Towing electrics on new Rav 4

[jamiem1987]

Hi all, ordered a new PHEV with the factory specc'd towbar (gone for 13 pin as my caravan is 13 pin) - just wondering if someone could tell me before I get the car whether the towing electrics are fully wired so my caravans fridge + ATC trailer system can be powered up? I've heard some stories about german marks not coming with all of the pins wired so you can't power the caravan whilst towing.

 

Thanks in advance!

[Flatcoat]

I have put in the email order for mine ‘to be fully wired for caravan’. Mine is an online order. I will tell you when I pick it up in 3 weeks…. 

[Other Homer]

I picked up my Excel AWD HEV in October - I have a Bailey Pursuit 430/4 caravan so specified the factory spec'd towbar with 13 pin. After the required 500 miles from new, I've been away and can confirm that the towing electrics are fully wired - no issues with running my caravan fridge power whilst travelling or the ATC trailer system. They also give you a 13/7 pin adapter with the tow bar (I had the detachable one) which is useful if you have any older trailers with 7 pin.

Incidentally, I was really pleased with the towing experience - plenty of power available and so smooth for low speed manoeuvring.

[Flatcoat]

Good feedback. We have a bigger/heavier caravan however with 300+ horses do not anticipate any problems. Do you struggle to get the noseweight down to the limit? I am used to tow cars with 85kg or more nose weight limits. 

[Other Homer]

No it was ok, although my van at 1232Kg MTPLM is comparatively light anyway

[ernieb]

The PHEV towing (braked) is 1500Kg.

 

[jamiem1987]

Brilliant, my caravan is 1500kg so bang on the limit - according to toyota uk when i spoke to them the relatively low towing capacity is due to the weight of the batteries taking up most of the gross weight of the vehicle and nothing to do with the gearbox / power etc. infact the same highlander drivetrain in the US can tow 2000kg, the official phev nose weight they also claim is 80kg - i’ll be keeping it close to 70 though when i get the car just to be sure, as my caravan Is an end bedroom its fairly easy to shift some weight back to find the right balance.

[Flatcoat]

The official nose weight is 70kg….. I emailed Toyota to get confirmation due to reading different figures. The towing weight limit is the weight on the trailer axle and NOT the gross weight (or MTPLM) of the caravan. The nose weight is part of the cars payload and deducted from the caravan weight. Therefore the towed weight is 1500kg less 70kg nose weight. Therefore in my case of a caravan with a 1550kg MTPLM the actual towed weight is 1480kg. Beleive me I have checked this to death. And, be very careful shifting weight to the back, very easy to get a tail happy pendulum effect. 

[jamiem1987]

1 hour ago, Flatcoat said:

The official nose weight is 70kg….. I emailed Toyota to get confirmation due to reading different figures. The towing weight limit is the weight on the trailer axle and NOT the gross weight (or MTPLM) of the caravan. The nose weight is part of the cars payload and deducted from the caravan weight. Therefore the towed weight is 1500kg less 70kg nose weight. Therefore in my case of a caravan with a 1550kg MTPLM the actual towed weight is 1480kg. Beleive me I have checked this to death. And, be very careful shifting weight to the back, very easy to get a tail happy pendulum effect. 

Interesting conflicting reports! Best to stick to the 70kg noseweight then - I usually travel fairly light. If you look at the front axle and rear axle weights theres quite abit more weight at the rear on the phev, I’m guessing the worry is lifting the front too much with a higher noseweight hence them keeping it fairly low by todays standards - having said that my current 3 series has a nose limit of 75kg which i always thought was low and it tows really well so i’ll avoid shifting things in the van too much

[Flatcoat]

No, it isn’t due to risk of lifting the front…. If it was that easy you couldn’t carry bikes on a  rack on the rear of the car or heavy weight in the boot behind the axle. It is about the car payload (the nose weight has to be deducted from the payload), suspension and strength and design of rear car structure. It is not about what is best, it is about legality. Whether the specified nose weight on the VIN and V5 is 70kg or 80kg the specified figure should not be exceeded. I am hoping it turns out to be 80 but will only know for sure when I get the car and hopefully the Certificate of Conformity. 

[jamiem1987]

18 minutes ago, Flatcoat said:

No, it isn’t due to risk of lifting the front…. If it was that easy you couldn’t carry bikes on a  rack on the rear of the car or heavy weight in the boot behind the axle. It is about the car payload (the nose weight has to be deducted from the payload), suspension and strength and design of rear car structure. It is not about what is best, it is about legality. Whether the specified nose weight on the VIN and V5 is 70kg or 80kg the specified figure should not be exceeded. I am hoping it turns out to be 80 but will only know for sure when I get the car and hopefully the Certificate of Conformity. 

Toyota state it’s for stability on their site, won’t be exceeding 70kg now you mention it though, i’ve got a good nose gauge, see below - can’t wait to get the car, how far off getting yours are you?

Why is nose weight important?

Nose weight refers to the maximum vertical load that is exerted on the tow bar by the attached trailer or caravan (this also applies to tow bar-mounted cycle carriers). This figure is established by Toyota in order to maintain a safe level of traction and steering through the front wheels.

 

[Bernard Foy]

Don’t forget when towing a caravan or trailer of any kind either two axle or four axel a speed limit for towing mustn’t be exceeded, or a swaying motion is very likely to put you off the road with serious consequences. I was once behind such an occurrence and it was scary. The driver and occupants were very lucky and the car and caravan eventually stopped swaying and became normal.

[Flatcoat]

7 hours ago, jamiem1987 said:

Toyota state it’s for stability on their site, won’t be exceeding 70kg now you mention it though, i’ve got a good nose gauge, see below - can’t wait to get the car, how far off getting yours are you?

Why is nose weight important?

Nose weight refers to the maximum vertical load that is exerted on the tow bar by the attached trailer or caravan (this also applies to tow bar-mounted cycle carriers). This figure is established by Toyota in order to maintain a safe level of traction and steering through the front wheels.

 

And Toyota are talking b8ll8cks. Whoever wrote that is a clueless advertising copywriter. Just think about the weights and physics involved. So exceeding 70kg is going to lift half a tonne of car front end, more with driver and so on? 

[ernieb]

The hand book states 70Kg (drawbar weight)

Many years ago I followed a LR with a trailer very heavily loaded and you could see it rocking front to back. As he accelerated it also started to sway and a little later as he tried to control the car it roller across three lanes and up the Bankside. He did get out OK but the police were all over the car and trailer.

When I towed I tried to keep the nose weight spot on and kept the mass of the van as best I could central only moving it around the centre to make fine adjustments. Other cars I've had also noted that loads carried on a Roof Rack should be taken into account when setting the nose weight??

[Flatcoat]

To be absolutely clear I have not said anything about ignoring the recommended nose weight limit! And the example you refer to could be caused by all sorts of reasons, probably overloaded which is nothing to do with nose weight. I am referring to Toyota’s explanation of the impact of exceeding the nose weight. It is cobblers. Yes in absolute extremis but given the vertical load resulting from downhill braking or road undulations can very easily generate a vertical force equal to a noseweight of 150kg and more. I towed with a Freelander weighing 200kg less than a RAV and yet had a nose weight of 150kg. One of the most stable tow cars on the market. 

[ernieb]

Adrian, I had not intended my post to be taken as suggesting that anyone on the forum was going to ignore the nose weight recommendations.

in the accident I saw there was little doubt that the rig was completely unbalanced. Whe the trailer hit a bump it was pitching heavily forward onto the rear of the car and then springing backwards as it completed one of these cycles the trailer started to sway and the rest was history. The driver was just a passenger as it rolled over the three carriage lanes onto the banking.

[Flatcoat]

Appreciate that however Toyota should not publish totally ludicrous explanations about the impact of exceeding nose weight. The author clearly has no engineering background .

[Lawnmowerman]

Many, many , many years ago (you get the drift) ABI produced a Marauder caravan that had the gas bottles midships over the axle to help with nose weight balancing.

[ernieb]

11 hours ago, Lawnmowerman said:

Many, many , many years ago (you get the drift) ABI produced a Marauder caravan that had the gas bottles midships over the axle to help with nose weight balancing.

Sadly I remember that but it made sense. Getting the van balanced right can be a pain and I've seen a few where they see to have loads in the front and back and the van just oscillates like a pendulum getting as much of the load over the wheels makes sense. Modern vans with permanent beds in the rear must be difficult to get right? No experience on my part.

[Chobnob]

Did anyone get an answer to the original post?  Firstly my dealer tells me I can't order a Rav4 PHEV with 13 pin tow wiring 13 pin only available on the HEV) , only 7 pin so how did you do it? Secondly if any one has managed to get a 13 pin socket did it power the fridge and other 12v accessories in the van? 

 

Thanks

On 12/20/2021 at 10:15 PM, Flatcoat said:

I have put in the email order for mine ‘to be fully wired for caravan’. Mine is an online order. I will tell you when I pick it up in 3 weeks…. 

 

[philip42h]

The brochure (and price list) suggest that you can have either 7 or 13 pin wiring:

If you look at the accessories available when you configure a car online it offers only 7-pin. I'd suspect that is what the dealer is going by and that it is incorrect ...

[Chobnob]

15 minutes ago, philip42h said:

The brochure (and price list) suggest that you can have either 7 or 13 pin wiring:

If you look at the accessories available when you configure a car online it offers only 7-pin. I'd suspect that is what the dealer is going by and that it is incorrect ...

Philip, Thanks, which price list are you looking at?  I can't find one on Toyota.co.uk.   And he big question can I persuade the dealer to confirm this, they don't make it easy to buy a Toyota.

[Flatcoat]

My PHEV came with 13 pin socket as requested. Have yet to hook up the caravan however someone somewhere (maybe on Faceache) confirmed it is properly wired for fridge and Battery charging. 

[philip42h]

36 minutes ago, Chobnob said:

Philip, Thanks, which price list are you looking at?  I can't find one on Toyota.co.uk.   And he big question can I persuade the dealer to confirm this, they don't make it easy to buy a Toyota.

The current January 2022 Price List - downloadable from the website. There isn't a February update at the time of writing ...

[Chobnob]

2 minutes ago, Flatcoat said:

My PHEV came with 13 pin socket as requested. Have yet to hook up the caravan however someone somewhere (maybe on Faceache) confirmed it is properly wired for fridge and battery charging. 

Good to hear.  As philip42h pointed out, 13 pin is in the brochure and the price list as well.  Why do Toyota make it difficult to spend £40k+.  Buying a car should be a great experience instead of stress.  Your advice could have saved a Toyota sale if I can get the Toyota dealer to do his job thank you both.