need help. t27 avensis brake caliper slide pins screw torque

[andrewysk]

I am servicing my rear brake caliper (incorporated with electronic parking), t27 toyota avensis d4d. 91 KW 124 HP

I have snapped the bolt. Now half of the screw is in the slide pin. 

I couldnt find torque spec of the 2 (rear caliper) slide pins screws.. foolish of me thinking it could be same as the caliper bracket screws (which is 102Nm), hence snapped it. 

Need help with these:

1. what are torque spec for the screw of the slider pin? 

2. what is the part number of the screw and slider pin (rear brake).

3. is it bad to add sime grease (like copper grease) to the screws to prevent cease (after i purchased the part) 

4. i just lube the slider pins with thick silicon grease (becos silicon won't damage rubber boots of the slider pin.

 

Question 1 and 2 are most important for now. thanks

[2009joe]

1 hour ago, andrewysk said:

I am servicing my rear brake caliper (incorporated with electronic parking), t27 toyota avensis d4d. 91 KW 124 HP

I have snapped the bolt. Now half of the screw is in the slide pin. 

I couldnt find torque spec of the 2 (rear caliper) slide pins screws.. foolish of me thinking it could be same as the caliper bracket screws (which is 102Nm), hence snapped it. 

Need help with these:

1. what are torque spec for the screw of the slider pin? 

2. what is the part number of the screw and slider pin (rear brake).

3. is it bad to add sime grease (like copper grease) to the screws to prevent cease (after i purchased the part) 

4. i just lube the slider pins with thick silicon grease (becos silicon won't damage rubber boots of the slider pin.

 

Question 1 and 2 are most important for now. thanks

i use copper grease for the whole break job on my car sliding pins and the wheel bolts and the break caliber bolts. when you said you have snapped the bolt head off well tbh you dont really need to be tighten those bolts that hard i just use what i think is hard enough and im fixing my own break job all my life. also when you said yoou broke the bolt im guessing when you broken the head off the bolt that took all the tension from the bolt you could maybe just screw the broken part out easy enough. there are kits on eBay that you can connect to your drill to take out broken bolts or screws there supposed to be good 

forgot to tell you think this is the answer to q 1 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333980549684

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/263521685905?hash=item3d5b1dd191:g:PgUAAOSwjDZYlK27

 

[Stivino]

Do you mean that you have snapped this bolt?

[andrewysk]

On 1/22/2022 at 5:28 PM, Stivino said:

Do you mean that you have snapped this bolt?

Sigh! yes, sadly i snapped this bold, do you know what is the Nm spec for this screw ?  I snapped the screw, not the sliding pin, pls don't mis understood me. 

Anyway, i manage to chisel out the snapped screw.. so, now i just need the screw.. 

 

[Stivino]

It’s a bolt, not a screw.

When you get a new bolt, don’t worry about the torque, just tighten it up FT with a spanner.

It’s an 8mm bolt (13mm head) so depending on the class of bolt it will either be 30Nm or 40Nm

Class 8.8 is 30Nm

Class 10.9 is 40Nm

The class number is usually stamped on the head of the bolt.

[andrewysk]

On 1/23/2022 at 11:55 AM, Stivino said:

It’s a bolt, not a screw.

When you get a new bolt, don’t worry about the torque, just tighten it up FT with a spanner.

It’s an 8mm bolt (13mm head) so depending on the class of bolt it will either be 30Nm or 40Nm

Class 8.8 is 30Nm

Class 10.9 is 40Nm

The class number is usually stamped on the head of the bolt.

Wonderful, thanks for the info, just what i needed. 

Yes, i am such a "perfectionist" (my bad character) that i like to follow to the spec.. (and in this case i can't find the spec, i just assumed and i assumed wrongly and paid price). 

[andrewysk]

On 1/22/2022 at 5:17 PM, 2009joe said:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333980549684

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/263521685905?hash=item3d5b1dd191:g:PgUAAOSwjDZYlK27

You used copper grease for every screws at brake assembly ? a lot of ppl told me NOT to use grease, least it loosen by itself after some milage due to vibration. 

By the way, what is the proper gease for the 2 sliding pins ? i use thick silicon grease (from Auto shop), it think it is good, but it is kind of heavy, might cause slider pin not slide so freely as i would like..  Don't get me wrong, it slides well with heavy thick silicon grease, but you know when thick and heavy grease, it tend to not slide so freely ... so the question is , it is ok just to use thick silicon grease or i should change it to the grease purposely formulated for slider pin ? 

I could have use my other heavy duty bearing grease (which is green thick grease too), but i scare it might melt the rubber boot in long run. 

[Stivino]

Copper grease is not grease, it’s an anti-seize compound.

When I build brakes, I use nothing.  When a new car is delivered, the brakes are not covered in grease or any other lubricant.

New condition is what you are trying to achieve when repairing brakes and If the job is done properly, nothing is needed.

New rear brakes

[andrewysk]

On 1/23/2022 at 11:55 AM, Stivino said:

It’s a bolt, not a screw.

When you get a new bolt, don’t worry about the torque, just tighten it up FT with a spanner.

It’s an 8mm bolt (13mm head) so depending on the class of bolt it will either be 30Nm or 40Nm

Class 8.8 is 30Nm

Class 10.9 is 40Nm

The class number is usually stamped on the head of the bolt.

What is the different between bolt and screw  anyway ?  i do believe it is  bolt and nut.. hence not screw.. but what is screw anyway ? 

This picture was taken from this url:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333980549684?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5336639749&toolid=10001&customid=2061X562073X87d46ab268e93f1d0f33f31a45eb7878

However these 2 are weird. I have take my slider pins out to service so many time, how come i never see this small rubber sleeve thing ? and this pin (the one i circled) has got a slot on it.. what is it ? How ever the other 2 sliding pins and bolts are identical to mine. 

Should i be worry about non OEM part ? because this eBay site does not say it is OEM.. could be china made ?  will it be reliable  for brake  ? 

Thx

[andrewysk]

24 minutes ago, Stivino said:

Copper grease is not grease, it’s an anti-seize compound.

When I build brakes, I use nothing.  When a new car is delivered, the brakes are not covered in grease or any other lubricant.

New condition is what you are trying to achieve when repairing brakes and If the job is done properly, nothing is needed.

New rear brakes

Ya, after i snapped the bolt, i started to believe grease in bolt is not a good idea..  but if no grease in it, sometime it got stuck.. so hard to take it out, might risk of ruin the bolt head or thread .. 

Should i remove the bolt and spray it down with brake cleaner to remove the grease ?  maybe a bit spray of wd-4d would be good enough (won't rust if water went in)

[Stivino]

The bolts won’t get stuck, the types metals used don’t stick to each other.

Just clean the bolts with a wire brush, if you give them a good brushing they will come up like new.

To keep it simple, bolts usually go into a nut or another threaded item.  Screws usually make their own thread.

[andrewysk]

1 minute ago, Stivino said:

The bolts won’t get stuck, the types metals used don’t stick to each other.

Just clean the bolts with a wire brush, if you give them a good brushing they will come up like new.

To keep it simple, bolts usually go into a nut or another threaded item.  Screws usually make their own thread.

Do you think i can use eBay spare parts  on brake (safety related) ? 

[Stivino]

As long as you buy from a reputable seller.

 I bought a caliper seal kit from a seller called Big Red and everything was good.

[2009joe]

2 hours ago, andrewysk said:

You used copper grease for every screws at brake assembly ? a lot of ppl told me NOT to use grease, least it loosen by itself after some milage due to vibration. 

By the way, what is the proper gease for the 2 sliding pins ? i use thick silicon grease (from Auto shop), it think it is good, but it is kind of heavy, might cause slider pin not slide so freely as i would like..  Don't get me wrong, it slides well with heavy thick silicon grease, but you know when thick and heavy grease, it tend to not slide so freely ... so the question is , it is ok just to use thick silicon grease or i should change it to the grease purposely formulated for slider pin ? 

I could have use my other heavy duty bearing grease (which is green thick grease too), but i scare it might melt the rubber boot in long run. 

yep i use copper grease for all the screws and the sliding pins plus the back of the brake pads that are up against the caliber housing .plus i also copper grease the new brake pads that come in contact with the caliber .when you get new pads if they are tight you should file down the part that comes in contact equal at the caliber slot as the new pads might be tight as i have found out threw my time doing my own breaks .but before putting any new pads in or discs or copper grease you should invest in a wire brushes even the ones that fit on a drill to clean up the caliber and the housing from dust and rust cleaning them up like new. tbh i never have to use any torque specs ever as tbh its common sence just to tighten them up enough not to over tighten them as tbh must have been under some crazy pressure to bust the screw .alos i always do my breaks as tbh the mechanic shop there is not enough money in it for them and well time either so they might skip cleaning the housing proper and copper greasing as much as if was yourself doing it. plus the last time i left my last car in to get brakes done the mechanic ripped my caliber piston rubber 😞 lets just say i was ****** off never again will i go to a mechanic for that but as i say its a real easy job to do no much thinking in it 

[AJones]

23 hours ago, andrewysk said:

2. what is the part number of the screw and slider pin (rear brake).

Have you tried some of the online parts websites? If you punch in your car details these will normally have brake caliper accessory kits available and some of these will include replacement slide-pins and bolts, giving you the OEM and 3rd party part numbers to get you started, the two below are generally pretty good for parts details:

www.buycarparts.co.uk

www.autodoc.co.uk

23 hours ago, andrewysk said:

3. is it bad to add sime grease (like copper grease) to the screws to prevent cease (after i purchased the part) 

To the slide pin bolts, the ones securing the slide pins to the caliper ? I definitely would NOT grease those bolts, because if you purchase new ones in an accessory kit you will find the threads often come painted with an abrasive thread-lock compound, presumably to reduce the risk  of them coming loose, so you don't want grease on those!

23 hours ago, andrewysk said:

4. i just lube the slider pins with thick silicon grease (becos silicon won't damage rubber boots of the slider pin.

I'd see if you can buy yourself an accessory kit, with new slide pins, bolts, rubber parts and these come with suitable high temperature grease. 

[Red_Corolla]

2 hours ago, andrewysk said:

What is the different between bolt and screw  anyway ?  i do believe it is  bolt and nut.. hence not screw.. but what is screw anyway ?

 

A bolt has a machined thread *and* a shank (a part with no thread) to locate the parts. Not as accurate as a dowel but does provide some location as well as clamping.

A machine screw is exactly like a bolt, but threaded all the way to the head, no shank. Used only for clamping, not for precisely locating the part being clamped. Doesn't matter what tool it fits, if the thread goes all the way to the head then it's a screw (often called a 'set screw').

The other type of screw is one that cuts it's own thread - these are self-tapping screws (for metal) and woodscrews (for wood - go figure!).

 

That's how I was taught, but we didn't all go to the same school, so opinions will vary ☺️

 

[andrewysk]

On 1/23/2022 at 2:09 PM, 2009joe said:

yep i use copper grease for all the screws and the sliding pins plus the back of the brake pads that are up against the caliber housing .plus i also copper grease the new brake pads that come in contact with the caliber .when you get new pads if they are tight you should file down the part that comes in contact equal at the caliber slot as the new pads might be tight as i have found out threw my time doing my own breaks .but before putting any new pads in or discs or copper grease you should invest in a wire brushes even the ones that fit on a drill to clean up the caliber and the housing from dust and rust cleaning them up like new. tbh i never have to use any torque specs ever as tbh its common sence just to tighten them up enough not to over tighten them as tbh must have been under some crazy pressure to bust the screw .alos i always do my breaks as tbh the mechanic shop there is not enough money in it for them and well time either so they might skip cleaning the housing proper and copper greasing as much as if was yourself doing it. plus the last time i left my last car in to get brakes done the mechanic ripped my caliber piston rubber 😞 lets just say i was ****** off never again will i go to a mechanic for that but as i say its a real easy job to do no much thinking in it 

Hii,

Thanks for all the tips. 
I normal do all those you mentioned above, such wire brush....
However i use heavy duty grease for all the contacting part so the pads slide well in slots
and I never found that i need to file the brake pad so far.. I used ATE and Brembo brake.. (one day, when brake disk worn out, i would want to use ceramic brake pad for a try)

On 1/23/2022 at 11:55 AM, Stivino said:

It’s an 8mm bolt (13mm head) so depending on the class of bolt it will either be 30Nm or 40Nm

Class 8.8 is 30Nm

Class 10.9 is 40Nm

The class number is usually stamped on the head of the bolt.

 

There is no number stamped on the head of the bolt. 

[2009joe]

26 minutes ago, andrewysk said:

Hii,

Thanks for all the tips. 
I normal do all those you mentioned above, such wire brush....
However i use heavy duty grease for all the contacting part so the pads slide well in slots
and I never found that i need to file the brake pad so far.. I used ATE and Brembo brake.. (one day, when brake disk worn out, i would want to use ceramic brake pad for a try)

 

 

 

 

There is no number stamped on the head of the bolt. 

 

Aye tbh if me I'd put on vice grips take that out find a bolt any bolt same size in legnth as one u have and if screws in do rightly .u thinking into it 2 much dude those jobs are easy the thing more important is if electric handbreak is not loosing center point other than that everything else is easy .tbh when comes 2 grease I just use the same grease for all as I have a big tub of copper grease 

[Stivino]

If there is nothing stamped on the head it is a bog standard 8.8 bolt.

This is the part number;  90105-10404 Toyota list it as a bolt as opposed to a screw.

[Stivino]

https://carlube.co.uk/product/copper-greasemulti-purpose/

“Copper Grease is a high performance lead-free anti-seize compound“ Those are the words of the manufacture.

There is nothing to be gained by putting that on your brakes, especially not on the back of the pads as there is nothing there to lubricate and nothing to seize.

It is a sure sign of an amateur job to see that on brakes.

 

[2009joe]

30 minutes ago, Stivino said:

https://carlube.co.uk/product/copper-greasemulti-purpose/

“Copper Grease is a high performance lead-free anti-seize compound“ Those are the words of the manufacture.

There is nothing to be gained by putting that on your brakes, especially not on the back of the pads as there is nothing there to lubricate and nothing to seize.

It is a sure sign of an amateur job to see that on brakes.

 

well the copper grease is what i bought as you have said and what it says on the tin high performance anti seize compound as the only and main part which is only important where this is to use is the sliding pins. anti seize in the description it there for people such as yourself so u know to use it as it will stop the pins from jamming in the calipers as i have seen this before to which was abnormal ware on the pads. plus il just have to say why to you in a easier way why i put it on the out SIDE CALIPER so as in the description again anti seize that is so that there will be movement in the outer pad and not later on be stuck to the caliber itself.have a nice day im hoping this is more simple for you to understand that.by the looks of it on here m8t we are all amateurs and who gives a **** if feel like that why dont you just go to the toyota dealers all the time 

[Stivino]

It isn't possible for the pad to get stuck to the caliper. 

And I have no need to use the main dealer.

Thanks for your kind words. 

[2009joe]

11 minutes ago, Stivino said:

It isn't possible for the pad to get stuck to the caliper. 

And I have no need to use the main dealer.

Thanks for your kind words. 

well im sure the way you are doing yours breaks u might have never came across that but well we dont buy bran new cars right  from the factory so others have changed pads before so i have seen pads stuck to calipers before thats why i change my breaks the way i do as in put copper grease on everything that i thing going to cause a problem and keep the break pads free and moving well.end of the day its who ever choice what to do uz can put nothing no grease what so ever on nothing but people are asking questions what they are doing as this is a forum and others can say what they do but end of the day its to the person who wants to do the brakes whatever way they wants .simples 

[Red_Corolla]

Joe, it's generally advised not to use coppaslip on guide pins because it's bad for rubber parts like the dust boots and sometimes the pins themselves are rubber sleeved. Silicone grease is the more popular recommendation, kinder to the rubber and better at keeping moisture out. Up to you pal, I'm not an expert it's just what I've picked up.

 

[2009joe]

21 minutes ago, Red_Corolla said:

Joe, it's generally advised not to use coppaslip on guide pins because it's bad for rubber parts like the dust boots and sometimes the pins themselves are rubber sleeved. Silicone grease is the more popular recommendation, kinder to the rubber and better at keeping moisture out. Up to you pal, I'm not an expert it's just what I've picked up.

 

what about this grease i have this also plus apart from the rubber on the slider pins thats is all the copper grease touches plus if they ever bbreak i will be for sure changing them im good that way about servicing things i use copper grease and i have this lithium grease also that i could put in the slider pins