car June 2019.

In terms of usage, it is low mileage. My wife uses it 3 days a week with a roughly 15 min journey each way and then there’s some other shorter trips during the week and then the occasional longer drive to visit folks further afield.

However, an example where it died that I thought was odd was when we last went on holiday. About a 2.5hr drive there. Then out every day more local (30-40 min drives each way). It sat for one day unused and then wouldn’t go in to ready the next day when we were coming back home and I had to “jump” it.

That usage pattern is more than enough to keep a healthy auxiliary Battery topped up. 15 minutes each way, three times a week amounts to 90 minutes in Ready mode each week - that's more than enough. It's worth noting that all the auxiliary Battery does is keep the car 'alive' while it's switched off and provides sufficient to get the car into Ready mode. Once in Ready mode all electrical power is provided by the traction Battery and/or the engine - OK the 12v feed comes via the auxiliary battery but that is continuously supplied / charged by the traction battery and/or the engine.

Longer journeys / time on the road neither helps nor hinders. The auxiliary battery is relatively small and once it is fully charged there's nowhere for it to store more energy. So, a 2.5hr drive should ensure that the auxiliary battery is full. And from what you say to did more than enough to keep it that way. So, it then sat for one day unused and couldn't get you back into Ready mode?  While that could be an indication of a duff battery, if it were a faulty battery you might expect to repeat exactly that experience every time you left the car for a whole day? Alternatively, it might suggest that "something was left on" ... ?

Note that folk who have left the car in Accessory mode in order to listen to the radio or keep the aircon running have found that doing so can flatten the auxiliary battery in a matter of hours or so.

 

 

[Roger_N]

I found this link It maybe of interest to some. 

 

[philip42h]

1 hour ago, Talshia said:

Where can I see this pinned thread please ?

Thanks

Paul

Pinned threads appear at the head of the list of forum topics. It's currently the forth one down ...

[roadster-rav]

23 hours ago, IanML said:

Mine was about £25.  The offerings currently at that price may say ac/dc, but when you look closely, they do not do dc current.  This is much like mine, but is "reassuringly expensive" at £36.  Still, how many batteries you didn't need would you rather buy?

I would question the accuracy of these meters when the lower current range is 60 amps and you need to measure about 1/1000 of that. I do have one which is very similar and use it to monitor DC charge rates from solar panels but getting consistent readings via non-contact measurement is hit and miss. Wiring a meter in-line with the earth cable would be far better but carries all the complications of disconnecting the Battery ( see owners manual ). An in-line meter suitable for measuring residual drain would also be quite likely to  blow its fuse or worse if the car was put into ready mode where it could briefly see more than 10 amps.

[ernieb]

The range of 60 amps means a range from 0 to 60A. It’s the resolution that matters which would be better than if it was set to the 600A range. The typical resolution on the 60A range for these devices is 0.01A.  How accurate that is is another matter but as relative measurements they are OK.

[Talshia]

Thanks Philip42h 

I see the thread now.

Paul

 

 

 

[Adi8v]

I’ve ordered a clamp meter so will see if this tells me anything when it arrives.

[Adi8v]

Clamp meter arrived. Positioned the clamp around the +ve cable of the Battery. Closed and locked the car and left it for 20 mins. When I came back to it (left the key in the house) the reading was bouncing around anywhere from 0.07 to 0.18A.

I was able to read the meter through the rear window without having to open the car.

Does that sound reasonable?

[ernieb]

70 to 180mA, does not sound much as the alarm system is on and the flashing indicator would account for some of the pulsing current?

[Adi8v]

Thanks. I’ve got access to a CTEK MXS 7.0. I was wondering about giving it a go with this in recondition mode. Is 7.0 amps a bit much for this Battery?

[ernieb]

Don’t see that as a problem the reconditioning program should sort out the best way to charge the Battery.

[Adi8v]

Thanks @ernieb worth giving it a shot before I splash out on a new Battery.

[AisinW]

ALDI, LIDL charger are also really good charger with good step charging depends on the voltage level of the Battery.  I tested them and it stop automatically when it is full.  I tried NOCO Genius5, it also gives final charge as high as ALDI charger.  I never try CTEK-5 because I do not want to spend as much money as NOCO5 but with inferior internal components quality.  

I believe resting voltage 12-12.8 V, doors are locked and cabin lights are off,  is normal and within the good live of the Battery.  You need to check how much drop under load such as when you press the POWER button 2X, IGN On.  It should be more than 11.3 V.  

If you turn the headlight, AC blower, windows defoggers, the voltage should be above 10.3 V.   Your Battery is still usable for few more years. 

As the battery degrades, the resting voltage at full charge after driving 6 hours or more decreases.  New battery is about 12.8V.  

My 8 years old 06 Prius battery was 12.2V resting voltage but drops to 10.5 V when the IGN is ON (2x Power buttons) without pressing the brake pedal. This battery cannot start the car after parking more than 24 hours.  

[Roger_N]

On 12/29/2021 at 5:44 PM, Adi8v said:

Clamp meter arrived. Positioned the clamp around the +ve cable of the battery. Closed and locked the car and left it for 20 mins. When I came back to it (left the key in the house) the reading was bouncing around anywhere from 0.07 to 0.18A.

I was able to read the meter through the rear window without having to open the car.

Does that sound reasonable?

Hi Adrian

I wondering if you have time and still have the clip on amp meter if you could try something out for me.

Try double locking the car, I.E. pushing the lock button twice in quick succession (within a couple of seconds) you should hear locking noise twice, when the meter is connected and see if the current drain is lower or different from just locking it.

When I had my last Honda CRV I was told this will make the Battery last longer if being left for extended period of time and I would be interested to see if this applies to Toyota cars.

[AisinW]

The current to the body ECU is down from 70mA to 0 after 20 minutes we closed the door, regardless it is locked or not. In general, if the Battery is above 12.5V when you leave the car, it should have no issue after 2 weeks to 1 month. More than 1 month, we should unplug the negative terminal so the voltage never drops below irreversible damage 11.8V. I have no amp clamp. I only read it from voltage drop table on fuse box. 

Assume Adi8v measurement, if the Battery is in 70% original capacity, with  0.18A, it only holds about maximum 2 months before it is discharged to 50% without permanent sulphation. My 6 years old Battery probably only have 50% original capacity ~17 Ah now, leaving it for 2 months may be too risky.