Further thought on 12V battery issues

[Parts-King]

Like I said the other day, a lot of people take no responsibility whatsover with their cars and many other things in life

The other day I had somebody come in because the heater wasn't working

Have you had any work done on it? 

No

Nothing?

No

Checked the water?

No

Had it serviced?

No

When did you last look under the bonnet?

Never

There was no coolant in it, empty, radiator was leaking, how it was still running I have no idea, probably because it was only used to "pop to the shops" but still, you get the idea

My Hybrid Corolla does 40 miles a day, when I had Covid last December, it was stood still for 14 days, it started first time!

[john p williams]

38 minutes ago, Stopeter44 said:

I know people who buy new cars and are totally incapable and/or unwilling to reading the handbook. So much so, that to avoid learning anything new, they buy a manual transmission ICE car. I spent hours at a time looking over the manual for the Yaris, and it's the first time I ever did that with any car I bought ! I'm glad I did because with all the RSA/LTA/ACC and tutti quanti, If I didn't have an idea why the car was beeping at me, I would have been very stressed.

I have to admit, given how most of our running about is short <10 km runs except for a couple of 100km trips, I am worried about the state of the 12V battery. So far no signs of worries.

Thanks Peter.

Just run the car in Ready Mode(details in Handbook) for 35 mins, once or twice weekly.

[Roy124]

I tried to post twice, short post, I can find nothing in the printed handbook about using Ready mode to keep the 12v Battery conditioned. 

I don't say it's not there just that I can find it and it's something I am looking for. 

[Yugguy1970]

There is this that's been posted a few times here:

https://mag.toyota.co.uk/coronavirus-toyota-hybrid-car-maintenance/

 

[50p]

14 hours ago, john p williams said:

Surely, if the procedure as described within the Owners Handbook is followed there is no reason for the Battery to fall flat.

My view is that many owners blame an inadequate battery when it is their own inadequacy of ignoring the contents of the Handbook which leads to the Battery falling flat.

I have purchased a NOCO jump starter. The reason being I was concerned about leaving the car in the airport carpark for 3 weeks as I usually holiday during the winter months. What with Covid haven't been able to get away so far. I do follow the Owners Handbook when I am at home but that doesn't guarantee the state of the Battery having left it for 3 weeks in a cold open air carpark.

[camellia30]

27 minutes ago, Yugguy1970 said:

There is this that's been posted a few times here:

https://mag.toyota.co.uk/coronavirus-toyota-hybrid-car-maintenance/

 

The web page is dated April 2020, but i'm pretty sure it used to say 20 minutes in ready mode and has been revised to 60 minutes in ready mode, anybody else remember it that way?

[Red_Corolla]

15 hours ago, john p williams said:

Surely, if the procedure as described within the Owners Handbook is followed there is no reason for the Battery to fall flat.

My view is that many owners blame an inadequate battery when it is their own inadequacy of ignoring the contents of the Handbook which leads to the Battery falling flat.

I agree wholeheartedly! And that was my point; I thought you were saying a jumper pack could be used in place of a good Battery maintenance policy because they, 'work every time.'  That is not the case, they're intended as a form of insurance IMO. Definitely a good thing to have in the boot if you're going to be parked up at the  airport for a fortnight, though.  Sorry if I misunderstood you.

[TonyHSD]

2 hours ago, Catlover said:

when I get a "new" car I read parts of the handbook that I want to straight away so I can get going with basic things. Then, on a quiet evening or afternoon I will pick up the manual a read deeper into other points. I had the Prius 3.5 years now and still pick up the manual for a read, as I do the manual for our Auris hybrid which we had now for 4.5 years.

Same here 👍, 

new car or tech reading the book first then set up and play(drive). If anything strange or new and unknown then Google and YouTube comes handy, don’t absorb everything though, common sense play a role again, then reading here on the forum makes me aware of many things even before I have the problems, always good to know. Every good driver (owner) should know most basic things and how the car functions, cars are machines and not just a sealed tablets on wheels, although they look like 👍 😉

[Roy124]

59 minutes ago, camellia30 said:

The web page is dated April 2020, but i'm pretty sure it used to say 20 minutes in ready mode and has been revised to 60 minutes in ready mode, anybody else remember it that way?

I got my car in March 20 and no mention in the printed handbook.  I think lock down had already given rise to problems. 

[bigblock]

It seems the 12v Battery going flat is the most common thing that makes Toyota Hybrids breakdown in the main. But Toyota doesn't want to make this known very well at all. Would it be bad salesmanship to tell buyers that they must keep the 12v Battery in good condition via "Ready Mode" if they are not going to drive it much. I don't think that would go down very well with a potential buyer. I feel Toyota need to address this problem rather than what appears to be, sweeping it under the carpet.

[Red_Corolla]

It would be very useful if the MyT app would relay the Battery voltage like it does with the status of the door locks, so that owners can become aware of the Battery going flat before it happens. There are aftermarket Battery monitoring devices available, but they use bluetooth and therefore require close proximity to the car.

[Roy124]

Red, would your proposal expedite the drain? 

If you are in a position to put the car in Ready mode then there is no reason why you shouldn't do it 2-3 times a month automatically. 

If your car is in an airport car park you would know you're stuffed but couldn't do anything about it. 

[Red_Corolla]

24 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

Red, would your proposal expedite the drain? 

If you are in a position to put the car in Ready mode then there is no reason why you shouldn't do it 2-3 times a month automatically. 

If your car is in an airport car park you would know you're stuffed but couldn't do anything about it. 

Possibly, Roy. Depends on whether the car still talks to the mothership periodically after it's gone to sleep. No good if it doesn't, as they'd then have to add a lot more energy consumption to keep waking up the comms.

I'm lucky enough to have the car directly outside the garage at home, so I hook up a charger. But I wouldn't want to use ready mode as a charging strategy unless I was sure it was necessary. My reason: The engine would start to replenish the hybrid Battery and that's not very good for efficiency, wasting a heat cycle without actually going anywhere, especially in cold weather.

For sure, a jump starter is king when it comes to the long term parking scenario, or a solar panel if the car park happens to be outside.

[Yugguy1970]

Just for some anecdotal experience, the missus Yaris was parked up for 2 weeks over Christmas but started up fine after that.  She knows to get it into Ready straight away though, and it does do an hour of driving each weekday normally so the 12v would have been fully charged.

[AndrueC]

Presumably unlike  a conventional ICE almost any amount of running is beneficial since there is less start-up drain.

[Catlover]

of course Covid and the effects of it on driving habits was never in ANY manufcturers plans when they decide what goes into a vehicle, Battery size included.

[Roy124]

Red, regarding home power and on road Ready operation, there are lots of wrinkles that need to be resolved before ICE disappear, some perhaps less obvious. 

First, people without off street parking is an obvious problem.  Then another group of people will be the younger groups such as people in rental accommodation and students. These may be low mileage users where they would have to make additional time just to get their cars charged. 

[Cyker]

This is why shopping car parks need to be targetted for charging points in all the bays - The current plan of dedicated charging hubs is absolutely asinine. This way people can charge when they go shopping - which is regular thing we all do - and there's no need to waste land that will just trap people there for 30 minutes for no good reason.

That would at least make these rubbish short-range city EVs viable for more people (presumably the same people who keep draining their hybrid 12v's because they aren't using the car enough   )

Personally I'll still be holding out for my Yaris-sized 300+ miler...!

[AndrueC]

1 hour ago, Roy124 said:

Red, regarding home power and on road Ready operation, there are lots of wrinkles that need to be resolved before ICE disappear, some perhaps less obvious. 

First, people without off street parking is an obvious problem.  Then another group of people will be the younger groups such as people in rental accommodation and students. These may be low mileage users where they would have to make additional time just to get their cars charged. 

There are already solutions for those who park on the street, they just need councils to install them. And - despite what some may claim - it is perfectly legal to run a mains cable across the pavement. Ideally you should cover it with a cable protector but there's no requirement to do so.

There have been studies that show that properties without practical access to charging facilities tend to be properties without adequate parking facilities full stop. Such properties are usually located in town or city centres and are bought by people who don't need/want a car anyway.

There are of course some people who really will struggle to charge at home but for most people it's just a matter of getting the council to install curb-side charging points or running a cable across the pavement for an hour.

Never forget that most people will only need an hour at most to recharge their car after a typical day's driving if they do it every time they park up. And if they can charge at their destination (eg; shops or place of work) then half an hour will suffice most of the time.

[Roy124]

I was thinking also the higher costs of public  charging falling on a section of population that can ill afford it. 

[Cyker]

IMHO unless you have a driveway or garage or some other sort of off-street parking like a designated space, it's not worth pursuing home charging as it'll just be impractical. Leaving cables trailing on the pavement is just going to invite some opportunist to take you to the cleaners for 'tripping' over it and 'injuring' themselves, cable cover or no. 

That's why I think the shopping parking is the better solution - Street chargers will only really benefit the people that live there, and will likely create conflict with taxi drivers and other people using what they consider to be 'their' charger, but shopping place chargers are clearly for anyone and will also benefit far more people. Much better bzzzt for buck as it were  

If it's subsidised by the shops/supermarket/shopping centre then all the better!

It also brings the benefit of not wasting time charging that these dumb charging hubs would, which already charge very high prices.

[Roy124]

Cyker, and shopping chargers will also create charger rage. All very well shopping/eating while you charge but woebetide the driver that overstay their time on the charger. 

As it happens, our local Mikey D is installing charging points.  The next one up in town will probably not as its car park seems continuously full of drive thru customers. At least it creates more spaces elsewhere. 

[Cyker]

If it was just one or two charging places as it is currently, then you'd be right, but I'm talking about ALL of the spaces having charging, which would make it much less of a problem than with on-street charging. When was the last time someone raged at someone for being parked too long at a supermarket or shopping centre while shopping? The ubiquity of hundreds and hundreds of parking spaces with hundreds and hundreds of chargers will make that a non-issue and just encourage people to do the orbital loop of Spot the Free Space that we're already familiar with  

 

[Catlover]

How are these hundreds and hundreds of charger at shopping places paid for? There are moans now that some car chargers have high charging costs.

[AndrueC]

3 hours ago, Cyker said:

IMHO unless you have a driveway or garage or some other sort of off-street parking like a designated space, it's not worth pursuing home charging as it'll just be impractical. Leaving cables trailing on the pavement is just going to invite some opportunist to take you to the cleaners for 'tripping' over it and 'injuring' themselves, cable cover or no.

Highly unlikely. The courts are not stupid in this country. You will have to prove that you have suffered an injury resulting in significant financial loss (difficult if all you've done is fallen over) and that the cable was in some way hidden from sight.

However it is illegal to permanently run a cable across the pavement and councils might decide to get all jobsworth with people who leave their charging cables out overnight I suppose. But most people should be able to recharge in less than an hour due to most journeys being local so I think they'd be fine.