Price increase?

[Roger_N]

Just checked the online price of the Rav4 excel online and the price has increased, now over £40k with the Tokyo Red paint.

The December price list hasn't changed at the moment, as far as I can see.

[duncerduncs]

It's a £1175 increase on the AWD Excel and Dynamic - clearly not done on a percentage, but rather a fixed increase across the board!

Having complained that the bZ4X is too expensive compared to it's rivals/RAV4 yesterday, Toyota put up the price of the RAV4 today....

[atartan]

It makes more sense to get the plug-in rav4 now. Nearly same price

[Flatcoat]

And the gap narrows further with discounts. However I am not sure what the perceived competition is for the BZ4X. ID3? Ioniq5? Tesla 3? 

[Roger_N]

Not sure how I stand with my order now regarding VED, I ordered my car back mid-October at the price before the October increase but the car will be registered next year so will it be liable for the increased VED as its current price then will be over £40K?

[Flatcoat]

23 minutes ago, Roger_N said:

Not sure how I stand with my order now regarding VED, I ordered my car back mid-October at the price before the October increase but the car will be registered next year so will it be liable for the increased VED as its current price then will be over £40K?

Unfortunately I believe that is the case. It is the list price at registration, not when ordered. Personally in the current circumstances a little unfair but I don’t expect the Govt to relax the rules. It is also becoming a stealth tax and counter intuitive and productive given so many low emission cars now cost over £40k. 

[philip42h]

It does indeed look as though the website is already applying the "January" price list to online orders. It would be interesting to see whether a dealer would honour the published December prices for an order through them this month ...

As for existing orders and VED, considering that some of us carefully selected options to stay under the £40k premium car limit the figures used should be from the pricelist at the time or order - and on the contract - rather than any arbitrary update applied later on, and the registering dealer is "honour bound" to ensure that is the case. But what actually happens- who knows?

[Rav4ster]

This will put lots of people of buying HEV Adventure, and awd Excel / Dynamic with options as it will attract the extra road tax.
Agree that Plugin prices are not far off, but plugin does not have memory seats (a must for me) and last time I looked at difference between Excel HEV vs Dynamic PHEV, you need to do quite a few miles to break even cost wise. As for BZ4X, the range is still far less than a petrol based car and charging infrastructure is not ready for mass adoption yet, especially in rural areas.
Another reason would be the introduction of the Corolla Cross and it's position between C-HR and RAV4.

[FROSTYBALLS]

The VED price supplement is based on the list price at first registration not at the time of ordering.

Extract from document below: "If the vehicle list price was over £40,000 at first registration, the customer will pay £450 a year."

ved-reform-briefing-for-motor-industry.pdf (publishing.service.gov.uk)

[philip42h]

45 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

The VED price supplement is based on the list price at first registration not at the time of ordering.

Extract from document below: "If the vehicle list price was over £40,000 at first registration, the customer will pay £450 a year."

ved-reform-briefing-for-motor-industry.pdf (publishing.service.gov.uk)

And that says:

Quote

This list price will be provided by the manufacturer or dealer/retailer and reflect the vehicle list price on the day before it is first registered and taxed.

So, for a car ordered in October, the dealer is obliged to provide the list price applicable at the time of the order - the October list price - since that fairly reflects the value / price of the car in question at the time it is registered. And that is what I shall argue in court - I may not win! 😉

[Flatcoat]

2 minutes ago, philip42h said:

And that says:

So, for a car ordered in October, the dealer is obliged to provide the list price applicable at the time of the order - the October list price - since that fairly reflects the value / price of the car in question at the time it is registered. And that is what I shall argue in court - I may not win! 😉

Pardon? How do you come up with that? 

 

1 hour ago, Rav4ster said:

This will put lots of people of buying HEV Adventure, and awd Excel / Dynamic with options as it will attract the extra road tax.
Agree that Plugin prices are not far off, but plugin does not have memory seats (a must for me) and last time I looked at difference between Excel HEV vs Dynamic PHEV, you need to do quite a few miles to break even cost wise. As for BZ4X, the range is still far less than a petrol based car and charging infrastructure is not ready for mass adoption yet, especially in rural areas.
Another reason would be the introduction of the Corolla Cross and it's position between C-HR and RAV4.

1) The PHEV Dynamic Premium has memory seats. 
2) the future value of the PHEV will be about £2k higher like for like.

3) Use of EV mode can significantly reduce spend on petrol. 
So al in all the payback period could be minimal. The PHEV also brings additional sound proofing, noise reducing front windows and a lot more horses under the loud pedal! 

[Rav4ster]

Did not know about memory seats in Dynamic Premium, thank you, but it increases the price gap even more. I test drove Dynamic back in September and another thing that put me off ordering PHEV is no changes to suspension or breaks (one that I can notice against HEV) and dealer told the same. Plugin is a very fast car when needed, but for me personally, brakes need to be better and suspension a bit stiffer to be able to use that power safely. With my driving pattern,  PHEV would reduce my fuel bill by about 30%, that will be eaten by the extra road tax.
This just shows that we all use our cars differently and it is great to have a choice of HEV and PHEV.
In September (before the plugin price drop) I was set on buying new Excel HEV, with 4500 discount, but in the end decided to PCH one for 3 years as I think there is a very high chance that the government will increase the road tax and include most of petrol based cars in the clean air zones charges. If it happens and used car prices plummet, with a leased car you are not loosing out.

[philip42h]

1 hour ago, Flatcoat said:

Pardon? How do you come up with that?

... by reading the words - don't Yorkshire folk do that? 😁

But seriously, the wording is ambiguous and does not specify the "Price List" to be used - it refers only to "list price".

Consider, if you will, someone who orders a Black Edition against the October Price List, agrees spec and discounts with the dealer and subsequently takes delivery in February next year. The Black Edition has been discontinued and will not be found in the February 2022 Price List. The only valid list price for such a car is that from the October Price List.

Similarly, if someone ordered a 2021MY RAV4 against the October Price List and subsequently takes delivery in February next year there is absolutely no justification for them paying a rate of VED applicable to a 2022MY car that they don't have. Again, the list price of the car they have bought is contained within the October Price List.

I have merely generalised from these cases to assert that the Price List applicable at the time of order and that governs the purchasers contract with the dealer is the one that contains the 'list price' that the dealer must supply at the time of first registration. As I said, the argument may not hold up in court ...

[ernieb]

47 minutes ago, Rav4ster said:

Did not know about memory seats in Dynamic Premium, thank you, but it increases the price gap even more. I test drove Dynamic back in September and another thing that put me off ordering PHEV is no changes to suspension or breaks (one that I can notice against HEV) and dealer told the same. Plugin is a very fast car when needed, but for me personally, brakes need to be better and suspension a bit stiffer to be able to use that power safely. With my driving pattern,  PHEV would reduce my fuel bill by about 30%, that will be eaten by the extra road tax.
This just shows that we all use our cars differently and it is great to have a choice of HEV and PHEV.
In September (before the plugin price drop) I was set on buying new Excel HEV, with 4500 discount, but in the end decided to PCH one for 3 years as I think there is a very high chance that the government will increase the road tax and include most of petrol based cars in the clean air zones charges. If it happens and used car prices plummet, with a leased car you are not loosing out.

I thought the PHEV had 12.9” / 12.5” brake rotors as compared to the HEV 12.0” / 11.1”?
I’ve got a PHEV and find the suspension more than adequate and handles fine but likes lots of things with cars it’s down to personal choice.

[Roger_N]

1 hour ago, philip42h said:

... by reading the words - don't Yorkshire folk do that? 😁

But seriously, the wording is ambiguous and does not specify the "Price List" to be used - it refers only to "list price".

Consider, if you will, someone who orders a Black Edition against the October Price List, agrees spec and discounts with the dealer and subsequently takes delivery in February next year. The Black Edition has been discontinued and will not be found in the February 2022 Price List. The only valid list price for such a car is that from the October Price List.

Similarly, if someone ordered a 2021MY RAV4 against the October Price List and subsequently takes delivery in February next year there is absolutely no justification for them paying a rate of VED applicable to a 2022MY car that they don't have. Again, the list price of the car they have bought is contained within the October Price List.

I have merely generalised from these cases to assert that the Price List applicable at the time of order and that governs the purchasers contract with the dealer is the one that contains the 'list price' that the dealer must supply at the time of first registration. As I said, the argument may not hold up in court ...

I fully agree with your position on this but the wording is the list price including options when the car is first registered.

in the case of the Black edition the last price was in the October price list, any car that is in a later price list that will be the one used.

 

I have just been down too see the dealer I ordered my car from, they didn’t know about the price increase but my order was classed as a fleet order and they are checking to see if the same conditions apply (I suspect they do), what they did say is I can change the colour of the car to drop it below the £40K before it goes into production without adversely effecting my order.

 

[FORBES]

Hi new member here, according to my salesman who I placed a order with last week it is the retail price that is listed at time of order, not the price when first registered. I hope he is right.

[Cyker]

Ha! EV owners are just lucky the government caved and exempted them from the over 40k tax, since every EV with half-decent range is over 40k!!

With the price, I think if you've put down a deposit and both sides have agreed, they can't just change the price unilaterally afterwards. Even with a price change, you can pull out at any time, so it's within the dealer's best interest to cut the price down to what you agreed even if it goes up.

The dealers seem to have a *lot* more wiggle-room with New cars than Used ones.

It sucks that the 40k tax applies to the RRP/list price, so dealer discounts won't help stave it off.

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

13 minutes ago, FORBES said:

Hi new member here, according to my salesman who I placed a order with last week it is the retail price that is listed at time of order, not the price when first registered. I hope he is right.

Not according to the Government briefing document for dealers I posted earlier.

[Flatcoat]

35 minutes ago, FORBES said:

Hi new member here, according to my salesman who I placed a order with last week it is the retail price that is listed at time of order, not the price when first registered. I hope he is right.

If he is so sure then Ask him to put that in writing in the sale contract….  

[FORBES]

Note that the list price is the retail price published by the manufacturer before the vehicle is passed to the dealer for registration. This includes the price of any non-standard options, VAT, delivery charges to the dealership, and pre-delivery inspection charges. It is not the same as the OTR price, which includes VED and the first year registration fee.

[Roger_N]

10 hours ago, FORBES said:

Note that the list price is the retail price published by the manufacturer before the vehicle is passed to the dealer for registration. This includes the price of any non-standard options, VAT, delivery charges to the dealership, and pre-delivery inspection charges. It is not the same as the OTR price, which includes VED and the first year registration fee.

So if you had a discount directly from Toyota and not from the dealer that would make a difference?

 

I doubt it would I would clutch at any straw to save the extra cost.

[FROSTYBALLS]

2 minutes ago, Roger_N said:

So if you had a discount directly from Toyota and not from the dealer that would make a difference?

 

No.

[Roger_N]

1 minute ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

No.

As I expected then.

Looks like I may be changing the colour, I was told yesterday I could do this before the car enters the build stage and it would not affect the order in any other way.

[Rav Rob]

Mine is due mid January so not sure if affected by the rise or not.

The road tax isn't an issue as mine still scrapes under 40 even with the massive rise, it would be the lease companies hit anyway not mine.

But if registered at the higher price it will cost me more BIK tax which would be annoying paying tax on a £39K car that actually cost £37K.

Its a good car, but worth £40K? I would look again.

EDIT - as prices had risen some what already when I ordered this time, the BIK rise per year for me is £207 so not too painful.

[Roger_N]

19 minutes ago, Rav Rob said:

Mine is due mid January so not sure if affected by the rise or not.

The road tax isn't an issue as mine still scrapes under 40 even with the massive rise, it would be the lease companies hit anyway not mine.

But if registered at the higher price it will cost me more BIK tax which would be annoying paying tax on a £39K car that actually cost £37K.

Its a good car, but worth £40K? I would look again.

The cost of the car isn’t my issue (paid a deposit before the October price rise which was only £280).

I was looking to keep the Rav4 longer than I’ve kept my previous cars and paying the extra VED is annoying to say the least.

My last 2 cars have had pearlescent paint and they seem to resist chips caused by stones better than other paint, I don’t know if I’m right but I put it down to the extra clear coat.