Feeble 12V battery

[CurranShelter]

Season's greetings everyone... I'm hoping Santa might bring me a new 12V Battery!

Just went to top up my tyres with a compressor and realised it sounded sluggish. So I tried retracting the mirrors (Icon Plus - pushbutton folding) and they were very lethargic. Perhaps not surprising as the car has not had much use in the past couple of weeks, but I expect it may still signal that it's time for a new Battery? The current one is the original, so about 6.5 years old. I tried going into the service menus (both via the light switch method and the volume settings method) but couldn't spot anything that would report Battery condition.

I'll be doing a decent run in it tomorrow (~40 mins, half motorway), assuming it starts OK - and then the same again a few days later. Is that likely to top up the battery enough to see me through until I can get a new battery fitted in Jan, I wonder? I have no charger at home, so I was thinking of taking the car for a quick run tonight but I've no idea whether that would lessen the risk of finding I've not enough charge when I need it tomorrow afternoon, or possibly make things worse.

As for getting a replacement, I'd be interested to know people's experiences - i.e. did you stick with your Toyota dealership and was the price OK, or did you go to a chain or independent (if you didn't DIY)? I have a vague recollection that you shouldn't use just any old type of 12V battery with a Toyota hybrid.

Any tips on this would be much appreciated - thanks.

[Catlover]

No need to take you car for a run tonight. Just put your car in Ready mode and let it do its stuff for up to an hour. The 12v Battery is charged from the big hybrid Battery, there is no alternator. When the hybrid Battery itself is getting low then the engine will kick in. This brings hybrid charge up then engine cuts off. This process will repeat a number of times during the “up to an hour”, not too many.

During this time, keep all electrics off ie heating radio lights etc. You just need to be in ready mode ie ready to drive off but you don’t.

[CurranShelter]

11 minutes ago, Catlover said:

 O need to take you car for a run tonight. Just put your car in Ready mode and let it do its stuff for up to an hour. The 12v battery is charged from the big hybrid battery, there is no alternator. When the hybrid battery itself is getting low then the engine will kick in. This brings hybrid charge up then engine cuts off. This process will repeat a number of times during the “up to an hour”, not too many.

During this time, keep all electrics off ie heating radio lights etc. You just need to be in ready mode ie ready to drive off but you don’t.

Oh now that's a point, hadn't thought of just leaving it to run rather than actually driving somewhere! 😄 💡

[Catlover]

That is the Toyota recommended way. Be aware though, that if you leave your car unattended, even on your drive, someone could nick it. Leave it unattended by the roadside and you could be nicked. 😒

[CurranShelter]

5 minutes ago, Catlover said:

That is the Toyota recommended way. Be aware though, that if you leave your car unattended, even on your drive, someone could nick it. Leave it unattended by the roadside and you could be nicked. 😒

In other words, I've got some unscheduled reading time this evening. 😄

Either that or I leave it running on the driveway and use the good old-fashioned key to lock it, but I suppose that's not 'best practice' either. 😉

[TonyHSD]

7 minutes ago, CurranShelter said:

In other words, I've got some unscheduled reading time this evening. 😄

Either that or I leave it running on the driveway and use the good old-fashioned key to lock it, but I suppose that's not 'best practice' either. 😉

That’s a good practice, I do sometimes for the same reason, just all electronics off and lock with the mechanical key., keep an eye through the house window . You can spray some wd-40 to the lock itself to keep it well lubricated to warrant proper operation in the future. 🎄👌

[FROSTYBALLS]

See pinned topic:

 

[CurranShelter]

Thanks everyone. Having read that official advice and also your explanation on another thread @Catlover, it strikes me that this is another little perk of hybrids, being able to top up the 12V Battery without burning a load of fuel - assuming there's enough charge in the HV Battery, which luckily there was in mine.

Having said that, the engine still kicked in for a short while as it always does when being turned on from cold. I remember reading years ago that it's pretty bad for an ICE to do short runs from cold - something to do with condensation build-up, I think? So presumably the same applies in this case where the engine only runs for a minute or so? Not sure if that's worth worrying about or not, but I suppose the only way around it would be to activate EV mode immediately, before the engine has a chance to start up, but that's maybe not a good idea if it charges up the 12V and leaves the HV Battery low.

[TonyHSD]

1 hour ago, CurranShelter said:

Thanks everyone. Having read that official advice and also your explanation on another thread @Catlover, it strikes me that this is another little perk of hybrids, being able to top up the 12V battery without burning a load of fuel - assuming there's enough charge in the HV battery, which luckily there was in mine.

Having said that, the engine still kicked in for a short while as it always does when being turned on from cold. I remember reading years ago that it's pretty bad for an ICE to do short runs from cold - something to do with condensation build-up, I think? So presumably the same applies in this case where the engine only runs for a minute or so? Not sure if that's worth worrying about or not, but I suppose the only way around it would be to activate EV mode immediately, before the engine has a chance to start up, but that's maybe not a good idea if it charges up the 12V and leaves the HV battery low.

This is the best option 👍 to select ev mode and heating fan off, if there is enough charge In the hybrid Battery the engine may not start for 15 min or so , then when hv Battery goes down the engine will run for about 3-4 min and then off again for another good 10 min or more. Basically there is no problem for the hv Battery been too low as long as you don’t turn off ignition while engine is running. I do check and adjust tyre pressures weekly and it takes me about 10min and engine never kicks in. For the engine oil, yes excessive idle causes issues, higher oil consumption, faster oil degradation, change  of viscosity and lube properties, accumulating of sludge, stuck piston rings and glazed cylinders, but all that to happen you need to keep at idle every day for long periods of time. Worse case perhaps will be some higher oil consumption, my car for example  in winter months can consume up to a litre of oil between oil changes where in summer it’s more like 0.5ltr per 10k miles, I usually keep my car in ready mode for hours during cold nights. 

[CurranShelter]

Thanks @TonyHSD. I always try to avoid turning off the power when the engine's running - I really don't like that horrible shudder it does when the engine's running quite fast and is turned off - I'd much rather wait a short while to let the car do its thing and then turn off when the engine stops.

Just going back to my earlier question, do we reckon the Battery probably is on its way out, or is this all just to be expected during minimal use over winter, and worth seeing how much more life I can get out of it (though obviously I'd rather not cut it too fine)?

[Catlover]

In you original post you asked about acquisition of a 12v Battery. My experience is it’s always worth trying a Toyota dealer for prices of batteries and tyres.        
You have an Auris, and the 12v Battery will be in the boot, driver side, right at the back. This means you need to get an AGM Battery. AGM is Advanced Glass Mat. It means there is no acid sloshing around, which is important in the event of an accident and the battery gets burst open then acid is not going to burn the occupants be they adults or young babies. Downside is that AGM batteries are more expensive then a standard wet battery. You probably paying £150 for a good one like a Yuasa, oem on a lot of Toyota cars, or Bart’s, Bosch, Exide.  TAYNA, Abergele, north Wales are a good supplier to get a price from, next day delivery.           
TAYNA are also suppliers of a very good car charger, a CTEX 5, charges motorcycles and cars, standard wet or AGM batteries. Quite a lot on the forum have one of these. TAYNA price is under the £70 mark. Pricey, yes, but good quality and supplied as standard with some of the expensive cars ie Ferrari, they not always on the road being used so can suffer battery problems.

[Mikw]

5 hours ago, CurranShelter said:

Season's greetings everyone... I'm hoping Santa might bring me a new 12V battery!

Just went to top up my tyres with a compressor and realised it sounded sluggish. So I tried retracting the mirrors (Icon Plus - pushbutton folding) and they were very lethargic. Perhaps not surprising as the car has not had much use in the past couple of weeks, but I expect it may still signal that it's time for a new battery? The current one is the original, so about 6.5 years old. I tried going into the service menus (both via the light switch method and the volume settings method) but couldn't spot anything that would report battery condition.

I'll be doing a decent run in it tomorrow (~40 mins, half motorway), assuming it starts OK - and then the same again a few days later. Is that likely to top up the battery enough to see me through until I can get a new battery fitted in Jan, I wonder? I have no charger at home, so I was thinking of taking the car for a quick run tonight but I've no idea whether that would lessen the risk of finding I've not enough charge when I need it tomorrow afternoon, or possibly make things worse.

As for getting a replacement, I'd be interested to know people's experiences - i.e. did you stick with your Toyota dealership and was the price OK, or did you go to a chain or independent (if you didn't DIY)? I have a vague recollection that you shouldn't use just any old type of 12V battery with a Toyota hybrid.

Any tips on this would be much appreciated - thanks.

During the winter months i go for one drive a week, for an hour, parking the car up in ready mode for a couple of periods of 10 minutes. Either that or i wash the car and leave it in ready mode while i do.

[Catlover]

2 hours ago, CurranShelter said:

Thanks everyone. Having read that official advice and also your explanation on another thread @Catlover, it strikes me that this is another little perk of hybrids, being able to top up the 12V battery without burning a load of fuel - assuming there's enough charge in the HV battery, which luckily there was in mine.

Having said that, the engine still kicked in for a short while as it always does when being turned on from cold. I remember reading years ago that it's pretty bad for an ICE to do short runs from cold - something to do with condensation build-up, I think? So presumably the same applies in this case where the engine only runs for a minute or so? Not sure if that's worth worrying about or not, but I suppose the only way around it would be to activate EV mode immediately, before the engine has a chance to start up, but that's maybe not a good idea if it charges up the 12V and leaves the HV battery low.

Re your second paragraph. I have only used the “leave the car in ready mode” a couple of times, and I just let the car computer to do its job. I suspect flicking to EV mode quickly that the computer may over rule that in time and kick in the engine.                      
Having the CTEX 5 I use that to bring my 12v up to full charge November time, and again around early February. The CTEX takes the charge of the Battery up to 80% fairly quick but then drops to a slower charge and takes longer to get to 100%. Probably a full day 9am-5pm for the whole job. 
 

[TonyHSD]

32 minutes ago, CurranShelter said:

Thanks @TonyHSD. I always try to avoid turning off the power when the engine's running - I really don't like that horrible shudder it does when the engine's running quite fast and is turned off - I'd much rather wait a short while to let the car do its thing and then turn off when the engine stops.

Just going back to my earlier question, do we reckon the battery probably is on its way out, or is this all just to be expected during minimal use over winter, and worth seeing how much more life I can get out of it (though obviously I'd rather not cut it too fine)?

At 6.5 years old with light use don’t know for sure it might be on its way out but it might also be possible to save it if you have a suitable charger you may try that route first and eventually a new Battery in near future. 👍

[mcntosh]

6 minutes ago, Catlover said:

Re your second paragraph. I have only used the “leave the car in ready mode” a couple of times, and I just let the car computer to do its job. I suspect flicking to EV mode quickly that the computer may over rule that in time and kick in the engine.                      

I engage EV mode if I’m trying to creep out quietly early in the morning. However, I frequently get overruled, especially at this time of year.

[Steve Whits]

On 12/23/2021 at 6:04 PM, TonyHSD said:

That’s a good practice, I do sometimes for the same reason, just all electronics off and lock with the mechanical key., keep an eye through the house window . You can spray some wd-40 to the lock itself to keep it well lubricated to warrant proper operation in the future. 🎄👌

Unfortunately if you have to leave the key fob in the car and it gets stolen (thief breaks window and drives off) your insurer will not pay out. Depends where your car is but I'd only do it behind locked gates or in a garage.

[TonyHSD]

1 hour ago, Steve Whits said:

Unfortunately if you have to leave the key fob in the car and it gets stolen (thief breaks window and drives off) your insurer will not pay out. Depends where your car is but I'd only do it behind locked gates or in a garage.

No key in the car left, just start the car and lock the door with manual key and keep the whole key fob with you, car is secure and I don’t think any thieves will be interested in Toyota hybrids, I still keep an eye on it plus I am only 3 meters away. 🙂👌

[CurranShelter]

I've got a CTEK MXS 5.0 on order, in the hope that there might be some life left in the old Battery yet (especially now I've seen the prices for a decent AGM replacement 😬). Thanks @Catlover for the recommendation. I see this charger has a reconditioning mode, so will be giving that a try. I must admit I did pause before buying as there are some concerning reviews online (what you might call a significant minority), with one common theme being premature failure of the 'Mode' button. No big deal, I thought - one of the charger's selling points is the 5 year warranty, but it turns out some people have had difficulty claiming on that after the 2 year mark. I see some folk favour the NOCO Genius 5, but like just about anything, that has some bad user reviews too. I'll just hope for the best!

Meanwhile though, I was wondering if I should have ordered the Indicator Comfort/Cig Connector lead at the same time, as it looks like it cuts out any faffing about with Battery cover, clamps etc. Just plug into 12V aux socket and charge away. Any views on that? Not sure if there are any drawbacks to doing it that way.

Otherwise, I expect it's just a case of disconnecting negative then positive connector, attach charger clamps to each terminal, plug charger in, set mode and let it do its stuff? I remember it used to be that you had to be careful of losing radio settings and suchlike - is there anything like that to be aware of when disconnecting/charging a 12V Battery these days?

[Roy124]

1 hour ago, CurranShelter said:

 replacement 😬). Thanks @Catlover

 I was wondering if I should have ordered the Indicator Comfort/Cig Connector lead at the same time, as it looks like it cuts out any faffing about with battery cover, clamps etc. Just plug into 12V aux socket and charge away. Any views on that? Not sure if there are any drawbacks to doing it that way.

Won't work. The 12v Aux is only live when the Accessory mode is selected. 

Better might be to hard wire the charger lead to the Battery then just plug the charger onto the lead. I have a long extension lead hard wired and just open the bonnet. You could possibly even feed it out through the grill but damp and corrosion could be a problem. 

 

[Catlover]

Curran, you do get a connector that you can permanently fix to the terminals via a vertical screw.. I not bothered, it’s no big deal to connect under bonnet to the red terminal in the fuse box and an earth about 8” away. I know some say you can’t charge via that, so I put a question to Toyota customer service.

[Red_Corolla]

38 minutes ago, Catlover said:

Curran, you do get a connector that you can permanently fix to the terminals via a vertical screw.. I not bothered, it’s no big deal to connect under bonnet to the red terminal in the fuse box and an earth about 8” away. I know some say you can’t charge via that, so I put a question to Toyota customer service.

As I said over in the Yaris group, my owners manual specifically mentions waiting for the Battery to charge up a bit as part of the jump start procedure using that same terminal. It can't be an isolated connection.