Oil Level & burning

[LeeMills7]

Hi all,

I have an oldie - 2008 2 litre diesel. Since working from home has ended recently, I have been driving around 600 miles a week to and from work - I live in Wrexham and my job is in Manchester, although I have cut this down to less than half. I'm not keen on travelling 600 miles a week all the time.

I have noticed the car is burning quite a lot of oil. I think I've added around 3 litres this month alone. Is this normal? Or, are there any remedies to prevent or limit this?

Also, I wondered - if the oil level is at minimum, how much oil is required to bring it up to the maximum mark? I think this is 2 litres, but risk over-filling it. Does anybody have a rough idea how much this would be?

Thanks for reading,

Lee.

[Roy124]

Lee, that looks like 800 miles per litre. 

You don't say what milage you have done but at 30 000 miles per year I suspect over 100k.

My petrol Merc started to burn oil at that rate. I was advised to up to 20w50.  The car wasn't a smoker just long in the tooth.  A bonus was the sensor for the next oil change kept increasing the service interval. With at least an annual service I wasn't worried by going to 20k as all the oil had been changed in use 😊

Your burn therefore is probably not unusual. 

[crofts2007]

My 2007 2.0 diesel initially burned oil, this was semi synthetic 5W30

On the next service oil changed to full synthetic 5W30 and over the next 50k of ownership the consumption halved compared to semi synthetic. 

[LeeMills7]

Hey Roy,

Yes - you are correct, it's 109k. I've had the car for 4 years and I've done 39k in that time.

I'm using 5W-30 A5 Fully Synthetic Oil.

The warning flashed earlier today as it's on the minimum mark again; does anybody know how many litres to fill to the max mark? I tried 1 litre last time and I think that was only half of max.

Hi Crofts - thanks for replying. I'm currently using fully synthetic. Should I be concerned it's burning this much oil?

Thanks all,

Lee.

[crofts2007]

Personally, I'm not sure if it's an acceptable amount, but have you cleaned the EGR valve at any point?

Not sure if it helps consumption but on mine it perked the performance back up a bit. 

[Red_Corolla]

4 hours ago, crofts2007 said:

My 2007 2.0 diesel initially burned oil, this was semi synthetic 5W30

On the next service oil changed to full synthetic 5W30 and over the next 50k of ownership the consumption halved compared to semi synthetic. 

That's probably the quality oil slowly cleaning the gunk from around the piston rings.

Modern engines use low tension (i.e weak) piston rings to reduce frictional loss. The oil control rings can easily become gummed up and stuck if oil changes are neglected, then the consumption starts.

The trouble is, a litre of quality full synthetic every single week is quite significant in terms of cost. If it were me, I would probably stick with the Toyota spec in terms of grade but use an affordable brand.

Regarding the volume between min and max marks, it's usually something close to 1 litre for most cars.

 

[2009joe]

8 minutes ago, Red_Corolla said:

That's probably the quality oil slowly cleaning the gunk from around the piston rings.

Modern engines use low tension (i.e weak) piston rings to reduce frictional loss. The oil control rings can easily become gummed up and stuck if oil changes are neglected, then the consumption starts.

The trouble is, a litre of quality full synthetic every single week is quite significant in terms of cost. If it were me, I would probably stick with the Toyota spec in terms of grade but use an affordable brand.

Regarding the volume between min and max marks, it's usually something close to 1 litre for most cars.

 

when you taking about oil burn issues that was in the earlier  2.0 d4d engines like 08 09 things like that and the new bmw engines .i think the newer last 2.01adftv engines they put in before the bmw engine they fixed that problem as was down to the piston rings i think 

[Cyker]

IIRC it was piston rings and insufficient oil galleries in the piston heads. There was a post by CharlieFarlie that had everything you wanted to know about AD-series engines and oil consumption but I can't seem to find it (I swear it was pinned here or in the Rav forum )

Good to know it was mainly the 08/09 ones that had it, so these people in other posts looking at 2011 1AD's should be safe.

In the old days you could get away with using thicker oil to stave off the oil consumption, which I contemplated with my old Mk2 which was burning a litre of 0w20 a month, but with so many components driven by oil pressure and narrow oil galleys, I was worried doing so might cause problems somewhere else...!

 

[LeeMills7]

Hi all,

 

Thanks for the replies; I will get the EGR Valve cleaned and see if that helps. In addition, I'll purchase Toyota spec oil and see how it goes.

 

Thanks again,

 

Lee.

[LeeMills7]

Hi all,

 

Not sure if you'll see this post of mine but I thought I would post a quick update.

 

I've recently noticed a lot of black smoke out of the exhaust; earlier today, I joined a dual carriageway from a a parking area and revved quite high - a hell of a lot of black smoke.

 

The care has done 112k miles; I've recently started putting in regular diesel from Texaco (never used supermarket fuel) and wondered if this might have something to do with it?

 

I haven't done much with cars in my life, so have no idea where to begin dealing with this issue; can you offer some advice or pointers on how to deal with the issue please?

 

Thanks for reading,

 

Lee.

[Stivino]

I've used supermarket fuel for the last 30 years and never had a problem.

[LeeMills7]

Hi all,

If anyone is ever reading this post, I'd thought I'd post another update - and I suspect this will be the last post.

I spoke to a mechanic this morning and he said the black some is carbon - not oil. I explained I didn't take the car over 3,000 rpm and he said that was the problem. Diesel engines are designed to be 'hammered' - hence their use in trains and lorries. So he recommended I take the care up to 4,000rpm before changing gear. He also suggested not really using 6th gear all the time.

An hour later of giving the car a bit of a hard time - no more black smoke. The mechanic believed this will reduce oil consumption and better fuel economy.

Anyway, thanks for your time and hope the info is helpful for anyone that didn't know.

 

Lee.

[Cyker]

It's not so much that they're 'designed to be hammered' - You can drive it in 6th at virtually idle, but the problem is the engine will stay stone cold, and THAT is the problem.

Diesel engines are happiest when they are heavily loaded - This is why they work great in lorries and people carriers and big heavy cars: All that load makes them work hard and they get good and hot - Hot enough to burn off carbon and regen the DPF.

I used to just take my Mk1 Yaris diesel on a random countryside hoon if it started feeling a bit sluggish, maybe even dropping in a tank of Shell V-Power diesel in (That stuff is good for helping clean deposits from the fuel system and injectors, and burns cleaner because it's semi-synthetic fuel, but it's very expensive so I'd only use it ever 4 or so tanks!). Blasting that thing up and down hills gave the engine a good workout and you could really feel the improvement in engine responsiveness and torque afterwards!

Even just small changes, like accelerating from the lights a bit more aggressively and holding onto a gear longer when accelerating, help increase the load and heat on the engine. It does use more fuel, but you get that back when you settle down to cruise after accelerating, as a hot engine needs less fuel to run at a given speed.

This was a lot easier in the Yaris tho' as that had a very close-ratio gearbox. My bro's i30 diesel has really long gears and it's much less fun to give it the beans as there isn't enough overlap in the gears!

 

[2009joe]

3 hours ago, Cyker said:

It's not so much that they're 'designed to be hammered' - You can drive it in 6th at virtually idle, but the problem is the engine will stay stone cold, and THAT is the problem.

Diesel engines are happiest when they are heavily loaded - This is why they work great in lorries and people carriers and big heavy cars: All that load makes them work hard and they get good and hot - Hot enough to burn off carbon and regen the DPF.

I used to just take my Mk1 Yaris diesel on a random countryside hoon if it started feeling a bit sluggish, maybe even dropping in a tank of Shell V-Power diesel in (That stuff is good for helping clean deposits from the fuel system and injectors, and burns cleaner because it's semi-synthetic fuel, but it's very expensive so I'd only use it ever 4 or so tanks!). Blasting that thing up and down hills gave the engine a good workout and you could really feel the improvement in engine responsiveness and torque afterwards!

Even just small changes, like accelerating from the lights a bit more aggressively and holding onto a gear longer when accelerating, help increase the load and heat on the engine. It does use more fuel, but you get that back when you settle down to cruise after accelerating, as a hot engine needs less fuel to run at a given speed.

This was a lot easier in the Yaris tho' as that had a very close-ratio gearbox. My bro's i30 diesel has really long gears and it's much less fun to give it the beans as there isn't enough overlap in the gears!

 

quick question i bought a new autel 808 pro comes with dpf service function i am going to drive my car a good while on long runs then try this out but putting the car into 4000 rpms sure i think dieselcars not supposed to be put in that high of rpms i always when driving not bother with 5th gear just right into 6th and tbh goes from 300rpm 2 just crusing low revs in 6th . also i notice not matter if crusing or driving hard my car sits at half wat on the temp all the time  plus another quick question dont my dppf have a 5th injector in there so gets the heat up and burns the carbon 

[Cyker]

Yeah 4000rpm+ is not nice feeling in a diesel - My Mk1 redlined at 5.5krpm IIRC but I wouldn't take it past 4k unless I was using V-Power because it felt like the engine was about to jump out the bonnet otherwise  They can do it tho' - The redline is there for a reason, and as long as you don't exceed it it should be fine. (But deffo check your oil levels if you run at higher RPMs for extended periods; When I was hauling it to my bro's house and back in the Mk1 it would always use burn a bit more oil than usual!)

I found it wasn't just RPM, but also how much accelerator; It's better to be lower rpm and pressing the accelerator more, than high rpm and pressing it a little. This is more economical and also generates more heat as the engine has more force to work against.

The temp should be about half-way as that is optimal operating temp (Usually); The cooling system will try to stop it going any higher as too hot will damage the engine, so that's pretty normal. If it goes noticeably higher than that it can indicate a problem with the engine (Or it's a really really hot day and you're not moving fast enough  )

The 5th injector for the DPF just squirts diesel into the exhaust which hopefully burns and sets the soot in the DPF on fire, but it doesn't really help heat up the engine as most of that heat goes out the exhaust. It won't burn the carbon in the cylinders or injectors.

 

[2009joe]

7 minutes ago, Cyker said:

Yeah 4000rpm+ is not nice feeling in a diesel - My Mk1 redlined at 5.5krpm IIRC but I wouldn't take it past 4k unless I was using V-Power because it felt like the engine was about to jump out the bonnet otherwise  They can do it tho' - The redline is there for a reason, and as long as you don't exceed it it should be fine. (But deffo check your oil levels if you run at higher RPMs for extended periods; When I was hauling it to my bro's house and back in the Mk1 it would always use burn a bit more oil than usual!)

I found it wasn't just RPM, but also how much accelerator; It's better to be lower rpm and pressing the accelerator more, than high rpm and pressing it a little. This is more economical and also generates more heat as the engine has more force to work against.

The temp should be about half-way as that is optimal operating temp (Usually); The cooling system will try to stop it going any higher as too hot will damage the engine, so that's pretty normal. If it goes noticeably higher than that it can indicate a problem with the engine (Or it's a really really hot day and you're not moving fast enough  )

The 5th injector for the DPF just squirts diesel into the exhaust which hopefully burns and sets the soot in the DPF on fire, but it doesn't really help heat up the engine as most of that heat goes out the exhaust. It won't burn the carbon in the cylinders or injectors.

 

think il just drivr my 2014 car the way i am and tbh i see no oil burn on my car what so ever and its got 47k on it now so tbh shes fresh. i might later on in the years take off the intake manifold and clean it out but i still might put my autel scanner on it and perform a dpf service on it maybe just one as i dont want any problems to happen at least i will know that the car went threw a full dpf regen as tbh i dont see any difference when the car dos it on its own as i cant tell 

[LeeMills7]

On 3/28/2022 at 6:38 PM, Cyker said:

It's not so much that they're 'designed to be hammered' - You can drive it in 6th at virtually idle, but the problem is the engine will stay stone cold, and THAT is the problem.

Diesel engines are happiest when they are heavily loaded - This is why they work great in lorries and people carriers and big heavy cars: All that load makes them work hard and they get good and hot - Hot enough to burn off carbon and regen the DPF.

I used to just take my Mk1 Yaris diesel on a random countryside hoon if it started feeling a bit sluggish, maybe even dropping in a tank of Shell V-Power diesel in (That stuff is good for helping clean deposits from the fuel system and injectors, and burns cleaner because it's semi-synthetic fuel, but it's very expensive so I'd only use it ever 4 or so tanks!). Blasting that thing up and down hills gave the engine a good workout and you could really feel the improvement in engine responsiveness and torque afterwards!

Even just small changes, like accelerating from the lights a bit more aggressively and holding onto a gear longer when accelerating, help increase the load and heat on the engine. It does use more fuel, but you get that back when you settle down to cruise after accelerating, as a hot engine needs less fuel to run at a given speed.

This was a lot easier in the Yaris tho' as that had a very close-ratio gearbox. My bro's i30 diesel has really long gears and it's much less fun to give it the beans as there isn't enough overlap in the gears!

 

Thanks for this Cyker - very helpful information and expanded upon my limited knowledge.

I've had to take the car in to the garage because while setting off, there was still black smoke coming from the exhaust. I don't think it's a major problem but it won't go away, no matter how hard I drive the car.

I'll keep posting here if people find it beneficial.

Thanks again,

 

Lee.