Further thought on 12V battery issues

[AndrueC]

1 hour ago, Catlover said:

How are these hundreds and hundreds of charger at shopping places paid for? There are moans now that some car chargers have high charging costs.

Are there? I've not seen any complaints about pricing. The biggest moans I've heard are that the different networks don't accept other network's payments which is silly. It's bad enough trying to find a charger when you need one but having to find a charger that you actually have a subscription to use is rank stupidity.

Frankly the payment situation is stupid. The chargers shouldn't even need a card reader - the car should be the payment method. When the car is plugged in there is already communication between vehicle and charger so why can't the vehicle have an associated account? Make it a requirement as part of the VED process.

How much more streamlined can you get? Park car, plug in walk away. No need even to get your wallet out.

[Roy124]

AndrueC, I have also heard that high charges are a deterrent to going EV not a complaint by those that have.  The high public charges are similar to the premium for motorway fuel charges.

[Roy124]

18 minutes ago, AndrueC said:

However it is illegal to permanently run a cable across the pavement and councils might decide to get all jobsworth with people who leave their charging cables out overnight I suppose. But most people should be able to recharge in less than an hour due to most journeys being local so I think they'd be fine.

First, running a cable across the pavement is predicated on you getting your car parked outside your home. 

Secondly, the purpose of home charging is to avoid the high cost of public charging. 

Third, cheap home charging depends on cheap rate charging periods which are generally during the night. 

Then charging in under an hour at home charger rates would require charging every day or two - remember in your youth possibly buying half a gallon or so at a time. 

[AndrueC]

11 hours ago, Roy124 said:

Then charging in under an hour at home charger rates would require charging every day or two - remember in your youth possibly buying half a gallon or so at a time. 

But that was only annoying (not that I had a car in my youth anyway) because you had to drive to a garage, possibly wait in a queue stand by the car then drive back home.

If you have a home charger all you have to do is plug the car in when you park and forget about it. Minimal effort and zero inconvenience.

That's actually way better even than having to remember to take the car to the garage once a month to fill it up with petrol and all the hassle that involves. Instead you have a car that is almost always fully 'fuelled' and ready for any journey you want to undertake.

Curb-side charging just requires councils to install them and it's not all that expensive. Some councils have already started doing it.

[Trewithy]

Why should councils provide provide charging points; they don't provide petrol stations. 

[Stopeter44]

35 minutes ago, Trewithy said:

Why should councils provide provide charging points; they don't provide petrol stations. 

That's true they don't provide petrol stations. OTOH, if government policy is to push people to go electric, then it needs a political will, and (public?) resources, to make it happen. It depends on how you see the role of government in the push to cleaner transport.

TBH, I like driving my car, and where I am there's next to no other option, but if we really want to save the planet then we need to dissuade people from using cars and on to mass transport.

[Cyker]

The irony is here, road mass transit seems to be far more polluting than cars - For instance, all the old diesel busses and taxis in London are exempt from any of the emissions controls the rest of us are subject to, and even more telling when there was that bus strike some years ago, the air quality in London increased noticeably and dramatically - Far more so than any of the congestion or ULEZ zones have done.

Somehow even the exhaust on the newer diesel busses smells worse than the older ones - Rumour has it the hybrid part fails and is too expensive to repair so they run them as straight diesel, but because the diesel engines are smaller they are worked much harder.

 

[Roy124]

AndrueC, I have no issue with plugging the car in for an hour every day or two if I have a convenient home charge point. 

The issue is running the cable across a pavement and then recovering it each time. 

Council charge points come at a cost. I don't see lots of on street charging as economical.  In a perfect world every kerb side parking bay would have a charger but they would only be in use part of the day. 

Providing chargers in a car park would still require users to move their car after it is charged. 

Given a home charging point costs about £1,000 a more robust public one could cost several times more.  

[Cyker]

11 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

Providing chargers in a car park would still require users to move their car after it is charged. 

The idea here is if every bay has a charger, people just charge while they shop; No need to plug in at one at the other end of the car park, start shopping, come out half way to move the car, then continue shopping again.

The only reason EV people get in such a huff right now if you 'over stay' is because there are not enough working public chargers, esp. during holiday time. Mass deployment in existing retail car parks would make so many of these things a non-issue.

Government and power companies really need to partner up with the owners of such car parks to make it happen instead of these lip-service deployments of street chargers and stupid dedicated charging hubs.

 

[AndrueC]

4 hours ago, Trewithy said:

Why should councils provide provide charging points; they don't provide petrol stations. 

A fair point but as @Stopeter44 posted if the government wants to push us away from fossil fuels to electric this is one way they could help support that.

[Roy124]

Cyker, I was not considering supermarket car parks, but at around £5,000 a pop would it make commercial sense. Would people actually want to go to a car park and sit there while charging; it doesn't follow they would want to shop. 

Admitted a good number of people would have home/work chargers.  This would actually make 'one per bay' wholly uneconomic. 

Things will get interesting but I shall not be here to see it. 

[Cyker]

No it wouldn't, which is why the government and energy companies need to partner with them, otherwise it is unlikely to happen. It would deffo be a better use of our tax money than how they're wasting it on their current strategies tho'.

Also, the whole point of putting them in a shopping car park is they go shopping while the car is charging instead of twiddling their thumbs like almost all chargers are currently set up. I mean, someone could still just sit there and charge if they wanted to charge but didn't want to shop, but why would anyone do that? Still, if they really wanted to do that, they could, and that's not different from how things are right now so nothing lost there... I think they'd more likely go to a rapid charger somewhere instead tho'.

It might be different outside of cities, but in cities the vast majority of people live in places where there are no driveways or garages, so only relative minority will ever be able to charge at home. Provision must be made for people who aren't so lucky!

 

[Roy124]

OK, further rock in the pond, some supermarket car parks shut overnight and also Christmas Day and Easter. 

Definitely agree about provision for those without home charging opportunities. 

Read about the cost of installing two home chargers coupled with air source heat pumps. Think of the logistics for 3-4 car families, 😁

[50p]

Following this post with interest, although not strictly to do with the 12v Battery!

What would drive me mad is once a charging point has been found that is not already in use or broken, is the paying for it. There seem to be so many different companies therefore so many apps to download. Also you have to have a good signal on your mobile to use them.

[Cyker]

Yeah, I really hope they abolish that and force them all to use contactless. It's already disgusting that some of them force you to pay a subscription fee to even use the point, but that you need a different app for almost every single one is just ridiculous!

 

[Red_Corolla]

Infrastructure is the real challenge, chaps. Installing a charging point outside every home is a relatively minor thing, but building a power distribution structure that can supply them all is a monumental task in terms of materials, labor and cost. Where it all come from? Will ownership of a private motor car remain as accessible in the future as it is now? I fear not, unless technology comes to our aid, as it has in the past.

[Tel_man]

I have been following the many inputs to this topic with great interest, and thanks to members who have contributed.

I have decided to purchase a Jump Start unit as a " get out of trouble" solution.

With regard to regular trickle charging, I will follow all the advice members have offered regarding sitting in ready mode on a regular basis, rather than the problems associated with having access to mains to run a charger.

Once again many thanks for all the advice 👍 

Edited January 9, 2022 by Tel_man
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[Catlover]

Hi Tel-Man, having now bought a jump start, if you going to keep it in the car do remember not to keep it in the boot. If the car won’t unlock except by let, if you put the jump start in the boot you won’t be able to get at it easily. Put it in the pocket that is behind the drivers seat. That way you only reaching over a seat to get at it.

[Tel_man]

Good thinking Catlover- obvious now you mention it 😉 

[Red_Corolla]

36 minutes ago, Catlover said:

Hi Tel-Man, having now bought a jump start, if you going to keep it in the car do remember not to keep it in the boot. If the car won’t unlock except by let, if you put the jump start in the boot you won’t be able to get at it easily. Put it in the pocket that is behind the drivers seat. That way you only reaching over a seat to get at it.

Depends which one you buy, Joe. Not all of them can be easily stowed in a seat pocket 😆

The little Noco units seem ideally suited to our hybrid cars and have the added benefit of using a lithium Battery rather than a lead-acid, so they should remain charged and ready to use for ages.

[Catlover]

1 hour ago, Red_Corolla said:

Depends which one you buy, Joe. Not all of them can be easily stowed in a seat pocket 😆

The little Noco units seem ideally suited to our hybrid cars and have the added benefit of using a lithium battery rather than a lead-acid, so they should remain charged and ready to use for ages.

So you buy a bigger unit, stick it in the boot and look stupid when you scrabbling over front seats and back seats if they fold down ie saloon), wishing you bought a smaller one that is easily powerful to get a Toyota hybrid going. 🤓

[50p]

The Noco I have is too large for the seat pocket but does fit comfortably under the seat. I also bought the proper case for it to protect everything so I don't get a hot seat! 🤣

[Lassusgolf]

Prius plug in 2018,I have plugged my solar charger into the cigar lighter , the result is the charger winking blue light goes out and the Battery does not charge, why should this be?Could the Battery charge block the solar charge ?

[ROCKETRON]

Probably the cigar lighter is not live when car is off so the charger doesn’t see any voltage from Battery.