PHEV... 500 mile round trip tomorrow. Any tips on maximising mpg?

[Toomanytoys]

Biggest problem for me is I tend to drive long distances.. current commute is 64 each way.. prev done an 85 each way on a very regular basis..

The longer trips are from my workshop to my partner's which is 120.. but rarely a return trip the same day.. 

The "office" is 140 miles away, but i rarely go there..

Some days can be a 300 mile trip which then becomes an issue with the EV's..

[ernieb]

4 minutes ago, Toomanytoys said:

Biggest problem for me is I tend to drive long distances.. current commute is 64 each way.. prev done an 85 each way on a very regular basis..

The longer trips are from my workshop to my partner's which is 120.. but rarely a return trip the same day.. 

The "office" is 140 miles away, but i rarely go there..

Some days can be a 300 mile trip which then becomes an issue with the EV's..

That would certainly be an issue even if it was 200 miles in the winter, unless you’d be prepared to find a charger and sit and wait for an hour. Which based on your earlier comments would not likely be the case. Based on the current availability of BEV’s your best route is HEV or PHEV.

[Roy124]

Ernieb, even if only apprimate, that is impressive. 

The press reports that business users buy PHEV for tax benefits but then don't bother plugging in is absurd, if true. 

[Lawnmowerman]

7 hours ago, ernieb said:

 

I regularly charge mine and most of my local mileage is on EV, interestingly the MyT app reports that since I’ve owned the car May ‘21 and 6k+ miles that the overall equivalent mpg, petrol+EV, is 117mpg?

Purchased 30th September and 5,463 miles since. Didn't have external charging available for about 6-8 weeks initially until I had an external 13 amp socket fitted (same as Ernie's).

Driving analytics gives average under same conditions as 94.4 mpg with a driving score of 90.

Not in a hurry now - done all that (had access to all the GTI's, Quattros, Porsches, Cosworth's, Bentley Turbo R etc. in my career). But I do like having the capability to surprise others (and myself) when necessary 😇.

[Roy124]

The problem now is waiting until Toyota make what I want 😊

[Flatcoat]

7 hours ago, Roy124 said:

Ernieb, even if only apprimate, that is impressive. 

The press reports that business users buy PHEV for tax benefits but then don't bother plugging in is absurd, if true. 

It is which is why the grant was withdrawn a couple of years ago. What are incentive is there for a company car driver to charge their car? 

[Nick72]

11 hours ago, Toomanytoys said:

Yeah, my thoughts are similar.. need a 350+ quoted range to get the desired/required 200+

At the mo (next 5 months) I can plug in at work.. after that, I won't know till I know where I am working.. can't plug in at home (no off road parking but have a Tesco 2 min walk away with points) and can't realistically plug in at my workshop as it's on a pay as go system from my landlord. So I am reliant on public charging points.. 

As been said, chargers seem quite unreliable...

So PHEV is looking likely.. if the BIK etc works out.. 

Otherwise it may have to be a cheapy small car and continue with claiming the mileage allowance.. 

With a R4P I guess that'll mean you are running a hybrid most of the time with opportunistic charging at supermarkets etc assuming you can't trail a granny charger (comes with the car) to it. Word of warning though, all the chargers at our local supermarkets are always full unless you get there first thing in a morning at a weekend but then what are you going to do for 2.5 hours when it is charging? Could be a bind. 

Otherwise you're towing around 400kg of Battery and motors.

Worth weighing that up with the regular hybrid.  Comparing tax and running costs.

[Nick72]

8 hours ago, Toomanytoys said:

Biggest problem for me is I tend to drive long distances.. current commute is 64 each way.. prev done an 85 each way on a very regular basis..

The longer trips are from my workshop to my partner's which is 120.. but rarely a return trip the same day.. 

The "office" is 140 miles away, but i rarely go there..

Some days can be a 300 mile trip which then becomes an issue with the EV's..

Don't think a BEV will work for you. The real winter motorway range issue and the need to charge at home is essential. 

[Nick72]

8 hours ago, Roy124 said:

Ernieb, even if only apprimate, that is impressive. 

The press reports that business users buy PHEV for tax benefits but then don't bother plugging in is absurd, if true. 

I got it for tax reasons. In essence I was paying a third less because of it. 50k car for 33k. And needed something solid, reliable, AWD, good size. The power was a big added bonus.

But, because most of my miles are short personal trips I plug it in. Saves me a lot of money. Long trips tend to be business where I get my fuel costs back based on an ICE over 2 litres! So that is another bonus. Add in the electric mileage into that too which still gets reimbursed as petrol over 2 litre again.

 

Complete no brainer. But I can see why some business users don't plug it in if they have a different mileage reimbursement system in place. No incentive. ...should be an environmental incentive for sure including pollution in urban settings but some folk don't care.

[Nick72]

2 hours ago, Lawnmowerman said:

Purchased 30th September and 5,463 miles since. Didn't have external charging available for about 6-8 weeks initially until I had an external 13 amp socket fitted (same as Ernie's).

Driving analytics gives average under same conditions as 94.4 mpg with a driving score of 90.

Not in a hurry now - done all that (had access to all the GTI's, Quattros, Porsches, Cosworth's, Bentley Turbo R etc. in my career). But I do like having the capability to surprise others (and myself) when necessary 😇.

Nothing beats a sleeper car. Several BMWs right up my back side in the outside lane as I was overtaking others. Then just put your foot down as you pull in and they were a distant twinkle of light in a few seconds.

[Nick72]

1 hour ago, Flatcoat said:

It is which is why the grant was withdrawn a couple of years ago. What are incentive is there for a company car driver to charge their car? 

Please see my reply to another comment. It depends how your fuel is reimbursed and personal mileage. I'm significantly incentivised on economic grounds. Although I'd still do for environmental reasons, good corporate citizen reasons (save the business money), and because I like electric driving.

[Flatcoat]

Nick, Unfortunately in my experience far too many EV and PHEV buyers are virtue signallers. Just look on some of the EV forums and Facebook pages at all the whinging at rising costs of charging their cars, loss of free charging locations, reduction in tax incentives. Why does anyone so allegedly concerned about the environment need a financial incentive? I am quite honest, I ran a diesel for over 35 years because of the economy and latterly because of the towing. I bought the RAV PHEV for the same reasons and to circumvent the ill informed anti diesel attitudes. I do not get any business mileage or tax benefits. I personally believe EV’s in their current form are a dead end and synthetic fuels and hydrogen are ignored by clueless politicians. 

[Roy124]

Flatcoat, I think virtue signalling as a green wish.  The majority go green if it saves them money and that applies to just about anything. 

[Flatcoat]

I was being ironic…. 

[Roy124]

32 minutes ago, Flatcoat said:

I was being ironic…. 

So? 😂

[Nick72]

15 hours ago, Flatcoat said:

Nick, Unfortunately in my experience far too many EV and PHEV buyers are virtue signallers. Just look on some of the EV forums and Facebook pages at all the whinging at rising costs of charging their cars, loss of free charging locations, reduction in tax incentives. Why does anyone so allegedly concerned about the environment need a financial incentive? I am quite honest, I ran a diesel for over 35 years because of the economy and latterly because of the towing. I bought the RAV PHEV for the same reasons and to circumvent the ill informed anti diesel attitudes. I do not get any business mileage or tax benefits. I personally believe EV’s in their current form are a dead end and synthetic fuels and hydrogen are ignored by clueless politicians. 

I'd agree at this point in time but within 10 years we are facing a minimum of a 3 fold specific energy increase in Battery technology and for lower cost. At the same time specific power for electric motors is also increasing by a factor of 3. All this means cheaper, much longer range,  nor powerful, lighter cars. That's the nail in ther coffin for synthetic fuels in cars,  and hydrogen.  The main argument for hydrogen has been sustainability given the rare earths issue but the tech is evolving towards alternative chemistry.

It's an inevitability, but for now EVs are a problem. 

[Flatcoat]

7 minutes ago, Nick72 said:

I'd agree at this point in time but within 10 years we are facing a minimum of a 3 fold specific energy increase in battery technology and for lower cost. At the same time specific power for electric motors is also increasing by a factor of 3. All this means cheaper, much longer range,  nor powerful, lighter cars. That's the nail in ther coffin for synthetic fuels in cars,  and hydrogen.  The main argument for hydrogen has been sustainability given the rare earths issue but the tech is evolving towards alternative chemistry.

It's an inevitability, but for now EVs are a problem. 

Sorry but being polite that’s simply Wishful thinking…. How do you increase the power of an electric motor 300% and what is that measured against? And if that is the case why the rush to go EV now? Why not wait until the technology is here? Another few years using oil will make little difference. The very fact this policy is pushed by politicians and clueless civil servants who have no idea how the world lives and works is in itself the reason it will fail. 

[TonyFR]

I can't agree that "Another few years using oil will make little difference".  It will, for the worse.

I used to believe the hydrogen route was best and in many ways wish it still was - as still believes our Great Maker Toyota. But EV sales are thriving now (in rich countries) and there is a huge momentum for building charging infrastructure. I am not an engineer but I do believe that BEVs will become far more efficient in the next few years. Right now the PHEV is a practical solution to remove eliminate range anxiety and make long trips practical while still giving the (real) enjoyment of electric motoring for most trips.

[Flatcoat]

On a worldwide context How will little UK not using oil a few more years change the planet when China opens a coal fired power station every week? Bangladesh is building 30 coal fired power stations? EV sales are thriving with rich buyers in rich countries. I am not against EV as a form of traction and I am not a climate change denier. The weather and climate has and always will change and burning coal and oil has consequences. However driving a petrol engined car for a few years while more practical and sustainable alternative fuels are sourced will not make any difference to a changing climate. It is like the head in the sand nuclear free zones of the past, They didn’t stop fallout from Chernobyl….. 

[Roy124]

Tony, PHEV, I wish, but Toyota seems to be well behind the curve with just one PHEV and no EV.  Will they loose out to people happy to switch now? 

Their one PHEV and the coming EV are in a much higher price band than what seems like its core market - based on observations in this Forum. 

[Toomanytoys]

Trouble is.. us driving our cars isn't the main factor, like it's being drummed into us..  as mentioned, new coal fired power stations ain't gonna help.. industry, plastic pollution etc etc etc.. pretty much anything we do is a contributor...

But also volcanic activity over the last 200 years has significantly increased..  even if you take the last 100 years.. nobody mentions that and how much "pollution" (Inc CO2 and all the other stuff) they contribute..  are we going to cap off volcanoes??  Er.. nope (tongue in cheek)

Transport and the motorist is an easy target for governments to apply guilt and taxes to.. 

Car manufacturers still want to make money by selling cars, as mentioned, keeping one already built, maintained and going, is environmentally better..

As said, if you have a spare 25-100k and you don't really need to do long distances, BEV will prob be fine.. but with the UK average wage of 25k (last i heard) and the cost of living rising alarmingly, how can the "average" person get into a BEV or even HV.... (Rhetorical question). 

Yes.. I agree we are damaging our planet and it's going to bite us in our backsides (already is). and I feel sorry for my kids (early 20's) that are prob going to see things getting a lot worse and probably no better in there lifetime..

I don't think it's viable for me to purchase a PHEV presently.. (let alone a BEV) the very significant cost and I think very limited environmental saving (with my current situation and PHEV availability)

It's probably more environmentally prudent for me to purchase a small "cleaner" economical car that's still got plenty of life in it and use that for the commuting... I can do a lot of environmentally positive decisions on other things (like the home etc etc) with the £45k saving over a new Rav4 PHEV

 

 

 

 

[Cyker]

I stopped paying attention to that ever since I was 'tricked' into getting a diesel for it's eco-friendliness only for them to later U-turn and declare it was the cause of all that is evil and that I'm responsible for x amount of deaths a year from pollution and would have to pay yet another daily charge to drive it.

I switched to a Mk2 petrol Yaris to avoid the charge, but it broke, and I recently got a Mk4 Yaris to replace that, blowing most of the money I was saving for an EV (And a house... but fat chance of that in London now!), and have now found out that because so many people got less polluting cars, our scumbag mayor wasn't able to extract enough money out of us so he's now decided just to charge everyone £2 to drive anywhere in London, while still crooning on about it being for the environment! Makes me sick just thinking about it.

Worse yet, the figures say we're actually well on-track for bringing down most pollutants, except for NOx... and the main source of that is diesel taxi's and busses because everything else that was a contributor has already been fined into submission! But of course they get a free pass. And it's okay for him to travel around in a diesel landrover, no bicycle or public transport for him! The hypocrisy is sickening. 

It feels like every scheme they've implemented that was claimed to be for the sake of the environment has turned out to be just a thinly veiled cash-grab or just lip-service that has actually made pollution worse.

It's better to pick a vehicle based on how well it will be at it's intended purpose, i.e. transportation. Environmental credentials are far down my list of criteria vs e.g. running costs

 

[Toomanytoys]

Sorry if I set you off there...

Yep.. Birmingham (where I currently am with my partner) is currently turning the screws.. 

Somebody once said, "only things guaranteed in life are death and taxes"

I shall have to search out a suitable decent quality durable small car to fit the bill. (Been looking at Yaris as it happens)

[Cyker]

It's okay, I am incoherently angry with that man right now and it's good to vent!

Can give double thumbs up for the Mk4 Yaris - It does have downsides; Is very expensive, the seats (in higher models at least) are awful (Or they're designed for someone who has a different spinal shape to mine apparently!), has the worst visibility of any Yaris I've ever owned and isn't really that small any more (To me, small is like a Mk1 Yaris, an Aygo, a Fiat 500 etc... this is small like a modern Mini or Polo is small  ).

But it's awesome to drive, is probably the highest real-world mpg mass-produced vehicle on the planet right now (Ignoring those cheating PHEVs who don't count the electricity used in their mpg figures! ), moves like sh-err poop off a plough at the lights and has near EV-like accelerator response at all speeds, vastly improved handling (Still not Fiesta-levels but not far off!) and with the radar cruise and steer assist it can almost drive itself when you get into boring traffic or motorway sections  

I must admit I had planned to pick one up 2nd hand in 3 or so years time when the price had come down but then the stupid ULEZ extension happened, and the Mk2 I'd got for that committed suicide, so decided to bite the bullet and break my rule about buying a car new. Even the pain of dropping all that extra money and the less-than stellar dealer experience, it hasn't taken the shine off the car for me because I find it so awesome.   (In fact, with the way 2nd hand prices are going I'm kinda glad I didn't wait!)

 

[Mikw]

2 hours ago, Toomanytoys said:

Sorry if I set you off there...

Yep.. Birmingham (where I currently am with my partner) is currently turning the screws.. 

Somebody once said, "only things guaranteed in life are death and taxes"

I shall have to search out a suitable decent quality durable small car to fit the bill. (Been looking at Yaris as it happens)

I can recommend the Mk4 Yaris. Go for the Design trim though, the seats are the most comfortable, and you get most of the toys on it.

Also, according to most reviews, the ride is more forgiving too.