AC Condenser

[roks]

Hi all,

Noticed one corner of the condenser wet, bottom right, looking from the front of the card. Then noticed what appeared to be clogged fins so gently tried to clean with plastic brush.

Brushing seems to produce a lot of metallic crumbs/flakes, from 1/3 downwards, is the coating or the actual metals disintegrated?

Any thoughts?

Thanks

 

[TonyHSD]

Oops, it doesn’t look good., it seems to me the metal thins disintegrated. Have you got AC working at all? It that mark its not the gas and oil, what else can it be? 

[roks]

2 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

Have you got AC working at all?

Ahmm it was working before I have not tried it since, need to hoover out the flakes, they are all held by spider web, I didn't want the fan to blow them onto other parts.

I guess I am looking at a condenser and re-gas?

[Mooly]

That fifth picture does seem to show what could be oil on the condenser which could well be a sign of a leak.  

[roks]

I am going to see how much Mr.T wants for the condenser.

What's a good aftermarket brand to get? Found a Denso for £113 and Nissen £78

[Auris James]

I bought a 2015 Auris Hybrid estate as a Toyota Used vehicle and 6 months later the AC failed in the Summer. One Friday working. Few days later not. It came with a 1 year warranty and so booked it in for diagnostic at Inchcape Toyota where I bought it. Had only done less than 3k miles in it, as soon after purchase in lockdown. If stone damage, not covered. 

Initially declined by warranty and then dealer took and sent more pictures. Leak/stain/wetness in exact same place and no evidence of stone damage near bottom right ! Finally warranty covered it but had to wait 2 months as Condenser on back order. Car had around 29,000miles when replaced.

On other vehicles have used Nissens brand AC condensers and no issues. Would also have no issue with DENSO, as believe Toyota use Denso parts. 

If the AC pipe enters that side could be the O ring seal has perished, so worth checking. Your condenser does look in bad condition though.

Hope you get it sorted cheaply.  James👍

[Cyker]

Major props for getting them to replace it under warranty!!

[Auris James]

10 hours ago, Cyker said:

Major props for getting them to replace it under warranty!!

I explained that I felt, as no stone damage in area and only done under 3,000 miles I may of inherited the issue. To be fair I have had good service from my local Inchcape dealer. 

James👍

[roks]

Thanks guys, mimes is out of warranty, just past 50k miles, its not the o-ring as the leak is on the opposite side and no stone damage, just disintegrated fins.

The original parts don't seem to last as long as they used to. I mean my 16 year old Corolla failed radiator after 14 years, this car is just 8yrs old.

The Denso one has the exact dimensions as my current one, also the most expensive but I think if I don't find cheaper match I will go for the denso.

Will need to find a garage that will extract the gas for me and then take it back for re-gas once I've installed the new condenser.

 

[yossarian247]

38 minutes ago, roks said:

Thanks guys, mimes is out of warranty, just past 50k miles, its not the o-ring as the leak is on the opposite side and no stone damage, just disintegrated fins.

The original parts don't seem to last as long as they used to. I mean my 16 year old Corolla failed radiator after 14 years, this car is just 8yrs old.

The Denso one has the exact dimensions as my current one, also the most expensive but I think if I don't find cheaper match I will go for the denso.

Will need to find a garage that will extract the gas for me and then take it back for re-gas once I've installed the new condenser.

 

If it's been leaking then there won't be any gas left in the system anyway. Even a tiny pinhole will empty the system completely within a day or so. 

[roks]

59 minutes ago, yossarian247 said:

If it's been leaking then there won't be any gas left in the system anyway

🤔 The AC has working since I got the car just over a year a go, will it still produce cold if there is no gas? I got a feeling its got at least some left in there.

 

Anyone have any experience with NRF condensers or the company?

[Stivino]

It is possible that there is enough in it for it to function, it doesn't always escape immediately obviously, it will depend on the size of the hole.  Mine worked for a long time with a leak.

I fitted a cheap as chips condenser from Amazon and it is still OK after more than a year. I think it was about £35. I can't remember the brand. 

[roks]

1 hour ago, Stivino said:

I fitted a cheap as chips condenser from Amazon

Well I did just that, £66 for a NRF condenser from Amazon, no issues with returns, free.

[roks]

Had to ditch Amazon order was taking too long as it was from eu shipping, braved eBay got the same NRF, arrived today and £59, was pleasantly surprised at the presentation, looks quite good quality. Only time will tell its performance.

I assume I'll have to remove the bolts and the plates covering the ports?

 

Also, found a kwikfit garage who will extract the gas for me and then re-charge after I replace the condenser.

[Stivino]

Don't remove anything from it until you are ready to fit it. I think you'll find that it is under vacuum and the bolts will be keeping it sealed. 

[roks]

Are you supposed to fill the new condenser with PAG oil before installing or will that be done at the time re-charge? If so, which grade?

[TonyHSD]

The machine that checks for leaks and fill up with gas will ad the oil as required, only make sure the mechanic knows about the specific type of oil and the machine is compatible. 👍

[roks]

Thanks, just dug out the service manual, it says:

Quote

Tip:

If a new condenser with receiver assembly is installed, add compressor oil to the condenser with receiver assembly as follows.

Capacity: Add 40 cc (1.35 fl. oz.)

Compressor Oil: ND-OIL 8 or equivalent

ND8 equivalent appears to be PAG46, also to lubricate the new O-rings with the same oil.

[Mooly]

PAG oil is so hygroscopic (absorbs moisture and becomes acidic) that it used to be recommended that a PAG oil container once opened to the air should be discarded after a matter of hours... so never add fresh oil to a system that is not going to be vacuumed down and put into service immediately.

You should find an air con engineer familiar with recommissioning a system that has been open to the air for a while. The system will need an extended period of vacuum to remove moisture.

 

[TonyHSD]

That’s interesting, I have done once a condenser replacement on Mazda long time ago with standard gas and oil that were all lost because of the same reason and the ac was not working at all. After I installed the new condenser I book the car to the garage that does ac regas, they connected the car to the machine, vacuum tested, all was ok and after successfully refilled with correct gas and oil my car had working ac again. Happy days. I did not use any lubricant on the seals though, I was not aware I have to., didn’t read any manual prior to the work. If it’s me now probably will add a tiny bit of silicone grease on them if any lube is required. 

[Stivino]

I’ve done lots of air con work and never done anything like that in my life.  And, all the A/C work that I have done, proved to be reliable and had a long life.

If you believe all you hear, you’ll eat all you see.

2 hours ago, Mooly said:

PAG oil is so hygroscopic (absorbs moisture and becomes acidic) that it used to be recommended that a PAG oil container once opened to the air should be discarded after a matter of hours... so never add fresh oil to a system that is not going to be vacuumed down and put into service immediately.

You should find an air con engineer familiar with recommissioning a system that has been open to the air for a while. The system will need an extended period of vacuum to remove moisture.

 

ing 

[Mooly]

I would just say that anyone interested in the topic should research it themselves and then make their own mind up. I first came across this back in the 90's when it was mentioned in a technical manual on air con service manual (paper, long before we had internet at home).

This is interesting, pretty much first out of the bag. Link after this quote:

Quote

Idemitsu Kosan Co. Ltd. is a Japanese mineral oil company that owns and operates oil platforms and refineries, and produces and sells mineral oil, oil and other petrochemical products.

As a well established specialist in mineral oil based lubricants, Idemitsu ranks as the world’s leading manufacturer of PAG oils for vehicle air conditioning systems. With its so called double end capped PAG oils, Idemitsu supplies almost all manufacturers of first-fill A/C compressors, e.g. Denso and Sanden.

Why PAG oils have to be protected against moisture | WAECO

 

 

[Stivino]

I’ve done those jobs so many times that my mind is already made up.  There is a reason that A/C systems have a drier incorporated.  There is nothing to worry about, all angles are covered by the system.

[roks]

Thanks guys for all your inputs, very interesting.

I don't think a mechanic will do the job any better than I can. The only advantage they will have the AC tools ready in the garage and I will have to drive 3miles to get it recharged. When I did the recharge on my corolla at this kwikfit branch, they took ages, they took out the old and measured and then recharged, hopefully they will know what to do.

I will try and do my best to keep moisture out, plug the lines as quickly as I can after undoing the bolts and connect the new....just need a sunny day 🙂

 

[Stivino]

It takes a long time on the machine because it is doing a vacuum test to make sure the system is tight.