2020 Camry excess road noise

[iws999]

I bought a 2020 used Camry Design in June 2021.

Everything was great until the August when the road noise became louder, sounded like wheel bearings were starting to go.

The dealer couldn't find anything wrong. We changed  all the tyres to ones with a very good noise rating.

There was a slight improvement. Road noise was still unpleasant at 70 mph. We measured the levels with a sound meter and got readings of 75dB at 70 mph.

The courtesy car the dealer supplied (Yaris) was quieter at 70dB, the dealer's mechanic also found it noisier than his own Corolla.

Nobody seems to know what to do. The only thing I could think was that I'd driven thru a deep puddle in early August - had I pulled something off the underside?

The noise seems to get worse when driving into a head wind - could it be an aerodynamic problem?

I've found a Toyota document describing improvements to noise reduction for the 2022 model  - there is mention of an "apron silencer".

Any help and advance welcomed.

If this can't be fixed then the car will have to be sold - it's unpleasant to drive at motorway speeds.

Help!

[FROSTYBALLS]

Tyre road noise ratings don't relate to noise inside the car - road noise for the tyre ratings is measured outside the car.

The Camry was discontinued in the UK from November 2021, so we won't be seeing a 2022 model.

[iws999]

Thanks for the reply Mike.

I do appreciate that tyre noise ratings relate to  noise measured outside the car, but I didn't think that putting tyres on with a bad noise rating would help my problem.

I also know that Camry has been discontinued - do you know if this was due to noise problems?

I was hoping that Camry owners would post their own experiences and thoughts on road noise in the cabin at motorway speeds.

There is a Toyota document I've found online which describes changes to "sound absorbing and vibration damping materials - Toyota Camry Repair" for the US 2022 model, file attached. Perhaps this is relevant. I'll contact Toyota UK and ask.

Sound Absorbing and Vibration Damping Materials - Toyota Camry Repair.pdf

[Catlover]

4 hours ago, iws999 said:

 

I also know that Camry has been discontinued - do you know if this was due to noise problems?

 No - simply low sales.  For some reason Camry as never been a big seller in the uk.

[FROSTYBALLS]

4 hours ago, iws999 said:

I also know that Camry has been discontinued - do you know if this was due to noise problems?

Probably due to low sales in the UK - only 271 were sold in the UK in the 9 months to October 2021. 

[YellowBassman]

I have a 2019 Camry Excel bought used in summer 2020. Just done 16000 miles and I have not noticed anything but will keep my ears open next time I'm on a motorway journey.

[TonyHSD]

Yes, very likely some sound proofing might be missing under the car or engine bay and or wheel arches. This can be checked by Toyota technicians , but there is something important, it might not missing but simply been misaligned and opened gap that let wind and road noise into the cabin. We had two same cars and one had it’s windshield replaced and became very noisy ever since, the window fitter didn’t do his job properly and there was some seal missing at bottom left corner, horrible experience especially on motorways you could hear noise, feel wind too., and hear the engine and generator when slowing down same as you are in the engine bay not cabin. 
Areas to double check: 

1. Under body all along from front to rear

2. Engine bay especially behind and under the engine, firewall too.

3. Wheel arches all 4 corners, look for gaps, missing clips, misaligned parts. 
 

Good luck 🤞 

[iws999]

Thanks Tony,

This is very helpful. My neighbour retired from his car body repair business recently and has offered to do an inspection of door seals etc tomorrow morning, so we’ll do what you suggest.

Plus the car is going to a different Toyota dealer on Friday, one who has sold Camrys in the past, so I’ll ask them to also check these points. My original dealer and Toyota UK have said they can do no more. Fitting extra sound insulation has been suggested.  Not much help.

I’ve spent the last three weeks road testing Audi and Volvo cars, measuring noise levels and they are much better with A6 achieving 66dB against the Camry’’s 75dB at 70 mph but it’ll break my heart to have to switch to a diesel.

So thanks again for your positive suggestions.

Much appreciated.

[TonyHSD]

2 hours ago, iws999 said:

Thanks Tony,

This is very helpful. My neighbour retired from his car body repair business recently and has offered to do an inspection of door seals etc tomorrow morning, so we’ll do what you suggest.

Plus the car is going to a different Toyota dealer on Friday, one who has sold Camrys in the past, so I’ll ask them to also check these points. My original dealer and Toyota UK have said they can do no more. Fitting extra sound insulation has been suggested.  Not much help.

I’ve spent the last three weeks road testing Audi and Volvo cars, measuring noise levels and they are much better with A6 achieving 66dB against the Camry’’s 75dB at 70 mph but it’ll break my heart to have to switch to a diesel.

So thanks again for your positive suggestions.

Much appreciated.

You are welcome, I hope you will find the issue and get it fixed. In case you decide to go upscale the closest car to Camry is Lexus ES300h , it’s basically a more luxury Camry with the same size body, same lovely engine and drive train, better than any Audi or other German brands imo. German cars usually are the most quiet and most refined drive but sadly the least reliable and cost fortune to maintain and repair. 

[iws999]

It's a long story but it looks like there might be a solution.

Update: My very helpful neighbour managed to find the drawings for Camry sound insulation pieces and he helped me remove trim in the front half of the cabin. Everything seemed to be in place, although the view inside the wings with front doors open showed some gaps.

The next day the car went into into a different dealer from the one we normally use for our ancient Prius (they have never sold a Camry or dealt with them before). This alternative dealer does sell and maintain them. We had to pay £108 for a "diagnostic" and inspection. They found nothing wrong, in fact the technician took a 2021 Excel version for a test drive and thought it was noisier than ours. They let us take that car and do some sound measurements. The technician was right, it was noisier due mainly to engine noise rather than the road noise we have. So - time to sell up and move on?

"We Buy Any Car" emailed me a new valuation, £300 up an a previous one.

We were still confused by the fact that we'd done a 1000 miles on holiday last July quite happily but have found the car noisy since a long trip in August. Nothing seems to have fallen off or been damaged so what's happened? My wife pointed out that we did the July trip with a boot full of suitcases and soft bags. Maybe the luggage dampened the noise. So I filled up the boot with suitcases etc.

Today we road tested a Volvo V60 on a new and very smooth dual carriageway and followed up with test in our car, loaded with luggage, along the same section. Amazingly the V60 gave higher noise readings and had a less pleasant ride. The Camry was fine but had been fairly noisy on a rougher, coubikr and grainier surface on the way up. So it looks like the Camry can't filter out the road noise from a coubikr road surface but is good on a smooth one, loaded with luggage.

I had previously checked out an Audi A6, it was good for noise levels (67dB vs our 75dB) but pricey. Gently knocking on the boot lid and rear wings gave a solid 'knock-knock' sound. Doing the same on the Camry went 'clank-clank'. Looking inside our boot with spare wheel removed shows a dearth of any sound insulation.

Conclusion: I'm going to spend £50 on proper sound damping materials and trim removal tools and line the boot. Better than laying out an extra £10k to buy a diesel Audi. If it works I'll have a go at the cabin. Seems like Toyota may have spoiled an excellent car by missing out on a few quids worth of sound damping.

I'll report here when it's done. Fingers crossed! 

[Red_Corolla]

Toyota aren't really competing with Audi, those are premium brand cars sold at a higher cost. There's an A6 sized Toyota in the US called the Avalon, but even that is being discontinued, I think. The real Toyota alternative to an Audi is Lexus. I think the only luxury Toyota-badged vehicle sold in the UK is the land cruiser. They prefer to steer customers toward the Lexus brand rather than sacrifice the reliability of their basic models by biasing the budget toward body and interior.

[Stopeter44]

15 hours ago, iws999 said:

The Camry was fine but had been fairly noisy on a rougher, coubikr and grainier surface on the way up.

You've been UBIK'd, that naughty word filter is way too sensitive.

15 hours ago, iws999 said:

Conclusion: I'm going to spend £50 on proper sound damping materials and trim removal tools and line the boot. Better than laying out an extra £10k to buy a diesel Audi. If it works I'll have a go at the cabin. Seems like Toyota may have spoiled an excellent car by missing out on a few quids worth of sound damping.

I'll report here when it's done. Fingers crossed! 

Sounds like an interesting project.

[forkingabout]

A little wallpaper edge roller is handy when sticking sound deadening sheets on to car metal work.

Decent sharp scissors OR a knife are handy to for shaping the sheets.

I used some 2mm thick material on the doors & back of the door cards on my 308 T9 when I upgraded the Speakers - it also helped make the passenger cabin more quiet. 

[Langstone Layabout]

On 1/19/2022 at 12:21 PM, Catlover said:

 No - simply low sales.  For some reason Camry as never been a big seller in the uk.

I think it would have helped if Toyota had advertised it. Now they have stopped selling the Camry I’m not sure if I have a car that will become more desirable, less desirable or should I have kept my Avensis.

[Langstone Layabout]

On 2/1/2022 at 7:45 PM, Red_Corolla said:

Toyota aren't really competing with Audi, those are premium brand cars sold at a higher cost. There's an A6 sized Toyota in the US called the Avalon, but even that is being discontinued, I think. The real Toyota alternative to an Audi is Lexus. I think the only luxury Toyota-badged vehicle sold in the UK is the land cruiser. They prefer to steer customers toward the Lexus brand rather than sacrifice the reliability of their basic models by biasing the budget toward body and interior.

I took a look at an Avalon when I lived in the Middle East. Lovely car, bigger engine (petrol was 18p per litre) but the interior had a whole 2 cubic feet capacity extra over the modern Camry. 

[Catlover]

43 minutes ago, Langstone Layabout said:

I think it would have helped if Toyota had advertised it. Now they have stopped selling the Camry I’m not sure if I have a car that will become more desirable, less desirable or should I have kept my Avensis.

For sure, I dont think there would be a rush to your door, BUT there must be people out there who like Toyota and would like a bigger more luxorious car, and the Camry fits the bill. The market will be small so you going to have to advertise wide. 

[iws999]

Update on my noise issue:

I've fully covered the inside of the boot and any bits of rear wings I can reach with "Kilmat" butyl sound reduction pads. Then covered that with black thin carpeting material as used in van conversions. It took a while sitting the spare wheel well but the outcome is that the clanky metal box the boot had been before seems much less tinny. The boot lid now shuts with a "clunK" rather than a "clang".

Tried to apply the Kilmat pads to the interior floor by lifting the carpets with limited success. I was too scared to lift the carpet too much. Online research showed there was a sound reduction company called The NK Group based in Oldham, so I phoned them, got some friendly and honest advice and I ended up visiting them where they installed thick insulation material over the entire floor, under the rear seats and under the bonnet. It took two of them three hours and the result is a much quieter cabin. Cost was a reasonable £300 including all materials. They gave me good advice, should have spoken to them before I did the boot as they recommended much better material than Kilmat.

The next stage is to insulate the top of the wheel arch liners as I've found online that others have been doing this and it seems sensible when trying to reduce intrusion of tyre roar into the cabin. Photo attached. There are YouTube videos showing that the removal of various Toyota liners can be a real pain as some of the plastic clips are single use only and are difficult to remove. Looks like the best idea is to drill them out and fit new ones.

So I need a set of replacement clips. Anybody know a reliable source apart from Toyota? Amazon advertise them but they come from China which would take five weeks. Plus they look fragile.

[TonyHSD]

On 3/19/2022 at 6:53 PM, iws999 said:

Update on my noise issue:

I've fully covered the inside of the boot and any bits of rear wings I can reach with "Kilmat" butyl sound reduction pads. Then covered that with black thin carpeting material as used in van conversions. It took a while sitting the spare wheel well but the outcome is that the clanky metal box the boot had been before seems much less tinny. The boot lid now shuts with a "clunK" rather than a "clang".

Tried to apply the Kilmat pads to the interior floor by lifting the carpets with limited success. I was too scared to lift the carpet too much. Online research showed there was a sound reduction company called The NK Group based in Oldham, so I phoned them, got some friendly and honest advice and I ended up visiting them where they installed thick insulation material over the entire floor, under the rear seats and under the bonnet. It took two of them three hours and the result is a much quieter cabin. Cost was a reasonable £300 including all materials. They gave me good advice, should have spoken to them before I did the boot as they recommended much better material than Kilmat.

The next stage is to insulate the top of the wheel arch liners as I've found online that others have been doing this and it seems sensible when trying to reduce intrusion of tyre roar into the cabin. Photo attached. There are YouTube videos showing that the removal of various Toyota liners can be a real pain as some of the plastic clips are single use only and are difficult to remove. Looks like the best idea is to drill them out and fit new ones.

So I need a set of replacement clips. Anybody know a reliable source apart from Toyota? Amazon advertise them but they come from China which would take five weeks. Plus they look fragile.

Well done mate! 👍

You can measured the diameter of the clips and buy non original of eBay , there are some good quality ones at reasonable price and send from uk. 
Regards 

[forkingabout]

Be worth asking the Toyota dealer for prices on genuine clips.

My previous Peugeot vehicles had several different types of one use only plastic clips, they worked out about 20 pence each for genuine ones from a dealer - usually cheaper then eBay & other sources. 

[fourbanks]

On 1/27/2022 at 1:27 AM, TonyHSD said:

You are welcome, I hope you will find the issue and get it fixed. In case you decide to go upscale the closest car to Camry is Lexus ES300h , it’s basically a more luxury Camry with the same size body, same lovely engine and drive train, better than any Audi or other German brands imo. German cars usually are the most quiet and most refined drive but sadly the least reliable and cost fortune to maintain and repair. 

The ES is perfect at £45,000 although just gone up in price, my friend has the takumi build nothing can touch it from Germany regardless of price. The  paint makes it special and the stitching spot on 

my drive is not big enough and the roads where i live don't deserve this type of car, very sad. My camry of old was a world classic 2.5 v6. The 3 litre also was just as good 

[APS]

On 3/19/2022 at 6:53 PM, iws999 said:

So I need a set of replacement clips. Anybody know a reliable source apart from Toyota?

eBay is your friend here ("camry liner clips"). I've used plenty of different no-name ones and they do tend to work just as well as the originals.

Otherwise, a big hats off to you for your work on insulating the car! Really nice to see someone actually dealing with issues. 

[Langstone Layabout]

On 1/19/2022 at 12:21 PM, Catlover said:

 No - simply low sales.  For some reason Camry as never been a big seller in the uk.

And I'm not surprised as I never saw any advertising for the Camry, nor was my dealer particularly interested in selling me one. 

In hindsight I'd have been better off with a Skoda Superb, and then I could have towed a trailer too (as Toyota didn't homologate the Camry for towing 😞 )

[TonyHSD]

Camry was the best selling car and the best selling Toyota in USA for decades, not anymore. People likes has changed towards suv and rav4 replaced the Camry. Most car manufacturers are shifting away from saloon cars and large sedans as these seems not as practical as hatchback, suv or estates in Europe. .   

[ClaudiuMS]

On 1/27/2022 at 3:27 AM, TonyHSD said:

You are welcome, I hope you will find the issue and get it fixed. In case you decide to go upscale the closest car to Camry is Lexus ES300h , it’s basically a more luxury Camry with the same size body, same lovely engine and drive train, better than any Audi or other German brands imo. German cars usually are the most quiet and most refined drive but sadly the least reliable and cost fortune to maintain and repair. 

From what I know, Lexus ES300h is based on Toyota Avalon. It's longer than Camry. (someone from the dealer said this)

[CrazyCatman]

I absolutely love my 2019 Camry H4 (the flagship model in Denmark - I don't know what it would have been called in the UK) - but I do feel slightly higher noise than when I bought it - could also be because of the winter tyres being harder and thereby might make some more vibrations. I mainly notise the noise on the motorway - however I still feel it's a nice, silent car (obviously more silent than my 2004 Yaris 1.3).

I do love the idea of an even more silent car - so might be taking a look at what could be done and take some inspiration from this thread.

In the most other European markets they still sell new Camrys in various configurations (in Ireland only one configuration is available, in Denmark and France two and in Germany three) - Italy is also not haivng it on the list of new cars.
The Camry's sedan look is an old design (even older when taking into account those heavy, curvy trunk arms which I find one of the biggest mistakes of the car), and most Europeans are going for SUV or station cars (Ireland has the Corolla sedan in their setup, however) and Toyota said from the beginning that they didn't expect to sell a lot of these in Europe. I actually like that I drive a car that there aren't too many of on the roads (although I think I've seen maybe five other Camrys since I bought mine, one was a taxi) and I don't have a big dream of selling it as I do like to use out my cars instead of changing every other years.

But then again people seems to like sedans (or would you rater call them hatchbacks?) if they are electric; the Teslas (and is it just me or are they all very similar designed? I can't really tell them apart except the "SUV" model which is a higher, chubbier one) and Polestars are popping in and out of traffic - and neither can really be categorized as SUV or station cars in my opinion. 

I am going on a long drive again with it in a month or so, so maybe I will try to get a test of the sound by that time.

 

To compare with UK models, the H4 has following equipment not found on H2, H3 and H3 Exclusive (previous models from 2019):

• Armrest in the back with seat, sound and climate control
• Electrical adjusted rear seats
• Electric sun visor in rear window
• Manual sun screens in rear doors
• 3 zone climate system
• JBL Speakers
• HUD
  I am not sure if there are other differences, as I only have the price and equipment list from 2022 and the brochure from 2019 (which match the car).