Yaris t sport ph2 exhaust sensor differences, please help

[xav]

Hi im desperately looking for any information on where the extra lamda/o2 sensors are on an 04 ph2 I have just bought. 

I can't find any info or pictures on this and when inspecting the manifold I can't physically see a sensor from engine bay 

Any Ideas where they are located please? 

I have also read part numbers of lambda are different for ph2? 

I really need to know I bought this car with post cat sensor disconnected and engine light is on hoping once I hook up it will go off but worrying as to why its not connected 

Do you guys have any idea why someone would do this? 

Car has cat back hks silent exhaust fitted but that should not effect anything? 

Any pictures, part numbers or advice greatly appreciated 

 

 

[flash22]

B1 S1 pre cat B1 S2 is post cat, has it had the manifold swapped out and de-cat'd ?

B1 S1 is known as Air Fuel ratio sensor

B1 S2 is known as the Diagnostics regulating sensor

Denso, Bosch or NTK are the go to replacements, you may find the front one is a universal fit and the rear is a direct fit (no wiring)

As you can see from the link below, one is in the manifold just before the flange and the other is, just past the cat

https://www.megazip.net/zapchasti-dlya-avtomobilej/toyota/yaris-echo-vios-limo-42478/ncp13-57198/ncp13l-ahmvkw-927745/switch-relay-computer-17945259

 

 

[xav]

Thankyou flash that's very helpful 👍 

No from what I can see manifold is standard, there was inside car a lambda which looks to be part 89465 from that diagram( from exhaust manifold) now makes sense why I couldn't see it! 

Looking from underneath the car the post cat wiring plug is just hanging? hopefully that one is still in the exhaust? which does still have cat and just needs hooking up again 

Fingers crossed once manifold ones back and the other is hooked up the light on dash will go out 

Thankyou that has really helped me alot I could not find that diagram anywhere you are a star 

Cheers 

 

[flash22]

Not 100% on the post sensor wiring, it has a long cable around 650-750mm, it either goes into the car or into the engine bay

Unfortunately, i don't have much tech info on the NCP13

if it goes into the car there will be a grommet in the tunnel (behind the heat shield if it has one) iirc is under the centre console/carpet on the passenger side on a LHD car

[xav]

Thanks to your help I now know I have a pre cat lambda with short cable (although not in exhaust & still don't know if works? ) but need to jack up the tsport and see if the post cat one is present or missing aswell? From looking under the car I can clearly see a connection  plug hanging quite far down so I'm presuming the bit from the gromit is still plugged in car? On the pictures I've seen of long post cat lambda it looks to me like a 2nd connector in that gromit? It's strange that both lambda are possibly missing from car makes me think maybe one or both failed? Is worrying hopefully I can get it working until now I never realised part numbers are different for the later ones with pre and post sensors you would presume they are same on post at least? 

[bathtub tom]

If you've got both lambdas missing, wouldn't you have holes in the exhaust you could hear blowing?

[xav]

Hi Tom, yeah It's weird I know! I only bought recently and not driving it until got how I want it. Yes it does blow alot to say the least! and is down on power dramatically, with alot of fuel consumption. Engine light on aswell

I knew it'd need some work and for what I paid for it I didnt mind considering rest of car really isn't bad. But I just did not realise that the ph2 uses different exhaust set up and harder to find lambda sensors because they are different part numbers. 

God knows what previous owner thought taking them out would do? Maybe couldn't get the correct ones who knows 

I've worked on alot of cars had 2 tsports and I've never seen anything like it 

[flash22]

It may have had the cat stolen from it, usually they just cut the cables

2002 on the sensors are the same

i can give you the oem numbers

89465-20810 (Denso DOX 0119)

89465-52220 (Denso DOX 0109)

 

the pre cat sensor may well be just in front of the CAT not the manifold like the 1.3

 

[xav]

Hello flash22, no mate the cat is still there, I could see it and where the cat back hks joins on it but It's hard trying to work out what's been done to it and why? , all I could see from looking under the car is a pretty long wire hanging with plug on it? 

Yes please any oem codes that will work  would be greatly appreciated, all I want is to get the car running as it should again 

[xav]

I did manage to source the post cat sensor last night genuine toyota off a 68k car from eBay for £25 delivered (part number 89465 - 52220) 

When I'm with the car I'll have to check that the pre cat sensor is correct code but still won't know if its working until it goes back in. Once I can sort that out then onto finding out why abs light is on..... 

 

[flash22]

abs - rear sensors are prone to water/moisture ingress you can get the sensors on the own but the magnet is part of the bearing - you just swap the hub

of course, you need to pull the codes first

[xav]

Price wise whole rear hubs aren't bad at all for everything new  but really hoping it's the front sensors as must be easier than changing the rear hubs? 

Got the car cheap, would like to keep long term once on top of everything but one thing I was thinking about is the cat long term because unlike the ph1 there aren't any pattern ones for ph2 available? Do you think an exhaust place could make a short cat to manifold section up in stainless with holes for the lamda sensors? 

Do you think that would be silly money? 

 

 

[flash22]

A 100-300 cell cat with o2 bungs i cant see being a fortune, i wonder if the cat has failed or if someone has knocked the cat out

£75-100 for the cat and £6-7 each for the bungs

[xav]

Thanks again flash sport cat price sounds good worst case scenario and yes you could be right there maybe that's why the sensors are out? I won't know til I've got it together weather on Wednesday onwards should be a bit better I will try get it back together if possible, if it works will the engine light just go out or will I need someone to take it off via diagnostics I've only got a basic obd 2 reader not capable or removing lights I don't think? 

[xav]

Hello had the car up today think you were right flash can't see what I recognise to be a cat? Where post sensor is plugged in and isn't in the right place with wires and plug cut off just a very short length of wire*

(see top left of pice 4 wire very close to it) 

I between post and pre cat is straight pipe no cat and pre cat has sensor with wire n plug hanging down but I cannot see where this wire is that it would have been plugged into 

So I have a decat car running no lambdas (why would anyone do this???) 

Biggest problem I can see is finding the pre cat lambda sensor car wiring to attach the sensor to again and having to re wire the the post cat lambada 

Then I guess I will have to get a sports cat there is a large pipe length between the 2 sensor holes  to fit one but not actually sure if this far up is just steel or stainless? 

Any help as to how much it'll cost to get a sport cat fitted and how to find the pre cat wiring would be much appreciated 

Thanks 

 

[xav]

Sorry meant post cat sensor no present, wires cut & has been replaced by a screwed in bung, pre cat is present but cannot find where the short length of wire and plug from it goes to? Am I missing something? 

Any help appreciated 

[flash22]

That's had a de-cat, not sure what country you're in and if you have tests/inspections, No cat is a fail/illegal, engine light on is a fail in most places

See the video above, the connector should be on the manifold - if not you will have to find it in the engine bay

[xav]

Thanks for the reply flash yeah unfortunately that's what I thought too and now makes sense why I got this car so cheap. 

No despite my profile hicup Iam in the UK and well aware of it being illegal so now I have the task of bringing it back to legal spec just worried as to how much it'll end up costing now

The rusty looking pipe with bung going to the manifold must be steel? 

What would you advise to do? presuming I can find the sensor connector for the pre cat? ,

I looked for sports cats all I can find are stainless 

No pattern steel cat sections for ph2

Would somewhere like powerflow be able to make a whole new manifold flange back Inc a sports cat so it'd be legal? 

Or could let's say a new cat from an earlier ph1 pattern exhaust from klauris be welded in or flange modified to fit a ph2 ? 

Im really not sure how to sort this out I've never really encountered problem like this before? 

 

[flash22]

The standard pipe from the manifold back is one piece to the back box

as it has a cat back system on it, that front pipe was custom made, any exhaust place will be able to fab something to suit the manifold and flange on the system

https://www.megazip.net/zapchasti-dlya-avtomobilej/toyota/yaris-echo-vios-limo-42478/ncp13-57198/ncp13l-ahmvkw-927745/exhaust-pipe-17944935

The o2 bungs on that de-cat pipe are too big (tall) as the sensor needs to be in the flow of the gases

a place like euroflo may be able to supply a mild steel cat. i can have a look around...............................

 

[flash22]

25 minutes ago, flash22 said:

The standard pipe from the manifold back is one piece to the back box

as it has a cat back system on it, that front pipe was custom made, any exhaust place will be able to fab something to suit the manifold and flange on the system

https://www.megazip.net/zapchasti-dlya-avtomobilej/toyota/yaris-echo-vios-limo-42478/ncp13-57198/ncp13l-ahmvkw-927745/exhaust-pipe-17944935

The o2 bungs on that de-cat pipe are too big (tall) as the sensor needs to be in the flow of the gases

a place like euroflo may be able to supply a mild steel cat. i can have a look around...............................

 

Edit. Walker (20415) offer the front cat section but its £300

you will need to measure the pipe - easy way to do this is wrap a bit of string around the pipe and mark the end then measure the string with a rule this give you the circumference divide that by Pi

Say 160mm / 3.14 = 51mm or 2"

Example.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262581687420

[xav]

Thankyou flash, I have been in touch with powerflow they just advised to come in so can see then go over options and costs 

The diagrams are very useful thankyou 

I guess the post cat bung is so tall to avoid light coming on? 

The other one up front (pre cat) is seated in exhaust as it should be? 

I have to work out the most cost effective way to do this to get legal again

The car still has 10 months mot which amazes me! 

*While under there checked everything else on body is obvious it's been welded about 6 inch on drivers side outer sill just near rear arch, but how it's been welded its like the flat flange join on this 6inch weld hasn't been put back to original but is solid (ill try photo it) 

Just need to know if way it's been done is legal? Or if again I'm going to need to find money for it to be done right 

 

 

 

[flash22]

its a standard rot point on the Mk1's - as long as it's solid, it doesn't matter what it looks like as long as it has not got sharp edges, longer term if you're keeping the car look at getting it done properly with a repair piece

[xav]

Thankyou flash, yeah it's not a bad repair, if I can get the whole exhaust & sensors back to how it should be then I'll be keeping it for what I gave for the car (675 notes) it's worth putting money into it? it's a black ph2 on an 04 plate, 2 owners, done little over 100k and these engines are very good if looked after. I miss driving my old tsport mk1 and mk2 are worlds apart and I prefer the 1st one. Thankyou for your help flash I really appreciate it mate 

 

 

 

[xav]

Thought I'd post pictures of the rear sill weld

is this uk mot passable not having flange? It does look quite messy and can see rust coming thru under the seal or paint 

*Also some pictures of the exhaust manifold which I think is standard? I'm really not sure? 

*Eventually found plug for pre cat sensor which is in engine bay but is no hole near manifold flange for pre cat lambda to go into? Tried feeling around it by hand nothing I could feel or welds to block a hole? 

[flash22]

It looks like an aftermarket manifold - as I said above as long as it's solid and no sharp edges it's good -you may want to clean is up and inspect it

as your pics show, pre and post cat sensors are in the front pipe